dogadug Posted 30 March 2015 Share Posted 30 March 2015 i think it's a symptom not a cause. one tensd to look for reasons when things are going bad. from the games i've seen we've not been shafted by refs other than the pen against liverpool an obvious mistake missed by the officials. if vardy had been pulled up for his foul in the man u game v rafael we wouldn't have gotten that penalty that allowoed us to go onto win. so you could argue that if we gotten some things go our way and some not. i really don't think it's cost us as many points as you think it has and therefore isn't as much as an effect on us overall. So you've remembered the 1 decision that went our way this season, yet conveniently forget the numerous blatant decisions we've had against us. Ok.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_tony Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 So you've remembered the 1 decision that went our way this season, yet conveniently forget the numerous blatant decisions we've had against us. Ok.... because the person i was responding too already listed some. do i have to repeat them? We're not unlucky, just face it, it's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Numan Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 because the person i was responding too already listed some. do i have to repeat them? We're not unlucky, just face it, it's not hard. It's not just about the refereeing decisions though, it's all the deflections that ended up in the back of our net, we never get any, it's all the own goals we could do nothing about, we never get any. We are unlucky this season, unfortunately, we've also not been good enough on too many occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Numan Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Before anyone responds to my previous post, I'll say I don't think we're bottom because of bad luck, or through not quite being good enough but because of a disastrous combination of the two. We could have coped with ALL of the horrendous luck this season if we'd been good enough in the games where we weren't unlucky, but, quite simply, we weren't. However, if we won every one of our remaining games through a dodgy decision, a deflection off a low flying pigeon or an own goal, ending the season as the massively "in-form" team, well clear of the relegation zone, have we suddenly become a better team? No! Just that the luck that some seem to think evens itself out over a season will have actually done so. We'll have survived through good luck. I'm sure we'd all be willing to accept that that would be the case so why are some so unwilling to accept that we've had so much bad luck this season? It's not why we're bottom, but it has played a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 inckley you seem to have become so indulged in your negativity and criticism of Pearson that what was once a nuanced, balanced approach from one of the more eloquent members of the forum has become almost irretrievably negative and critical. I don't think I've seen you make one post that isn't talking about how shit we are (or how there are no other reasons for us being bottom other than us/the manager being shit) for about 3 months. My memory isn't great so I tend to focus on the last few games. Against Spurs a debatable penalty went against us and most pundits backed the ref's decision. Eh? This is a pretty bleeding selective take on events. The only two pundits I heard were MOTD and Phil Thompson on SSN, both of whom thought it was a poor call, particularly Thompson who thought it was a ridiculous call. Maybe there are dozens of others you can cite, but personally having only seen 2 pundits, from that particularly small sample there is 100% agreement that it was not a penalty. i think it's a symptom not a cause. one tensd to look for reasons when things are going bad. from the games i've seen we've not been shafted by refs other than the pen against liverpool an obvious mistake missed by the officials. if vardy had been pulled up for his foul in the man u game v rafael we wouldn't have gotten that penalty that allowoed us to go onto win. so you could argue that if we gotten some things go our way and some not. i really don't think it's cost us as many points as you think it has and therefore isn't as much as an effect on us overall. How is it a symptom? How is Wes Morgan getting a handball given against him for the ball hitting him in the face a symptom of us being crap? How is Kramaric getting booked for diving at Spurs when Vorm wiped him out a symptom of us being crap? How is Kramaric getting fouled a yard inside the penalty area at the City of Manchester and getting a free kick outside a symptom of us being crap? And how is Vardy not being called for a foul on Rafael outside the penalty area as he chased the ball into a corner a comparably poor decision to any of the above? It is a matter of opinion for the referee whether he thought it was a foul or not - shoulder barges/pushes are open to interpretation (albeit I did think it was a poor call from Clattenburg and should have been a free kick). There is a difference between objective and subjective refereeing errors/decisions. Morgan does not have a hand on his face. That particular decision is objectively wrong. Simpson, in the same game, conceded a penalty for handball for something which fell under the discretion of the referee as to whether it was deliberate. You'll not find me complaining about that because I understand why it was given - I don't agree but I do understand. Meanwhile Kramaric at Man City is adjudged to have been fouled by the referee. The linesman and the referee are looking right at it. The referee's opinion is that a foul has taken place but he has got the decision not to award a penalty objectively wrong. As said above, I think poor officiating has cost us