England: end of an era

[peach0000]

I feel that an era has ended when it comes to england with owen and beckham both retiring as well as others. With the friendly coming up against brazil i feel it would be a perfect opportunity to show appreciation for everything they have done. Therefore i believe this is the team that should be used (if fit)

 

                       Hart

 

Neville   Jones     Carragher     Cole

 

Ox     Beckham  Scholes   Walcott

 

            Owen      Rooney

 

 

 

I know the squad has been announced and it won't happen but i just thought it would be a good idea, would also be a good experience for young players as well playing along side greats.

 

 

Forgot carragher 

[Fox92]

People seem to have forgotten about Neville. Great professional is Phil Neville, I've always liked him.

 

(In reference to your post, I'm not keen on that idea - I though that's why we have the 'legends' matches for charity).

[Danno]

So depressing seeing how we had David Beckham now we have Alex Oxlade-****ing-Chamberlain.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

I agree that it's somewhat the end of an era. But as much as I admire the likes of Beckham and Owen, ultimately they were part of a so-called 'Golden Generation' who, in the grand scheme of things, failed to deliver any better times for English international football than in decades prior to them.

 

A reflection on what they achieved personally in their club careers is fitting, a gesture of appreciation on a national front is not.

[Kitchandro]

So depressing seeing how we had David Beckham now we have Alex Oxlade-****ing-Chamberlain.

 

Yeh god forbid we might have a bit of pace in the side.

 

It's time to forget about the has-beens, Beckham and Owen haven't really played for England in a good few years.

[Wymsey]

I'm hope that Hodgson will dazzle the critics by making England into a strong contender for next year's World Cup. Doubt it somehow.

[MooseBreath]

Scholes refused to play for England during the peak of his ability so while his reasons were respectable (I'm sure a lot of it was not wanting to be part of the circus post 2006), he deserves no elevated status as an England player.

I would question Owen as well. He was a good striker in his day but will not go down as a legend for me.

[Ric Flair]

Hahahaaa i'd love to see them put this team out in the friendly

 

James

 

Gary Neville

Carragher

Sol Campbell

Phil Neville

 

Beckham

Scholes

Hargreaves

Joe Cole

 

Owen

Heskey

[MC Prussian]

England has had a lot of (very) talented footballers in the past ten years or so, sadly either themselves or their respective managers weren't able to bundle these individual forces to create a unit.

 

It's just stunning to see how the years pass when players like Owen, Beckham, Scholes or Carragher retire. Household names one grew up with.

Yet I don't feel England as a country will miss them overly - you got to have faith in the current generation. I think they can go places.

[Manwell Pablo]

Hahahaaa i'd love to see them put this team out in the friendly

 

James

 

Gary Neville

Carragher

Sol Campbell

Phil Neville

 

Beckham

Scholes

Hargreaves

Joe Cole

 

Owen

Heskey

 

Probably beat our current starting XI that's the scary thing.

[Darkon84]

I agree that it's somewhat the end of an era. But as much as I admire the likes of Beckham and Owen, ultimately they were part of a so-called 'Golden Generation' who, in the grand scheme of things, failed to deliver any better times for English international football than in decades prior to them.

 

A reflection on what they achieved personally in their club careers is fitting, a gesture of appreciation on a national front is not.

 

I'd be far more inclined to point the finger of blame at those who were picking the sides. Trying to constantly shoe-horn in Lampard and Gerrard in to the same side for years was a huge mistake, and everyone could see it, meaning neither could actually play how they wanted to play. Ignoring probably the best midfielder we've had for 30 years and trying play him out wide and forcing him in to retirement in Paul Scholes should be punishable by death, and also ignoring the best passer of the ball England have had for years in Michael Carrick is ridiculous.

[Kitchandro]

The England team of the last 15 years has done bugger all. We may have had some talented players but many were overrated or lost their form permanently after a few years. And I include Beckham and Lampard in that list. I don't see why it should be revered over the current young side who's latest major tournament performance (a quarter final) is no worse than any England team in the previous era.

 

I think people need to accept that that team was never as good as people made out. It certainly was never capable of winning a major tournament even at it's best and most players bottled it on the big stage to the extent where it struggled against crap teams.

 

I remember before the Germany game 3 years ago the MOTD studio were claiming that man for man we were better than the Germans. Even before the match started I knew this was the most laughable thing I'd ever heard.

[Manwell Pablo]

The England team of the last 15 years has done bugger all. We may have had some talented players but many were overrated or lost their form permanently after a few years. And I include Beckham and Lampard in that list. I don't see why it should be revered over the current young side who's latest major tournament performance (a quarter final) is no worse than any England team in the previous era.

 

I think people need to accept that that team was never as good as people made out. It certainly was never capable of winning a major tournament even at it's best and most players bottled it on the big stage to the extent where it struggled against crap teams.

 

I remember before the Germany game 3 years ago the MOTD studio were claiming that man for man we were better than the Germans. Even before the match started I knew this was the most laughable thing I'd ever heard.

 

 

2002 we were very narrowly beaten by the best team in the world and eventual winners, in a game in which we took the lead in, and while they probably deserved it, we gave a good account of ourselves, better than most other teams that played them. We could and probably should have won Euro 2004, we were totally robbed. 2006 was a little less convincing but I wouldn't say Portugal were unlucky to be forced into a shoot out even after we went down to 10 and Beckham had to go off, I believe Owen was once again injured in that tournament. I called no qualification for 2008 on here the day Mclaren was appointed as he is clueless. 2010 a few had retired, a few more were 30+, we were crap don't get me wrong but if that set of players was going to do something 2010 was too late. I agree anyone who thought we had better players than the Germans going into that game was delueded.  

 

I know you will probably deny John Terry has even managed more than a 7/10 in a 90 minute game of football but the general consensus among journalists, commentators and fans (and also my opinion) was that him and Gerrard were our best players at Euro 2012 both members of this "Golden Era", and when we played Italy you could say something about that England side that would of been harsh on the ones that lost to Brazilians or the Portugese, going forward perhaps even the Germans. We completley lacked class,  and were totally outplayed by the Italians, Hodgson fair play to him got his tactics spot on and with a bit of luck managed to keep them out for 120 minutes. But we looked awful, and could of played until the sun came up without scoring a goal.

 

People need to remember two things about International tournaments when quoting things like "15 years bugger all" 1. That's only three or four tournaments 2. It is extremly difficult to win an international tournament, a fantastic squad is no guarantee of success as you wont be the only ones turning with geniune quality. It'd of been an amazing achievement had they managed it even with that squad. 

 

I'm glad you have such optimisem regarding the future however I have to say I do not share it, look at the dog fight we are in just to qualify for the World Cup battling it out with Footballing giants such as Montenegro (a team we managed to finish 6 points ahead of just 3 years ago) This current England side will not consistantly reach major quarter finals and when our ranking starts to sink you'll start to see how far behind we really are. If we qualify for Brazil we'll be out in the round of 16 at the very best personally I'd imagine it'd be group stages.

[indierich06]

A bunch of players who had the potential but achieved nothing. Wasting your potential is worse than having none in the first place.

[Kitchandro]

2002 we were very narrowly beaten by the best team in the world and eventual winners, in a game in which we took the lead in, and while they probably deserved it, we gave a good account of ourselves, better than most other teams that played them. We could and probably should have won Euro 2004, we were totally robbed. 2006 was a little less convincing but I wouldn't say Portugal were unlucky to be forced into a shoot out even after we went down to 10 and Beckham had to go off, I believe Owen was once again injured in that tournament. I called no qualification for 2008 on here the day Mclaren was appointed as he is clueless. 2010 a few had retired, a few more were 30+, we were crap don't get me wrong but if that set of players was going to do something 2010 was too late. I agree anyone who thought we had better players than the Germans going into that game was delueded.  

 

I know you will probably deny John Terry has even managed more than a 7/10 in a 90 minute game of football but the general consensus among journalists, commentators and fans (and also my opinion) was that him and Gerrard were our best players at Euro 2012 both members of this "Golden Era", and when we played Italy you could say something about that England side that would of been harsh on the ones that lost to Brazilians or the Portugese, going forward perhaps even the Germans. We completley lacked class,  and were totally outplayed by the Italians, Hodgson fair play to him got his tactics spot on and with a bit of luck managed to keep them out for 120 minutes. But we looked awful, and could of played until the sun came up without scoring a goal.

 

People need to remember two things about International tournaments when quoting things like "15 years bugger all" 1. That's only three or four tournaments 2. It is extremly difficult to win an international tournament, a fantastic squad is no guarantee of success as you wont be the only ones turning with geniune quality. It'd of been an amazing achievement had they managed it even with that squad. 

