fleckneymike Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 This site looks at the Premiership and presents finding on shots per game vs shots per goal as well as shots faced and shots faced per goal. We fall into the following categories Attack - ineffectual Defence - Pushovers http://experimental361.com/2015/03/29/premier-league-attack-defence-update/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Railway Man Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Glad I read that, I was under the impression being bottom we had a rock solid defence and an innovative attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 29 March 2015 Author Share Posted 29 March 2015 Glad I read that, I was under the impression being bottom we had a rock solid defence and an innovative attack. Shows some fine margins for Palace and how profligate QPR are in attack. Also illustrate how good Southampton have been in defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Railway Man Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Shows some fine margins for Palace and how profligate QPR are in attack. Also illustrate how good Southampton have been in defence. Probably actually backs up the 'fine margins' argument really in depth, Southampton are in the fight for fourth so I think it's fair to assume they'll be defence in defence and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Well dudoy, we are bottom of the league and were always going to be tending towards the bottom anyway. The "unlucky" tag comes from refereeing decisions not goals for/against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 This site looks at the Premiership and presents finding on shots per game vs shots per goal as well as shots faced and shots faced per goal. We fall into the following categories Attack - ineffectual Defence - Pushovers http://experimental361.com/2015/03/29/premier-league-attack-defence-update/ That's hardly surprising, we are bottom of league after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teblin Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 This site looks at the Premiership and presents finding on shots per game vs shots per goal as well as shots faced and shots faced per goal. We fall into the following categories Attack - ineffectual Defence - Pushovers http://experimental361.com/2015/03/29/premier-league-attack-defence-update/ The luck is more in terms of decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Shows some fine margins for Palace and how profligate QPR are in attack. Also illustrate how good Southampton have been in defence. If our game against QPR is anything to go by they shoot every time they cross the halfway line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 If a player tries something good but it's not executed well then I might express "ahh that's unlucky", but in terms of missing a one on one then "unlucky" doesn't come into it, it's the lack of ability to finish there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 I don't think Nigel's 'fine margins' comments have been aimed purely at refereeing decisions at all. And the suggestion that our luck has been poor with referees really is a very cheap excuse, turned to routinely by either the desperate, or the likes of Mourinho and Ferguson who are eager for refs to be pressured into giving them the benefit of the doubt. In our last two games we've had one ref who favoured us massively, and another who gave a critical decision against us, arguably correctly. If I were pushed I'd say more key decisions have gone against us this season than in our favour, but on a long, long list of reasons for us being where we are, it's not especially high up. Even with last week's Nugent incident, I'd propose that having a centre forward filling in in the right back slot, taking a second touch under pressure in the box rather than doing what they tell you at Primary School and hoofing it clear at the first time of asking, would be a bigger problem for us than a referee looking at the incident and making what many pundits and many of our own fans considered to be the right decision. Naturally when you're bottom you focus more on decisions that have gone against you than the ones which have gone in your favour. If you're under a lot of pressure at the back, naturally you're giving referees more decisions to make and there will be more critical decisions for referees to make. But the 'fine margins' which have dictated our current predicament are more those highlighted in the OP, which really aren't exceptionally fine at all, or - perhaps - how we react to getting into good positions in games, rather than the sort of substandard refereeing which has, at various points, screwed every team in the division at some point this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 29 March 2015 Author Share Posted 29 March 2015 I don't think Nigel's 'fine margins' comments have been aimed purely at refereeing decisions at all. And the suggestion that our luck has been poor with referees really is a very cheap excuse, turned to routinely by either the desperate, or the likes of Mourinho and Ferguson who are eager for refs to be pressured into giving them the benefit of the doubt. In our last two games we've had one ref who favoured us massively, and another who gave a critical decision against us, arguably correctly. If I were pushed I'd say more key decisions have gone against us this season than in our favour, but on a long, long list of reasons for us being where we are, it's not especially high up. Even with last week's Nugent incident, I'd propose that having a centre forward filling in in the right back slot, taking a second touch under pressure in the box rather than doing what they tell you at Primary School and hoofing it clear at the first time of asking, would be a bigger problem for us than a referee looking at the incident and making what many pundits and many of our own fans considered to be the right decision. Naturally when you're bottom you focus more on decisions that have gone against you than the ones which have gone in your favour. If you're under a lot of pressure at the back, naturally you're giving referees more decisions to make and there will be more critical decisions for referees to make. But the 'fine margins' which have dictated our current predicament are more those highlighted in the OP, which really aren't exceptionally fine at all, or - perhaps - how we react to getting into good positions in games, rather than the sort of substandard refereeing which has, at various points, screwed every team in the division at some point this season. There is a curious reluctance to engage with failure on here. We seem fixated on small issues within matches to justify postitions (both for and against) yet big issues are deemed too 'obvious' to discuss. West Ham have faced marginally less shots that us yet they deal with them so much better. In terms of shots faced per goal conceded the article shows that Newcastle and Spurs are worse. Even Stoke concede as many per shots faced as us, yet crucially they don't face as many shots. If we can't improve the standard of our keeper and defence could we try and emulate Stoke or West Ham's 'tactics' in order to reduce the amounts of shots faced? Surely playing 5 at the back merely encourages opponents to 'shoot' rather than keeping them away from our goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Perfectly possible to be both wasteful and unfortunate. The two are not mutually exclusive. You're also ignoring decisions as previously mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Still don't get my head around why some seem to think that refereeing hasn't played its part. Everyone knows it has. No-one's claimed it's the main or only reason we're down there but we've had some absolutely horrific luck go against us with referees all season. Fine margins I think isn't totally wide of the mark either - that doesn't change the fact they are biggest moments of a game that we keep bottling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 The main problem all season has been the midfield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Still don't get my head around why some seem to think that refereeing hasn't played its part. Everyone knows it has. No-one's claimed it's the main or only reason we're down there but we've had some absolutely horrific luck go against us with referees all season. Fine margins I think isn't totally wide of the mark either - that doesn't change the fact they are biggest moments of a game that we keep bottling. You prat. You contradict your post all the way through. If we had (a) a solid defense, (b) a creative midfield, © strikers who could finish without bottling OR (d) an effective manager the few reffing decisions which have beef dodgy would be immaterial. Horrific luck all season? Do you actually go to Games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 You prat. You contradict your post all the way through. If we had (a) a solid defense, (b) a creative midfield, © strikers who could finish without bottling OR (d) an effective manager the few reffing decisions which have beef dodgy would be immaterial. Horrific luck all season? Do you actually go to Games? If only we had Chelsea's team and manager. Surely then we would survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 29 March 2015 Share Posted 29 March 2015 Any one of those four would have seen us safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishOxide Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 You prat. You contradict your post all the way through. If we had (a) a solid defense, (b) a creative midfield, © strikers who could finish without bottling OR (d) an effective manager the few reffing decisions which have beef dodgy would be immaterial. Horrific luck all season? Do you actually go to Games? How can you come across so superior when you yourself are so spectacularly wrong? I take it you don't go to games? Nuge 'foul' vs Spurs Two penalties given against us at Liverpool One goal away to United which should have been ruled offside Kramaric wrongly booked for diving at home vs Stoke Kramaric again denied stonewaller against Spurs at 2-2 Konchesky sent off vs Villa whilst Hutton got off scot free (was rescinded). Those are just refereeing decisions off the top of my head. I'm struggling to think of occasions when such bad officiating has gone in our favour this season. Maybe Vardy going over for the pen at home to United was soft and maybe Mahrez has 'bought' a free kick or two. Then there's the following bits of bad luck or misfortune however you want to look at it; Cambiasso has missed a couple of open goals Nuge keeps hitting the post and missing sitters Schluup misses sitters A few deflected own goals (Morgan, Schluup, Huth) Burnley being GIFTED 4 points by Man City with comical defending from Kompany, Fernando and Hart. The goal in the 2-2 draw was an outrageous deflection iirc. Villa being GIFTED a penalty and win in the 90th minute vs WBA with comical goalkeeping from Ben Foster. Hitting the woodwork 3 times at home to Spurs and losing 2-1 to their only 2 shots. Now, again I'm struggling for occasions when we have had a bit of fortune. Hull away certainly we rode our luck. Everton away we were fortunate Lukaku was so wasteful. That's all I can think of. Where's our goal that deflected off the arse of 3 players and into the top corner? Throw into the mix individual errors like Kaspers positioning for the Burnley equalizer and Liam Moore not properly marking Clarke vs Villa away and its not hard to see that all that together has resulted in us not picking up points. Now I know what you are going to say. This happens to all teams and it evens itself out. That's nonsense. We are 29 games into the season and there is no sign of it letting up. We are fu*king cursed. I'm also, like the guy you quoted, not suggesting that these are the sole reasons that we are where we are. But I defy anybody who thinks it hasn't had an affect and that we, as the club with only the second lowest wage bill in the league, should be mid table in spite of it all. Its not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 How can you come across so superior when you yourself are so spectacularly wrong? I take it you don't go to games? Nuge 'foul' vs Spurs Two penalties given against us at Liverpool One goal away to United which should have been ruled offside Kramaric wrongly booked for diving at home vs Stoke Kramaric again denied stonewaller against Spurs at 2-2 Konchesky sent off vs Villa whilst Hutton got off scot free (was rescinded). Those are just refereeing decisions off the top of my head. I'm struggling to think of occasions when such bad officiating has gone in our favour this season. Maybe Vardy going over for the pen at home to United was soft and maybe Mahrez has 'bought' a free kick or two. Then there's the following bits of bad luck or misfortune however you want to look at it; Cambiasso has missed a couple of open goals Nuge keeps hitting the post and missing sitters Schluup misses sitters A few deflected own goals (Morgan, Schluup, Huth) Burnley being GIFTED 4 points by Man City with comical defending from Kompany, Fernando and Hart. The goal in the 2-2 draw was an outrageous deflection iirc. Villa being GIFTED a penalty and win in the 90th minute vs WBA with comical goalkeeping from Ben Foster. Hitting the woodwork 3 times at home to Spurs and losing 2-1 to their only 2 shots. Now, again I'm struggling for occasions when we have had a bit of fortune. Hull away certainly we rode our luck. Everton away we were fortunate Lukaku was so wasteful. That's all I can think of. Where's our goal that deflected off the arse of 3 players and into the top corner? Throw into the mix individual errors like Kaspers positioning for the Burnley equalizer and Liam Moore not properly marking Clarke vs Villa away and its not hard to see that all that together has resulted in us not picking up points. Now I know what you are going to say. This happens to all teams and it evens itself out. That's nonsense. We are 29 games into the season and there is no sign of it letting up. We are fu*king cursed. I'm also, like the guy you quoted, not suggesting that these are the sole reasons that we are where we are. But I defy anybody who thinks it hasn't had an affect and that we, as the club with only the second lowest wage bill in the league, should be mid table in spite of it all. Its not possible. the thing is, if just one of those decisions goes in our favour. It could have transformed our season. A victory against villa or liverpool, would have ended that run much earlier and we might of gotten better results in the following games also. Luck has had an effect on our season, has it defined it, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 Those are just refereeing decisions off the top of my head. I'm struggling to think of occasions when such bad officiating has gone in our favour this season. Maybe Vardy going over for the pen at home to United was soft and maybe Mahrez has 'bought' a free kick or two. Or the ball going out before the cross or or or... It does balance itself out. Huge making last ditch tackles in the box... Madness and has pen written all over it. Then there's the following bits of bad luck or misfortune however you want to look at it; Cambiasso has missed a couple of open goals Bad luck or poor play?? Nuge keeps hitting the post and missing sitters How is that misfortune or bad luck you tit? It's striker not hitting the target. Luck doesn't come in to it. Schluup misses sitters See above A few deflected own goals (Morgan, Schluup, Which an organized defense may have avoided... See last ditch defending point and lack of organization Burnley being GIFTED 4 points by Man City with comical defending from Kompany, Fernando and Hart. The goal in the 2-2 draw was an outrageous deflection iirc. How old are you? If we'd have done man c you'd be crowing about how brilliant we were. To say it's bad luck that a better team than us beat man c is purile. And in any way, it's no different to the Three points United gifted us with their defending and a crap ref, is it? Villa being GIFTED a penalty and win in the 90th minute vs WBA with comical goalkeeping from Ben Foster. See above point Hitting the woodwork 3 times at home to Spurs and losing 2-1 to their only 2 shots. Hitting the woodwork = missing the target. Not bad luck. It's not as if they move around, is it? Now, again I'm struggling for occasions when we have had a bit of fortune. Hull away certainly we rode our luck. Everton away we were fortunate Lukaku was so wasteful. That's all I can think of. Where's our goal that deflected off the arse of 3 players and into the top corner? Our biggest bit of fortune? Not getting hammered week in week out because the oppo strikers miss open goals too. We are bottom for a reason. This is the worst epl in history and we're stinking it up. Throw into the mix individual errors like Kaspers positioning for the Burnley equalizer and Liam Moore not properly marking Clarke vs Villa away and its not hard to see that all that together has resulted in us not picking up points. Kaspers done more than that wrong... Poor play is costing us, not bad luck. Now I know what you are going to say. This happens to all teams and it evens itself out. That's nonsense. We are 29 games into the season and there is no sign of it letting up. We are fu*king cursed. Deluded. I'm also, like the guy you quoted, not suggesting that these are the sole reasons that we are where we are. But I defy anybody who thinks it hasn't had an affect and that we, as the club with only the second lowest wage bill in the league, should be mid table in spite of it all. Its not possible. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 Why is it that certain members of this forum keep bringing up "luck" and try to make out that anyone who dares to mention it thinks we're in the position we're in because of it. I've not seen a single person who has said it's all down to luck, what I have seen a lot of people saying we'd probably still be struggling but had we not had so many poor decisions we might still be in with a fighting chance, rather than cut adrift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teblin Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 Why is it that certain members of this forum keep bringing up "luck" and try to make out that anyone who dares to mention it thinks we're in the position we're in because of it. I've not seen a single person who has said it's all down to luck, what I have seen a lot of people saying we'd probably still be struggling but had we not had so many poor decisions we might still be in with a fighting chance, rather than cut adrift. Its not just that, some of those decisions would gotten us big results, a win at Liverpool to name one. Which can change the course of a season by giving confidence. Like you say, we have been mostly poor which is why we are where we are but we have been out of luck too. At spurs 3 of their goals had a large amount of good fortune about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 A small part is luck. Mostly it's down to bad management and playing. If you balanced out all the so called lucky calls, and not get silly by saying burnly beating man c was down to our bad luck, we'd still be bottom. Scoring three at whl and coming away with nothing is criminal. That's not luck. It's poor defending. Pearson should have gone at Christmas. Still, keep the faith and never quit etc etc while our club gets shafted by those in charge and the rest just look on and keep clapping from the sterile terraces that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 30 March 2015 Author Share Posted 30 March 2015 Today's Guardian shows that we have attempted the second fewest short passes in the league 8,385 (Man City have attempted a mere 8000 more but they're freakishly out in front), Ulloa is in the top 10 for shot conversion with 26.92% (but as he descended towards Steve Howard levels of effectiveness he has conceded the third largest number of fouls - 52 - in the league), we dodged a bullet with Wickham who converts just 6.9% of shots, Kasper's prolonged injury period makes his third worst keeper in terms of shots saved but more tellingly he does have the second worst save % in the league. Some other interesting stats in there, short passes attempted further illustrates that Sam Allardyce hadn't changed his stripes but rather won more with more expensive players so folks just assumed he had. http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/30/premier-league-stats-chelsea-manchester-united Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_star Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 Today's Guardian shows that we have attempted the second fewest short passes in the league 8,385 (Man City have attempted a mere 8000 more but they're freakishly out in front), Ulloa is in the top 10 for shot conversion with 26.92% (but as he descended towards Steve Howard levels of effectiveness he has conceded the third largest number of fouls - 52 - in the league), we dodged a bullet with Wickham who converts just 6.9% of shots, Kasper's prolonged injury period makes his third worst keeper in terms of shots saved but more tellingly he does have the second worst save % in the league. Some other interesting stats in there, short passes attempted further illustrates that Sam Allardyce hadn't changed his stripes but rather won more with more expensive players so folks just assumed he had. http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/30/premier-league-stats-chelsea-manchester-united There's a worse keeper than Schmeichel in the division? Surprising, who is it Schwarzer? Three burnley players in the top 10 for distance covered, shows why they've given a better than expected account of themselves. I'm sure Nugent would be in there if he hadn't been a bit part player this season, but for a struggling side with a quality deficit - workrate is key. They also have 1st, 2nd & 3rd highest sprints per game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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