net 2-7 points this season. Would you really not agree with that? Against Hull a few big decisions went our way and most pundits didn't. I'm not sure that's representative of the whole season, and yes a fair few decisions have gone against us, but I'm pretty confident that our league position owes more to our failure to turn up on 8-9 occasions this season that to some sort of nebulous agenda officials have against us. What big decisions? Huddlestone got sent off for going through the back of Cambiasso and then tripping Vardy when he was breaking into the box. Other than that there were no other big decisions. Even if you think Huddlestone was hard done by it didn't really affect the game did it? We weren't good enough to break them down with 10 or 11. And I am not disagreeing with you that our league standing is more to our failure to turn up 8-9 times this season. Absolutely agreed. What I said (pretty explicitly) is that objectively speaking we have been denied more than our fair share of decisions which have cost us the opportunity to close the gap. I was also pretty explicit in saying that I didn't think there was an agenda. This is a thread about "luck" not a conspiracy. . I'm also sure that fans of other teams seeing us unashamedly waving the 'hard done to' card would laugh us out of town. Besides, a lot of those penalties we won last season to get us where we are now were questionable. I wouldn't stand for somebody telling us how damn lucky we were to get up, because we were clearly good enough to warrant it. This time the boot is sadly on the other foot. Well maybe they would. Or maybe if they sat down and watched what we'd seen then they might be inclined to agree that we're ADRIFT because of poor officiating/"luck" and that we're bottom of the league because we're not very good. And what does last year have to do with it? This is a thread in which we're talking about this year. Further more, I wouldn't stand for somebody telling us we were lucky to get up - that's nonsensical, we finished about 20 points ahead of Derby. But were we lucky to win the league/get promoted by as much as we did? Perhaps that would be an argument I would listen to, and is the flip-side of what I'm talking about rather than the straw man you're dealing with here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I blame Wellens Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 All irrelevant. We are bottom of the worst premiership ever. So we should be called the worst premiership side ever and PEARSON the the worst manager. Yes we've been a bit unlucky. So what, MAN UP and deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 All irrelevant. We are bottom of the worst premiership ever. So we should be called the worst premiership side ever and PEARSON the the worst manager. Yes we've been a bit unlucky. So what, MAN UP and deal with it. Derby still hold that record surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 I'm sure every fan at every club can name bad decisions that have gone against them this season, we only notice what happens at our club. It's not just us who notice it, do a search on twitter and regularly you get fans of other clubs saying how unlucky we are. But as has been said, it's not the reason we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 the impression given is, we have an ok team, not great, but reffing decisions or luck for other teams has put paid to us.that's horse manure. Who on here has said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakemoore Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 I'm sure every fan at every club can name bad decisions that have gone against them this season, we only notice what happens at our club.I know what you're saying but we have been particularly unlucky all season. How many times have we played well but still lost? How many own goals have we conceded? Think Schlupp v Spurs or Cambiasso against WestBrom. How many penalties have we had against us that shouldn't have been, 1 against Spurs, 2 against Liverpool. Even the Walcott goal for arsenal was lucky... How many times does a ball hit the post and rebound out directly to another player like it did for them? The only time we have been lucky this season was against United. Vardys penalty that never should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Englishoxide for one, Babylon And as for Spurs... People seem to have forgotten we were two down inside 10 mins. How is that bad luck? When you abandon tactics and race forward like headless chickens (a la cup final and one down in injury time) you put extra pressure on teams and sometimes get lucky with a goal. The crime was us being forced to do it so soon in to the game... And nugget being in a position to make a tackle in his own box... And being so exposed at the back that JS comes racing back (see headless chicken point) and puts in the og... And the clear shots they could have put away... And the sudden recall of KS, who flapped away like a good un for their goal... Real bad luck that. There's one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Englishoxide for one, Babylon The same englishoxide who said "I'm also, like the guy you quoted, not suggesting that these are the sole reasons that we are where we are." Can I ask why people ignore the majority who when they talk about luck, whilst aware it's not gone out way, are also clear that it's not the sole the reason for us being down here. Every time these threads come up people make out like anyone who dares to mention luck thinks that's the sole reason as to why we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Yes, you're correct. Football is all about luck. We were lucky in 66 with the Lino, O'Neill is Irish, so totally lucky all the time... We played a game on Friday 13 so we were bound to lose... Sadly, people who can't see past WHY things happen and blame it on just luck are missing something. Still, we'll be ok and stay up this season. Luck will even it out, so on another must-win Saturday, we'll line up in our defensive 5 2 3 and with KS in goal, PK and WM keeping it solid at the back luck won't come in to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Yes, you're correct. Football is all about luck. We were lucky in 66 with the Lino, O'Neill is Irish, so totally lucky all the time... We played a game on Friday 13 so we were bound to lose... Sadly, people who can't see past WHY things happen and blame it on just luck are missing something. Still, we'll be ok and stay up this season. Luck will even it out, so on another must-win Saturday, we'll line up in our defensive 5 2 3 and with KS in goal, PK and WM keeping it solid at the back luck won't come in to it. Well thanks for spectacularly proving my point anyway. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Funny all these stats because you can turn them either way to make an argument. If you use whoscored.com and look at their team statistics per game. The following comes up: Overall 16th most shots per game 2nd best discipline (the Europa League might still be on) 18th highest possession percentage per game 17th highest pass success percentage per game 6th most aerial battles won per game Defensive 3rd most shots conceded per game 7th most tackles made per game 2nd most interceptions made per game 5th most fouls conceded per game 19th most offsides given for per game Attacking 15th most shots on target per game 16th most shots off target per game 10th most dribbles per game 19th most fouled team per game Which leaves to an overall rating of the 15th best side in the league according to the stats. Read into that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 31 March 2015 Author Share Posted 31 March 2015 Funny all these stats because you can turn them either way to make an argument. If you use whoscored.com and look at their team statistics per game. The following comes up: Overall 5th most shots per game 2nd best discipline (the Europa League might still be on) 18th highest possession percentage per game 17th highest pass success percentage per game 6th most aerial battles won per game Defensive 3rd most shots conceded per game 7th most tackles made per game 2nd most interceptions made per game 5th most fouls conceded per game 19th most offsides given for per game Attacking 15th most shots on target per game 16th most shots off target per game 10th most dribbles per game 19th most fouled team per game Which leaves to an overall rating of the 15th best side in the league according to the stats. Read into that what you will. We don't have the 5th most shots per game, that is QPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Well thanks for spectacularly proving my point anyway. Thanks. Glad you agree with me. Shame you're a bit of a dick, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 i think it's a symptom not a cause. one tensd to look for reasons when things are going bad. from the games i've seen we've not been shafted by refs other than the pen against liverpool an obvious mistake missed by the officials. if vardy had been pulled up for his foul in the man u game v rafael we wouldn't have gotten that penalty that allowoed us to go onto win. so you could argue that if we gotten some things go our way and some not. i really don't think it's cost us as many points as you think it has and therefore isn't as much as an effect on us overall. The manager who is currently leading the division is forever complaining about decisions, conspiracies, refereeing standards etc. Pearson has been very measured in not using this as an excuse for months on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Glad you agree with me. Shame you're a bit of a dick, though. Bravo 13 posts and already chucking about the insults. Deary me, try reading what people put it might make your own posts look a little less silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 31 March 2015 Author Share Posted 31 March 2015 The manager who is currently leading the division is forever complaining about decisions, conspiracies, refereeing standards etc. Pearson has been very measured in not using this as an excuse for months on end. The manager leading the division has been widely ridiculed for his claims and been dismissed as merely seeking to to deflect attention from his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 The manager leading the division has been widely ridiculed for his claims and been dismissed as merely seeking to to deflect attention from his side. I was responding to the point made that when things are going badly, this is when excuses are looked for. Mourinho hasn't had things going wrong all season with results and league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Any time, Babylon. Please could you inform me how many posts I'm supposed to have before I respond to someone taking a cntish tone with me? Is there a limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 We don't have the 5th most shots per game, that is QPR. Fair point 16th. Edited the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 Any time, Babylon. Please could you inform me how many posts I'm supposed to have before I respond to someone taking a cntish tone with me? Is there a limit? A cntish tone? Do you actually remember the post I was replying to, perhaps you should go back and read your own posts and not just other peoples as already advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiled Posted 31 March 2015 Share Posted 31 March 2015 No problem - if I'm wrong I apologise. Just came across like you were being a cnut. Again, if you weren't then my mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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