 

I'm glad you have such optimisem regarding the future however I have to say I do not share it, look at the dog fight we are in just to qualify for the World Cup battling it out with Footballing giants such as Montenegro (a team we managed to finish 6 points ahead of just 3 years ago) This current England side will not consistantly reach major quarter finals and when our ranking starts to sink you'll start to see how far behind we really are. If we qualify for Brazil we'll be out in the round of 16 at the very best personally I'd imagine it'd be group stages.

 

Firstly I never said I had optimis regarding the future - I don't, I simply don't look at the past 10-15 years with rose tinted glasses like some do.

 

In 2002 we gave a good account of ourselves until half time against Brazil, and lost narrowly. People were happy enough with that World Cup but the others....

 

Euro 2004, I'm not sure how you can say we should have won. We played quite well in the group on the whole but were dominated after Rooney went off against Portugal, and we've never seen the best of Shrek features again. I agree Portugal were very lucky in terms of refereeing decisions such as the goal that was disallowed etc, but our performance was still unconvincing. And in any case, I wouldn't have been confident of us beating Holland or Greece without Rooney.

 

In 2006 we were awful, much like 2010 there was not one convincing performance. We played woefully against such giants as Trinindad and Tobago and Ecuador. Again, yes Portugal were poor and frankly I maintain the match was a fix, but it doesn't excuse how poor we were.

 

As for McLaren, I also knew he would do a crap job for England but can you completely lay the blame at the managers door for not qualifying? For all their tactical errors, and they made them no doubt, the biggest mistakes that Sven, McLaren, Capello and Hodgson have made is sticking with the same tried and failed faces even when they were well out of form. We had pretty much the same team between 2004 and 2010, which speaks for itself.

 

None of the managers have had the balls to drop the big names when they've been out of form, Hodgson has done the same with Rooney that Sven did with Beckham. You can blame the new generation if you like but Rooney and Terry were two of our worst performers at the Euros, yet Carroll, who was inexplicably replaced by the ogre, was one of the better ones, Walcott changed the game when he came on against Sweden, Welbeck scored, and our so-called experienced defence was all over the place. Gerrard was the exception of the old guard.

 

The proof is in the pudding, we've tried all sorts of different managers and the players we had did not perform. In fact, since the Euro 2004 group stagees we have had not one convincing 90 minute performance in major tournaments since - that's 14 games, a long with not qualifying for Euro 2008.

 

We never had the players to win a tournament, but that is not people's gripe, it's that our so called stars never proved they were world class on the big occassion, not even enough to give a decent account of themselves against much weaker nations. Whether that's to do with mentality, attitude or whatever, they didn't do it. Talent is only half of it.

[ScouseFox]

It still amazes me every time Kitchandro talks about Euro 2012. It's almost as if he didn't watch a single moment of it.

And I've always said it's one thing just moronically repeating "DROP DA OLD GARD DER CRAPP!!!" Over and over, but who would've replaced them? There's a reason we played a pretty similar team from 2004 to 2010, that's because that team were comfortably the best set of players in our country.

[Churchill]

I'm sick and tired of seeing the same players picked everytime.. What has the likes of Welbeck done this season? Why not give Lambert a go as he was the second top english goalscorer in the Prem.

[Manwell Pablo]

It still amazes me every time Kitchandro talks about Euro 2012. It's almost as if he didn't watch a single moment of it.

And I've always said it's one thing just moronically repeating "DROP DA OLD GARD DER CRAPP!!!" Over and over, but who would've replaced them? There's a reason we played a pretty similar team from 2004 to 2010, that's because that team were comfortably the best set of players in our country.

 

 

His comments about Terry are absloutley mind blowing I have to say. It's odd he seems to to take quite a balanced view on most things but as soon as you mention Ashley Cole or John Terry all sense of reasoning seems to go hurtling out the window

[Manwell Pablo]

Firstly I never said I had optimis regarding the future - I don't, I simply don't look at the past 10-15 years with rose tinted glasses like some do.

 

In 2002 we gave a good account of ourselves until half time against Brazil, and lost narrowly. People were happy enough with that World Cup but the others....

 

Euro 2004, I'm not sure how you can say we should have won. We played quite well in the group on the whole but were dominated after Rooney went off against Portugal, and we've never seen the best of Shrek features again. I agree Portugal were very lucky in terms of refereeing decisions such as the goal that was disallowed etc, but our performance was still unconvincing. And in any case, I wouldn't have been confident of us beating Holland or Greece without Rooney.

