UK 'intelligence' agency GCHQ revealed by Snowden to have programs to manipulate online public information.

[Haydos]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/14/gchq-tools-manipulate-online-information-leak

There seems to be new leaks every week now. We see what is happening in the US but the same things are happening right here as well.

They apparently have programs capable of data collection and automated postings to try and sway public opinion, manipulation of online opinion polls, artificially increasing traffic to certain websites, finding private photos of 'targets' on Facebook, to boost YouTube views or other popular messages and to masquerade Facebook wall posts for certain groups or even entire countries.

[leicsmac]

Yup...this isn't a new phenomenon.

Manipulating public opinion in this way is the logical answer to that pesky democratic Internet business bringing about the possibility for change. Can't shut it down or take measures against it because it's too big? Use and manipulate it to make sure that yours is the only opinion the majority of people hear. As long as you hit the popular places, democracy itself will do the rest.

[Jon the Hat]

There is also a very big difference between developing pilot software and using it. For a start there would have to be an actual targeted purpose, and then no doubt some approvals.

[Haydos]

There is also a very big difference between developing pilot software and using it. For a start there would have to be an actual targeted purpose, and then no doubt some approvals.

Is there? That's comes across as pretty naive to me.

What possible 'target' or reason could they have for manipulating the results of online polls? This is software designed to shape public opinion.

[Rincewind]

The target is the general public. But that has always been the case.At one time it was the pen, then oratory skills and now social media has been added to discreetly influence people's perception of things.

[MooseBreath]

Pretty mild stuff in this leak really. I'd be more surprised if an intelligence agency wasn't at least looking at this kind of thing. Their actual job is to stop others from doing such things so they do need to know a bit about how it works. With no evidence of them having actually used any of these techniques to the detriment of the public I can't see much to complain about here.

[Jon the Hat]

Is there? That's comes across as pretty naive to me.

What possible 'target' or reason could they have for manipulating the results of online polls? This is software designed to shape public opinion.

Public opinion about what? You would have to have an overall aim, like "gain popular support for Welfare reform" for example. Then someone would have to authorise the use of this pilot software in a real environment. Then it would have to work. Then we could be actually concerned about it.

Honestly dont see the concern. Use your own eyes and ears and you will be fine. The masses have always been controlled by the media message, this is just the new generation.

[Rincewind]

The spoken word is a powerful psychological weapon. Those in power have the means and resources to carry it out. We at the bottom do not. So who would gain more from it? I am sure it is not the ordinary working man.

[Jon the Hat]

Well if you assume that the Government would like more support for its policies, how do you think that is going? Have you been swayed to thinking the "cuts" are a good thing?

[Rincewind]

Not me

[Captain...]

The private sector does it all the time, nothing new, you reveal what they have been manipulating then I might be more interested, but anyone can buy likes and manipulate votes, when you consider that people are paid off to completely fabricate scientific findings, or the existence of weapons of mass destruction, what they are talking about here is quite interesting, but pretty insignificant really.

[Captain...]

Well if you assume that the Government would like more support for its policies, how do you think that is going? Have you been swayed to thinking the "cuts" are a good thing?

Are you suggesting that Moose is an automated Government program and not a real person? Deployed to target some of the brightest minds on the best internet forums in the land to sway debates in the government's favour? It would explain his constant trolling of Ken, and nobody has ever met him, maybe he is Agent Smith and Ken is Neo...

...There is no spoon!

[Jon the Hat]

Are you suggesting that Moose is an automated Government program and not a real person? Deployed to target some of the brightest minds on the best internet forums in the land to sway debates in the government's favour? It would explain his constant trolling of Ken, and nobody has ever met him, maybe he is Agent Smith and Ken is Neo...

...There is no spoon!

I am going to have to rethink my Swaybot software. Ken is just too hard to break!! Should i give Moose a nicer personality do you think? Be less of a tit?

[Babylon]

Would explain Messi winning player of the tournament.

[Nick]

I am going to have to rethink my Swaybot software. Ken is just too hard to break!! Should i give Moose a nicer personality do you think? Be less of a tit?

That would make him more plausible as a human. I often think 'nobody surely who's real or not a joke account could be this bigger tit.'

[Steven]

Public opinion about what? You would have to have an overall aim, like "gain popular support for Welfare reform" for example. Then someone would have to authorise the use of this pilot software in a real environment. Then it would have to work. Then we could be actually concerned about it.

Honestly dont see the concern. Use your own eyes and ears and you will be fine. The masses have always been controlled by the media message, this is just the new generation.

You think that is the role GCHQ, MI5, MI6, Special Branch and specialist units in the Met should be spending tax payers money on?

[Haydos]

Public opinion about what? You would have to have an overall aim, like "gain popular support for Welfare reform" for example. