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Tuna

Defensive Shambles

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It is time for defensive drills on the training ground and to really get the players and coaches working on this because it now looks our weakest department giving away three goals in five minutes is disgraceful no matter what the opposition is. There should have been more done in the summer to bring in experienced defenders who could go straight into the team

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On ‎24‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 13:18, Tuna said:

No excuses for the lack of coordination and concentration today. We've looked as apalling as we've done in years today, everyone has been utterly atrocious.

 

I think we've relied too much on Wes, Huth, Fuchs and Simpson continuing on from last season and we've not added any real competition or cover in this area. We were pursuing Keane after signing Hernandez so we knew we were short of quality competition in this area. We didn't get him and left it as it was. To have only one right back in the squad is very poor, Simpson has no competition.

 

Seen the title and thought another over reaction type thread. Not sure Keane was a good bet but agree with what you say. +1 for not slagging players off. A shame more on here can't react the same.

 

Yes we have problems and yesterday was awful. But to slate and slag off players does no one any good. We are stuck with what we have till January. People need to get behind them and support them. At the start of our promotion season Vardy and stinky were getting it. How stupid do them comments look now.

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4 minutes ago, Phube said:

Really good analysis on MOTD2 with Savage at the mo' showing how we've had to change  our corner defence at this season compared with last.

Saw that. Was particularly miffed by Chappers saying, "so the new rule has worked" cos it's a 'good' thing that our defence has been nullified.

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Danny Simpson has come out on Sky saying that we are having difficulty adapting to the new grappling rules. 

 

Fair it enough but what about the other defensive frailties we've seen this year. Players ghosting unmarked into the box. Strikers running clean through without being tracked? 

 

I dont think that comment helps as our defence is useless in a number of areas not just at corners. We need to recognise that and address it. Last year we were pretty poor but our distribution to the key attacking players was better, even that has gone to pot.  I don't want to be a broken record but the grey hairs  on my head make me remember a bad time when a manager changed a good thing to stamp his own authority on a team and it went down the toilet.

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On 9/24/2016 at 15:54, Trav Le Bleu said:

I thought this. I like Zieler, his distribution is better than Kasper and he's a great shot stopper, but as you say, doesn't marshal his defence as much. Could possibly be a lack of fluent English (I can't remember hearing him speak.)

Zieler speaks perfect English.

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26 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Danny Simpson has come out on Sky saying that we are having difficulty adapting to the new grappling rules. 

 

Fair it enough but what about the other defensive frailties we've seen this year. Players ghosting unmarked into the box. Strikers running clean through without being tracked? 

 

I dont think that comment helps as our defence is useless in a number of areas not just at corners. We need to recognise that and address it. Last year we were pretty poor but our distribution to the key attacking players was better, even that has gone to pot.  I don't want to be a broken record but the grey hairs  on my head make me remember a bad time when a manager changed a good thing to stamp his own authority on a team and it went down the toilet.

we are a team of grapplers?

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 5 things

 

- Zieler is clearly a good keeper, but he is not yet organising his defence as much as KS does. This contributed to our implosion.

 

- Mike Dean and the grappling thing... contributed

 

- Amartey not picking up as he should of... contributed

 

- A certain lack of focus (or something similar) brought on by the upcoming CL game (as at Liverpool)... contributed

 

- The sheer joy of not being weighed down by Wayne 'Slo-mo' Rooney (note to Big Sam)... contributed

 

In theory, we should be better at this with Slim and Amartey in the team, even after the new changes.

 

One last thing, defenders peak late, so I think our whole back four are still capable at this level. As they showed in the 2nd half, when they had better protection.

 

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Seen simpsons moaning comments in the telegraph. Dems the rules and if you need to effectively cheat to defend then its a slow jog down to the championship.

 

Again a huge oversite by the club in their recruitment strategy this summer.

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On 24 September 2016 at 14:26, Col city fan said:

lol

Here we go...it didn't take long did it.

This defence is the SAME back four who were an absolute rock last season. Yet now, apparently, they are over the hill.

Look to the midfield. There's the problem...... Did you not see goal 2 and 3 today? Mata, completely unmarked, with time to do what Mata does well.

I didn't think it would be long before the defence started to be scapegoated.

Todays team was the same team as last season, with the same formation, with one change....Kante out, Amartey in.

And it didn't take you long to try and warp all the evidence to fit your own theory, so you can say "I was right".

 

Funny that you mention goals two and three... Not one and four. 

 

Chelsea game, looked comfortable concede a corner then we crumble. Man United, looked comfortable, concede a corner then we crumble. 

 

Pre Kante we didn't lose a game by more than 2 goals, we conceded 4 once (And we played 3 at the back that game.) Now we've been pumped twice in a matter of weeks.

 

We've shown it's possible to not get mullered with worse players and without Kante playing 4-4-2, so there have to be some other issues at play as well as missing a great player.

 

Is there an issue with Amartey against better teams, clearly. But just barking on about that and nothing else when's it's just one issue of many is wrong for me.

 

Before they scored United were crap I thought... Slow, looked uncomfortable. We concede a goal that has nothing to do with the change of CM and they turn into a different beast.

 

Before they scored our ball management was woeful. We were getting plenty of time space... What did we do? Sod looking for a blue shirt nearby and blast it 40yards to a red shirt. We consistently presented them the ball  back and we're giving them every chance to play their way into the game.

 

I'm for fast counters when appropriate, but it's almost like we've forgotten how to just pass it around sometimes. 

 

For me we needed to adapt our style this year even with Kante. It was always going to harder, it got harder last third of last season. Teams defending deeper and foiling the counters. I'm massively disappointed we don't seem to have made any attempt to improve ball management.

 

Set pieces were always an issue and they've become an even bigger one now seemingly we can't throttle people at them.

 

The defensive shape is woeful, and I'm talking the shape of all 11 when we defend. I've looked at a few maps plotting players positioning during games and it's very different comparing a few games this year to last. Will need to look at a few more games to get a better picture, but so far it looks like full backs playing wider, slow centre backs playing higher. Wingers average position ahead of where they were before. Strikers higher up the pitch and the cm's too close together and almost playing on top of each other.

 

I've not thought we'd looked anywhere near as compact and it's not a surprise looking at some of these maps. The difference in shape is discernible. Is that through choice, the opposition manipulating us into other positions, a drop in work rate I don't know.... But if you're missing a key DM, stretching out your own shape would seem a bit suicidal.

 

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5 hours ago, WesMorganGod said:

Well we have the best defender in the league in Morgan. So the others are too blame.. defensive midfield to blame too. .Amartey is crap to be honest. 

Well Wes needs to fvckung wake up like the rest of them then

As captain he should be alert to the dangers. Not falling asleep at corners like everyone else. He should along with the keeper organising the defence for set pieces but he don't.

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1 hour ago, Babylon said:

And it didn't take you long to try and warp all the evidence to fit your own theory, so you can say "I was right".

 

Funny that you mention goals two and three... Not one and four. 

 

Chelsea game, looked comfortable concede a corner then we crumble. Man United, looked comfortable, concede a corner then we crumble. 

 

Pre Kante we didn't lose a game by more than 2 goals, we conceded 4 once (And we played 3 at the back that game.) Now we've been pumped twice in a matter of weeks.

 

We've shown it's possible to not get mullered with worse players and without Kante playing 4-4-2, so there have to be some other issues at play as well as missing a great player.

 

Is there an issue with Amartey against better teams, clearly. But just barking on about that and nothing else when's it's just one issue of many is wrong for me.

 

Before they scored United were crap I thought... Slow, looked uncomfortable. We concede a goal that has nothing to do with the change of CM and they turn into a different beast.

 

Before they scored our ball management was woeful. We were getting plenty of time space... What did we do? Sod looking for a blue shirt nearby and blast it 40yards to a red shirt. We consistently presented them the ball  back and we're giving them every chance to play their way into the game.

 

I'm for fast counters when appropriate, but it's almost like we've forgotten how to just pass it around sometimes. 

 

For me we needed to adapt our style this year even with Kante. It was always going to harder, it got harder last third of last season. Teams defending deeper and foiling the counters. I'm massively disappointed we don't seem to have made any attempt to improve ball management.

 

Set pieces were always an issue and they've become an even bigger one now seemingly we can't throttle people at them.

 

The defensive shape is woeful, and I'm talking the shape of all 11 when we defend. I've looked at a few maps plotting players positioning during games and it's very different comparing a few games this year to last. Will need to look at a few more games to get a better picture, but so far it looks like full backs playing wider, slow centre backs playing higher. Wingers average position ahead of where they were before. Strikers higher up the pitch and the cm's too close together and almost playing on top of each other.

 

I've not thought we'd looked anywhere near as compact and it's not a surprise looking at some of these maps. The difference in shape is discernible. Is that through choice, the opposition manipulating us into other positions, a drop in work rate I don't know.... But if you're missing a key DM, stretching out your own shape would seem a bit suicidal.

 

I've said probably four times that goals one and four were simply down to defensive errors. Poor marking at set pieces was clearly the issue. So I don't know what your point is there (is there one?).

We conceded four against Liverpool too. How many of those were directly from set plays? Oh and Chelsea too.

 

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17 hours ago, foxy boxing said:

It is time for defensive drills on the training ground and to really get the players and coaches working on this because it now looks our weakest department giving away three goals in five minutes is disgraceful no matter what the opposition is. There should have been more done in the summer to bring in experienced defenders who could go straight into the team

It's probably the biggest issue of the extra games. It's not recovery what's the issue etc.

 

It's the lack of time on the training pitch. For example, this week we have one full training session before Porto and it's the day before the game. 

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36 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I've said probably four times that goals one and four were simply down to defensive errors. Poor marking at set pieces was clearly the issue. So I don't know what your point is there (is there one?).

We conceded four against Liverpool too. How many of those were directly from set plays? Oh and Chelsea too.

 

The point is you finish your post quite clearly blaming the lack of Kante again, when it had nothing to do with the most important first goal and the fourth goal and it's debatable for one of the others as well as he might not have been picking up the man Amartey left free in the first place.

 

3 goals against United, 1 against Hull and two against Chelsea stemming from failure to deal with a cross direct form the corner or a set piece routine. That's woeful. But it's not just about set pieces just as it's not just about Kante being missing.

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12 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The point is you finish your post quite clearly blaming the lack of Kante again, when it had nothing to do with the most important first goal and the fourth goal and it's debatable for one of the others as well as he might not have been picking up the man Amartey left free in the first place.

 

3 goals against United, 1 against Hull and two against Chelsea stemming from failure to deal with a cross direct form the corner or a set piece routine. That's woeful. But it's not just about set pieces just as it's not just about Kante being missing.

I actually think your analysis of the reasons why makes lots of sense. I get it.

What is clear is that something has gone astray. A defense (or shape) that last season conceded so few has this pre season and season conceded four goals to better sides in five games (I think)....... is a dramatic change. 

Needs sorting.

I think it's a mix of what you are stating and I do believe Amartey is very poor at this level (so far). 

Your posts are so much better when they aim to explain.

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