Morgan signalled bench for 3 man midfield

[crazyleicester]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

King has always been an enigma really. One of my favorite seasons over recent years was the League 1 season, especially cos I went to loads of away games and we nearly always won.

King shone that season. He was nearly ever present and scored some really important goals. When he has time, he's an intelligent footballer who can spray it around, or keep it short when he needs to. He's also a goal threat. Probably our only central midfielder who is capable of scoring a few goals.

But.....in the Prem you just don't get time. Long gone are the days of those central midfielders who can just coordinate games from the middle of the park. Even the likes of Glenn Hoddle nowadays would just be pressed so quickly and wouldn't have the athleticism to do what he used to do so well.

With the fitter players, the sports science, the money, the athleticism and all that has come quicker, more agile midfielders (like Silva, Mahrez etc) who are so nimble on their feet that they have the ability to really influence games. I can't really think of a Hoddle type player these days. Nor a Pirlo, nor a Gary Mac. King kinda fits into this mould (though not as good, obviously). His ability is his vision and his range of passing etc but he's just not built for the modern game. He's neither particularly quick, nor strong, nor agile (in the Silva mould). So he doesn't fit into any 'type' of modern footballer really. Is he an attacking midfielder? A defensive midfielder, or a box to box midfielder. The problem I think, for King, is that he's not obviously any of these. And I think that's why various managers have used him (he's not a BAD player), but only used him when we are short of players more obviously able to play in a certain position.

That was longer than I meant but I know what I'm trying to say, if no one else does!

 

 we get it!

 

You are basically saying King is a poor mans Hoddle and he belongs in Division 1 as thats where he excels!! All jokes aside, I have nothing but love for someone who has stuck with us despite being linked to other clubs over the years and never looks distraught if he isnt picked. You almost see that with him and Wales. If he can play he will do his best. He doesnt seem to be a stroppy so and so and doesnt seem to be a trouble maker. Unfortunately and the reason I singled him out is he isnt defensive and isnt IMO the bloke we turn to for 15 mins when we need to hold out in games! He also isnt one we start with as a central midfielder in a 442 but he has a new 4 year contract I think and is here to stay, hopefully used though as an attacking midfielder trying to nick us some late goals from the bench!!!!

 

 

[pazzerfox]

Bring back Nigel!

[STUHILL]

Morgan was spot on. Should have actually happened a lot earlier too, as it was clear we were being completely over-run in midfield and was pointless having Vardy and Slimani on the break, as it just kept coming back. Also think Ranieri was too slow to respond when we were 2-2 with Chelsea. He was almost perfect last year with subsitutions so hope this is just the odd error he is making and not a sign of things to come. Fair play to Morgan. Also enjoyed how vocal he was throughout the game. I think the Man U defeat probably hit him the hardest as the defence was ridiculed (rightly so) and I think he will have the back 4 fired up to get back to clean sheets and being praised by everyone. 

[Thracian]

5 hours ago, crazyleicester said:

Captains should have a say in things but unfortunately we dont have the options there with Mendy injured and Matty James hasnt played for a year or so. Ironically someone like Inler could come on and sure things up as thats his game.

 

No offence to King although it will sound offensive  He doesnt give us much and really never has. Im not anti-King but if I bring him off the bench to play in a 451 it would be with a view to ticking things over simply in midfield and more likely him getting into the box and him nicking a goal. There is more chance of him being helpful in the oppos box than the middle of the park or defensively. When he came on yesterday he did what he does in so many games. Basically, he was anonymous. Again I dont want it to sound like I hate the bloke as I dont but genuinely if he was not one that came through the ranks I think we would have got shot of him. He offers very little and I cant remember him making a single tackle or block in his short spell on the pitch.

 

BTW I would rather we bought Musa on as LM and switched Albrighton centrally for the last 10-15. At least Musa ran around like a madman and Albrighton was throwing himself into challenges and probably helped us gain 3 points as it was his challenge that deflected off of his body and onto the post late on.

 

I think we were also a bit naive yesterday as we kept on giving the ball away. Someone like even Okazaki for 10-15 mins would IMO been more useful but we need to learn to keep the ball better as we were inviting pressure from a very average Porto side.

King's always given a lot - too much sometimes in the past when he was trying to attack, defend and remain effective in the centre. What's changed is that we'e not a passing side any longer. Occasionally there's a reminder that we can pass but everything now is about getting the ball to Mahrez (for a dribble down the right), Vardy (with a ball over the top) or Albrighton (for across to Slimani).

 

I don't think it's evolution either, I think it's about concern for being caught on the rebound and having slow defenders being exposed against ongoing speed merchants. Kingy's pass and move approach isn't natural to the rest as emphasised so often this season when we've surrendered possession so easily. We don't have the supporting case and we don't generally pass the ball well enough anyway. Making out that Kingy's suddenly a weakness is nonsense. He's the one person they put on near the end because he can retain the ball. Amartey's not too bad most of the time but the rest are decidedly iffy when it comes to keeping the ball.

 

Quite why you'd have persisted with Albrighton at all defeats me. His crossing was attrocious most of the time and his general passing not much better. Even when he's not got the ball, Kingy reads the game quite well and covers the space. It's boring and unsung but just take a look and see how often it's been effective in closing out games and that's what we did last night, ugly as it looked.

 

Your case for shinji's far stronger than Albrighton and I was surprised he wasn't utilised to provide just the kind of off-the-ball runner Kingy might play-off. But I really don't think we had any ambition to move forward in the closing stages. We just wanted to slow the game and spoil the visitors attacks - and it worked.

 

Musa showed the right attitude in complimenting that for the short time he was around but I don't get the impression he has the stamina for a long-stint midfield role. He's all about explosive impact. And, again, he's not the most reliable ball retainer.

 

Boring as it was in the last quarter the method got the result. One goal scored, none conceded. Job done. Sure beats being four down against Manchester United (without Kingy).                         

[fuchsntf]

4 hours ago, crazyleicester said:

 we get it!

 

You are basically saying King is a poor mans Hoddle and he belongs in Division 1 as thats where he excels!! All jokes aside, I have nothing but love for someone who has stuck with us despite being linked to other clubs over the years and never looks distraught if he isnt picked. You almost see that with him and Wales. If he can play he will do his best. He doesnt seem to be a stroppy so and so and doesnt seem to be a trouble maker. Unfortunately and the reason I singled him out is he isnt defensive and isnt IMO the bloke we turn to for 15 mins when we need to hold out in games! He also isnt one we start with as a central midfielder in a 442 but he has a new 4 year contract I think and is here to stay, hopefully used though as an attacking midfielder trying to nick us some late goals from the bench!!!!

 

 

Agree with many of the Andy King comments. I would now prefer in such situations to see Shinji come on, playing a deeper line

more around midfield, by dropping Amartey deeper in front of the bacKmen. King is no longer that hold and drive player.

He cuts out alot of ball, but not enough hold ,pass , look for return. Distrubution at the front has always been there, but

not when deep in his own half. With Shinji in danger of playing less games competing for a forward position,he could

be a better alternative.

I could see King getting less bench time..Unless he suddenly recreates hisself  into a CB.

[4everfox]

I'd love to see Shinji given a game or two in the centre of midfield, he's got the work rate and tenacity of any player in the world and if he can show he has the ability to read the game, intercept passes and win the ball back then we have got a ready made Kante replacement. He started off weak and easily pushed off the ball when he first came here and I got on his back a bit but he has developed into one of my favourite players.

 

[crazyleicester]

4 hours ago, Thracian said:

King's always given a lot - too much sometimes in the past when he was trying to attack, defend and remain effective in the centre. What's changed is that we'e not a passing side any longer. Occasionally there's a reminder that we can pass but everything now is about getting the ball to Mahrez (for a dribble down the right), Vardy (with a ball over the top) or Albrighton (for across to Slimani).

 

I don't think it's evolution either, I think it's about concern for being caught on the rebound and having slow defenders being exposed against ongoing speed merchants. Kingy's pass and move approach isn't natural to the rest as emphasised so often this season when we've surrendered possession so easily. We don't have the supporting case and we don't generally pass the ball well enough anyway. Making out that Kingy's suddenly a weakness is nonsense. He's the one person they put on near the end because he can retain the ball. Amartey's not too bad most of the time but the rest are decidedly iffy when it comes to keeping the ball.

 

Quite why you'd have persisted with Albrighton at all defeats me. His crossing was attrocious most of the time and his general passing not much better. Even when he's not got the ball, Kingy reads the game quite well and covers the space. It's boring and unsung but just take a look and see how often it's been effective in closing out games and that's what we did last night, ugly as it looked.

 

Your case for shinji's far stronger than Albrighton and I was surprised he wasn't utilised to provide just the kind of off-the-ball runner Kingy might play-off. But I really don't think we had any ambition to move forward in the closing stages. We just wanted to slow the game and spoil the visitors attacks - and it worked.

 

Musa showed the right attitude in complimenting that for the short time he was around but I don't get the impression he has the stamina for a long-stint midfield role. He's all about explosive impact. And, again, he's not the most reliable ball retainer.

 

Boring as it was in the last quarter the method got the result. One goal scored, none conceded. Job done. Sure beats being four down against Manchester United (without Kingy).                         

We proved last season that its not all about ball retention and as frustrating as it has been in us constantly giving it away, its the way that we play and its the way that has bought us unparalleled success. Sometimes football isnt about being a purist but by being effective. The thing is though last season were were more incisive with our passing and this season the gaps arent there and more importantly, our key players are not playing a key role as before. Im sure that will come though as it has to. 

 

As for Kingy, you are obviously a fan. I cant knock that but I also cant see the world through Blue tinted glasses all the time. For me its about what you can give and not what you used to give. Like some others, I think Kingy`s best season was playing for us in D1. He did shine at times in Championship seasons but his best for me was in D1. The standard was lower, he had time and we played the ball on the deck a bit more. However, if we are realistic, he hasnt improved as we would have liked and infact it feels like he has gone backwards. His loyalty and lack of games is great for us as a club as we havent a moaner on our hands but that may well have stifled his career. Also I cant say I agree with your synopsis on Kingy regarding what he does do well. He has never been an incisive passer of the ball and is more of one that ticks things over. To suggest he would do better with a passing team at prem level is ludicrous. The point is, he never does anything with the ball when he gets it and also importantly doesnt seem to win it to do something with it himself like say a Danny Drinkwater who has demonstrated his superb array of passing and does a lot of it by himself.

 

Lets also be a bit more realistic here. When King played for a suspended Ramsey for Wales in the Euros he went missing again. Its like he wasnt on the pitch. It was also telling that Wales rushed through Ledley to play England and he had broken his leg weeks before and wasnt match fit and before that both Edwards and Williams started ahead of him. When Championship players get ahead of him for the National side you do have to ask why.

 

Anyway I seem to have digressed about what he doesnt do but as I have stated, he would be the last player I would put on to protect a lead as he just goes missing but he would be the first midfielder I would put on if we needed a goal because he always finds good positions in the oppos box. 

 

As for my Albrighton point, well it was him who through himself in front of the shot that careered off the post and if it wasnt his deflection we may have only got a point out of the game. I admit it hasnt been his best season so far but he offers us so much defensively and on his day can score a goal and has a mean cross. You will also notice he can get in both boxes but for me one thing he gives is energy and effort, something that unfortunately Kingy cant because IMO he isnt capable bless him!!!

[crazyleicester]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

Agree with many of the Andy King comments. I would now prefer in such situations to see Shinji come on, playing a deeper line

more around midfield, by dropping Amartey deeper in front of the bacKmen. King is no longer that hold and drive player.

He cuts out alot of ball, but not enough hold ,pass , look for return. Distrubution at the front has always been there, but

not when deep in his own half. With Shinji in danger of playing less games competing for a forward position,he could

be a better alternative.

I could see King getting less bench time..Unless he suddenly recreates hisself  into a CB.

I think the club love him and so they should hence the reward on a new contract. He deserves it for his loyalty to us and his contribution over the seasons. It was interesting he started the season as "Kantes replacement" but that experiment lasted 68 mins, largely because he was ineffective. I dont think the club quite know what to do with him now as he is 3rd choice central midfielder at best and we are looking at more players in that position. I agree with you that he will get less chances for us because of all the above but he is no central defender mate!

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, crazyleicester said:

I think the club love him and so they should hence the reward on a new contract. He deserves it for his loyalty to us and his contribution over the seasons. It was interesting he started the season as "Kantes replacement" but that experiment lasted 68 mins, largely because he was ineffective. I dont think the club quite know what to do with him now as he is 3rd choice central midfielder at best and we are looking at more players in that position. I agree with you that he will get less chances for us because of all the above but he is no central defender mate!

I agree ,I was being silly,being facetious there is no way I see him as a CB either......................

[SheppyFox]

What is even more intriguing is how little difference Andy King made when he did come on, looked like the last player to be picked on the playground that at best just gets in the way of opposition attacks

[Foxhateram]

Any stats guys able to find how many games we have seen out with Kingy as a late sub? I can think of atleast 4 or 5 in the latter end of last season/into this season. He does more than you think off the ball. Just watch him next time he plays. He is very intelligent. You don't have to be in the thick of it with challenges etc to being playing well. 

[norwichfox]

13 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

Bring back Nigel!

What, now he's proven himself at Derby....

[norwichfox]

8 hours ago, 4everfox said:

I'd love to see Shinji given a game or two in the centre of midfield, he's got the work rate and tenacity of any player in the world and if he can show he has the ability to read the game, intercept passes and win the ball back then we have got a ready made Kante replacement. He started off weak and easily pushed off the ball when he first came here and I got on his back a bit but he has developed into one of my favourite players.

 

If we're going to have an extra midfielder as per the end of Porto game I'm all for us trying this as the extra midfielder i.e. dropping back and becoming more of a link man who can move up and score goals.

It would help us to hold onto the ball for longer and get away from the hit and rush tactics which we've been well and truly sussed by oppositions imo. Even though his role at the moment is kinda' midfielder it's surely worth a try for a couple of games as we seem to be in a "transition" period, Chelsea away would be a good place to start the erxperiment, I really do think he'd fit in there (my opinion, others have expressed differently before), also we'd probably get 90 minutes a game from him too.

[Thracian]

7 hours ago, crazyleicester said:

We proved last season that its not all about ball retention and as frustrating as it has been in us constantly giving it away, its the way that we play and its the way that has bought us unparalleled success. Sometimes football isnt about being a purist but by being effective. The thing is though last season were were more incisive with our passing and this season the gaps arent there and more importantly, our key players are not playing a key role as before. Im sure that will come though as it has to. 

 

As for Kingy, you are obviously a fan. I cant knock that but I also cant see the world through Blue tinted glasses all the time. For me its about what you can give and not what you used to give. Like some others, I think Kingy`s best season was playing for us in D1. He did shine at times in Championship seasons but his best for me was in D1. The standard was lower, he had time and we played the ball on the deck a bit more. However, if we are realistic, he hasnt improved as we would have liked and infact it feels like he has gone backwards. His loyalty and lack of games is great for us as a club as we havent a moaner on our hands but that may well have stifled his career. Also I cant say I agree with your synopsis on Kingy regarding what he does do well. He has never been an incisive passer of the ball and is more of one that ticks things over. To suggest he would do better with a passing team at prem level is ludicrous. The point is, he never does anything with the ball when he gets it and also importantly doesnt seem to win it to do something with it himself like say a Danny Drinkwater who has demonstrated his superb array of passing and does a lot of it by himself.

 

Lets also be a bit more realistic here. When King played for a suspended Ramsey for Wales in the Euros he went missing again. Its like he wasnt on the pitch. It was also telling that Wales rushed through Ledley to play England and he had broken his leg weeks before and wasnt match fit and before that both Edwards and Williams started ahead of him. When Championship players get ahead of him for the National side you do have to ask why.

 

Anyway I seem to have digressed about what he doesnt do but as I have stated, he would be the last player I would put on to protect a lead as he just goes missing but he would be the first midfielder I would put on if we needed a goal because he always finds good positions in the oppos box. 

 

As for my Albrighton point, well it was him who through himself in front of the shot that careered off the post and if it wasnt his deflection we may have only got a point out of the game. I admit it hasnt been his best season so far but he offers us so much defensively and on his day can score a goal and has a mean cross. You will also notice he can get in both boxes but for me one thing he gives is energy and effort, something that unfortunately Kingy cant because IMO he isnt capable bless him!!!

I've appreciated Kingy's impact as a footballer since he first played for our trophy-winning U18 Academy team which has never been the same since and throughout the times he's helped us win an unprecedented stream of honours.

 

But I'm no more "a fan" of King than any of our other players when they're doing well and have not really thought of him as first choice in the current team for some time until our recent midfielder shortage. But not because he's any less of a player - he'll go as rusty as anyone (eg Ulloa) for not getting regular games  - but his style hasn't really been integral to our system of getting quick balls to Vardy.

 

However, it's fast becoming apparent that we've either got to expand our quick-counter football or we've got to fast develop a team that is capable of passing and moving (or both, which would be ideal) and we'll never do that with a good many of our current personnel who may have qualities in abundance but passing under pressure isn't the best of them.

 

It's been a major flaw this season. Even in the win over Porto we sacrificed possession shamefully at times, partly because of clumsy or misguided delivery or, more often, because there were no supporting players even making the attempt to maintain forward momentum. 

 

You put King in a team based on passing and moving and he'd still be in his element.

 

He remains the only player we have who constantly lays off quick, accurate, passes under pressure. I don't think he does it as often as in the past - some might say he's learned more sense than trying to be everywhere but comparisons on this issue between king and Shinji are wishful thinking.

 

Shinji's a super team member because he like a hornet for harrassing people and thereford reducing the number of opposition attacks we have to cope with, often from source. But he too is a careless passer just as he's a careless shot maker.              

 

Drinky's improved in this respect, not be becoming a better passer as such under pressure but by making himself so much stronger and thus able to hold off challengers and give himself a bit more time on the ball when he's not consciously increasing risks by going for the more spectacular.

 

King's tried to get stronger too but it's not really in his nature to be physically combative. What bothers me most about him is the loss of his scoring touch. It means we don't have a single central midfielder in the club who can score goals with any frequency and, to me, that's ridiculous and needs to change.             

[Captain...]

Whether Morgan should be telling the manager what changes to make is debatable, but good for him to make the point to Ranieri that we needed changes as Porto were getting on top and a few players were looking tired.

 

Ranieri should have made changes earlier and had more confidence in the squad players that they can come on, even for our big players and contribute.

 

A fresh Gray is better than a knackered Mahrez, same for Musa and Vardy, Okazaki and Slimani, Schlupp and Albrighton, King and Amartey.

 

The delay in making a change made me think Ranieri doesn't have that  much faith in the  second string, or has too much reliance on the first 11.

[Thracian]

9 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Whether Morgan should be telling the manager what changes to make is debatable, but good for him to make the point to Ranieri that we needed changes as Porto were getting on top and a few players were looking tired.

 

Ranieri should have made changes earlier and had more confidence in the squad players that they can come on, even for our big players and contribute.

 

A fresh Gray is better than a knackered Mahrez, same for Musa and Vardy, Okazaki and Slimani, Schlupp and Albrighton, King and Amartey.

 

The delay in making a change made me think Ranieri doesn't have that  much faith in the  second string, or has too much reliance on the first 11.

 

 

Perhaps more that he was reluctant to make any changes to a team that was doing the job for fear of breaking the spell, so to speak.

 

So often, a change can disrupt a functioning team.

 

It was clear to everyone that we were losing our grip on the game for various reasons but, with the minutes ticking away without mishap, that wouldn't make it any easier to make a change that might  backfire.

 

I don't think that reflects on the bench players at all, more an instinct not to want to change what was working.   

[WigstonWanderer]

16 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

 

Perhaps more that he was reluctant to make any changes to a team that was doing the job for fear of breaking the spell, so to speak.

 

So often, a change can disrupt a functioning team.

 

It was clear to everyone that we were losing our grip on the game for various reasons but, with the minutes ticking away without mishap, that wouldn't make it any easier to make a change that might  backfire.

 

I don't think that reflects on the bench players at all, more an instinct not to want to change what was working.   

Sounds like a rabbit caught in headlights

[lcfcdamo]

If we buy silva in January we will have the perfect 3 in mid drinkwater and siva with Amartey or mendy sitting then we can afford a bit more attacking players on the wing with Mahrez on 1 side and gray or musa on the other i would definitely set up like that away from home and against the better teams then go back to 442 against the lesser teams 

[foxy boxing]

good to see he had the nouse to see what the team needed, and the spirit to tell claudio and the bench that things needed changing.that is exactly what we need leaders on the pitch that can read a game and change things accordingly

 

[foxes21]

For all of Porto's 'dominance' in the second half, they only created one good chance . Ranieri clearly wanted them to sit deeper and soak the pressure up and it worked.

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Sounds like a rabbit caught in headlights

Yeh right oh.....

 

Let me remind you of the technical nous Ranieri as shown so far, ESPECIALLY..on subs.

Now he is suddenly up for ridicule...  I give up...!!

[Grewks]

6 hours ago, foxhateram said:

Any stats guys able to find how many games we have seen out with Kingy as a late sub? I can think of atleast 4 or 5 in the latter end of last season/into this season. He does more than you think off the ball. Just watch him next time he plays. He is very intelligent. You don't have to be in the thick of it with challenges etc to being playing well. 

 

I'd imagine, that a side leading when bringing on a 'late sub', wins 9 times out of 10 anyway, so i'm not sure King was influential.

[Grewks]

2 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Yeh right oh.....

 

Let me remind you of the technical nous Ranieri as shown so far, ESPECIALLY..on subs.

Now he is suddenly up for ridicule...  I give up...!!

 

Not sure Ranieri has shown much 'tactical nous', this, or last season.

 

Picking a consistent winning team, whilst the right thing to do, doesn't show any kind of 'tactical genius'.

 

 

Beating Burnley, Swansea and Brugge has been a result of us having better individual players rather than playing a system which 'tactically outwitted' them.

 

 

 

This season, Ranieri has been found wanting when changing his side at Hull, and also whilst not changing the system at Anfield or Old Trafford, especially at Old Trafford having had the Anfield lesson a few weeks previous.

[mad biker]

12 minutes ago, Grewks said:

 

Not sure Ranieri has shown much 'tactical nous', this, or last season.

 

Picking a consistent winning team, whilst the right thing to do, doesn't show any kind of 'tactical genius'.

 

 

Beating Burnley, Swansea and Brugge has been a result of us having better individual players rather than playing a system which 'tactically outwitted' them.

 

 

 

This season, Ranieri has been found wanting when changing his side at Hull, and also whilst not changing the system at Anfield or Old Trafford, especially at Old Trafford having had the Anfield lesson a few weeks previous.

We`re doooooooomed dooooooooooooooomed  :-)

[Foxhateram]

1 hour ago, Grewks said:

 

I'd imagine, that a side leading when bringing on a 'late sub', wins 9 times out of 10 anyway, so i'm not sure King was influential.

That's a little unfair isn't it? Player comes on at 70 mins then I am pretty sure he has some influence. As previously stated I can think of a good 6/7 games Kingy has helped us to see out in the past 6/7 months. He is radiculously under rated.

 

If he was as bad as people make out then why has he been chosen to play by so many different managers over the years