 

In 2006 we were awful, much like 2010 there was not one convincing performance. We played woefully against such giants as Trinindad and Tobago and Ecuador. Again, yes Portugal were poor and frankly I maintain the match was a fix, but it doesn't excuse how poor we were.

 

As for McLaren, I also knew he would do a crap job for England but can you completely lay the blame at the managers door for not qualifying? For all their tactical errors, and they made them no doubt, the biggest mistakes that Sven, McLaren, Capello and Hodgson have made is sticking with the same tried and failed faces even when they were well out of form. We had pretty much the same team between 2004 and 2010, which speaks for itself.

 

None of the managers have had the balls to drop the big names when they've been out of form, Hodgson has done the same with Rooney that Sven did with Beckham. You can blame the new generation if you like but Rooney and Terry were two of our worst performers at the Euros, yet Carroll, who was inexplicably replaced by the ogre, was one of the better ones, Walcott changed the game when he came on against Sweden, Welbeck scored, and our so-called experienced defence was all over the place. Gerrard was the exception of the old guard.

 

The proof is in the pudding, we've tried all sorts of different managers and the players we had did not perform. In fact, since the Euro 2004 group stagees we have had not one convincing 90 minute performance in major tournaments since - that's 14 games, a long with not qualifying for Euro 2008.

 

We never had the players to win a tournament, but that is not people's gripe, it's that our so called stars never proved they were world class on the big occassion, not even enough to give a decent account of themselves against much weaker nations. Whether that's to do with mentality, attitude or whatever, they didn't do it. Talent is only half of it.

 

Well we agree on 2002 at least

 

2004, Portugal certainly looked more competitive after Rooney went off (again this is bad luck on our half not under performance, we looked much the better side with him on) but they did not dominate the game, and Campbells goal should of stood. I'd of fancied a crack at the Dutch or the Greeks had we seen off Portugal.

 

2006 and 2010 yes there was under performance and we weren't good enough (not awful we lost 1 game in 8) but you talk like Beckham shouldn not have been played in 06? He made the goal against Paraguay, Setup Crouch for the opener against T&T (who Paraguay and espeically a half decent Sweden team had just as much trouble with as us) and scored a direct free kick to beat Ecuador   If it weren't for him we probably wouldn't of even got that far. And yes I do blame McLaren, a lot, he tried to make a big point in bringing in "the new generation" and got rid of Beckham completley and look where that got him.

 

They could of been better but I think three consecutive quarter finals is enough to give them a bit of credit. Afterall it is not their fault they were so over rated by the English media who made them out to be the best team in the world when they clearly were not. They were decent servents for their country and gave us geniune belief that a semi final was possible.

[Dan]

2002 we were very narrowly beaten by the best team in the world and eventual winners, in a game in which we took the lead in, and while they probably deserved it, we gave a good account of ourselves, better than most other teams that played them. We could and probably should have won Euro 2004, we were totally robbed. 2006 was a little less convincing but I wouldn't say Portugal were unlucky to be forced into a shoot out even after we went down to 10 and Beckham had to go off, I believe Owen was once again injured in that tournament. I called no qualification for 2008 on here the day Mclaren was appointed as he is clueless. 2010 a few had retired, a few more were 30+, we were crap don't get me wrong but if that set of players was going to do something 2010 was too late. I agree anyone who thought we had better players than the Germans going into that game was delueded.  

 

I know you will probably deny John Terry has even managed more than a 7/10 in a 90 minute game of football but the general consensus among journalists, commentators and fans (and also my opinion) was that him and Gerrard were our best players at Euro 2012 both members of this "Golden Era", and when we played Italy you could say something about that England side that would of been harsh on the ones that lost to Brazilians or the Portugese, going forward perhaps even the Germans. We completley lacked class,  and were totally outplayed by the Italians, Hodgson fair play to him got his tactics spot on and with a bit of luck managed to keep them out for 120 minutes. But we looked awful, and could of played until the sun came up without scoring a goal.

 

People need to remember two things about International tournaments when quoting things like "15 years bugger all" 1. That's only three or four tournaments 2. It is extremly difficult to win an international tournament, a fantastic squad is no guarantee of success as you wont be the only ones turning with geniune quality. It'd of been an amazing achievement had they managed it even with that squad. 

 

I'm glad you have such optimisem regarding the future however I have to say I do not share it, look at the dog fight we are in just to qualify for the World Cup battling it out with Footballing giants such as Montenegro (a team we managed to finish 6 points ahead of just 3 years ago) This current England side will not consistantly reach major quarter finals and when our ranking starts to sink you'll start to see how far behind we really are. If we qualify for Brazil we'll be out in the round of 16 at the very best personally I'd imagine it'd be group stages.

 

Sad but true. We're so far behind the top sides in Europe it's embarrassing. We're more like Russia, Croatia, Turkey and Czech Republic rather than Italy, Spain, Germany etc... and that is absolutely unforgivable considering we're probably the most hooked nation on football in the continent.

 

I think it all stems down to being too old fashioned at grass roots level, too rigid in general, and the demands of the Premier League - which effectively leaves behind any youngster who doesn't hit the ground running.

[Captain...]

The problem the England national team face is that they are competing with the premier league, and everyone from players, managers, to fans believe it is more important.

The other problem we face is that the best teams in England only have a few English internationals, compare that to Spain, where 90% of the squad comes from 2 teams and they are used to playing together, whereas the English squad has a couple of arsenal players, a few from man united, man city, Chelsea, spurs, Liverpool, then the odd one or two from Everton, west ham, Swansea.

The only way to get so many players from so many different clubs playing together is to make proper use of friendlies and spend more time together training, but every training session and friendly the squad just gets decimated by 'injuries' or the manager has to make concessions to the premier league managers and only play certain players for a half.

We will always be hamstrung by this until we prioritise the national team above all.

[davieG]

The problem the England national team face is that they are competing with the premier league, and everyone from players, managers, to fans believe it is more important.

The other problem we face is that the best teams in England only have a few English internationals, compare that to Spain, where 90% of the squad comes from 2 teams and they are used to playing together, whereas the English squad has a couple of arsenal players, a few from man united, man city, Chelsea, spurs, Liverpool, then the odd one or two from Everton, west ham, Swansea.

The only way to get so many players from so many different clubs playing together is to make proper use of friendlies and spend more time together training, but every training session and friendly the squad just gets decimated by 'injuries' or the manager has to make concessions to the premier league managers and only play certain players for a half.

We will always be hamstrung by this until we prioritise the national team above all.

One of the main justifications for the creation of the PL was that it would improve us at International level.

[Manwell Pablo]

The problem the England national team face is that they are competing with the premier league, and everyone from players, managers, to fans believe it is more important.

The other problem we face is that the best teams in England only have a few English internationals, compare that to Spain, where 90% of the squad comes from 2 teams and they are used to playing together, whereas the English squad has a couple of arsenal players, a few from man united, man city, Chelsea, spurs, Liverpool, then the odd one or two from Everton, west ham, Swansea.

The only way to get so many players from so many different clubs playing together is to make proper use of friendlies and spend more time together training, but every training session and friendly the squad just gets decimated by 'injuries' or the manager has to make concessions to the premier league managers and only play certain players for a half.

We will always be hamstrung by this until we prioritise the national team above all.

 

 

No it doesn't. Be willing to bet you they called up players from at least 10 different teams. They called up players from Liverpool Arsenal Manchester City and Chelsea for the last major tournament for one (2 of which played regularly another of which scored in the final)

[Dan]

The problem the England national team face is that they are competing with the premier league, and everyone from players, managers, to fans believe it is more important.

The other problem we face is that the best teams in England only have a few English internationals, compare that to Spain, where 90% of the squad comes from 2 teams and they are used to playing together, whereas the English squad has a couple of arsenal players, a few from man united, man city, Chelsea, spurs, Liverpool, then the odd one or two from Everton, west ham, Swansea.

The only way to get so many players from so many different clubs playing together is to make proper use of friendlies and spend more time together training, but every training session and friendly the squad just gets decimated by 'injuries' or the manager has to make concessions to the premier league managers and only play certain players for a half.

We will always be hamstrung by this until we prioritise the national team above all.

 

Interesting point actually about the distribution of players. Spain are Barca & Madrid plus Torres, Mata & Silva. Italy have about 6 Juventus players in their line up, Germany seem to be full of Bayern players with an increasing number of Dortmund etc... I think really though that's not anyone's fault, that's just the way it's panned out.

[Manwell Pablo]

One of the main justifications for the creation of the PL was that it would improve us at International level.

 

And in theory it should do.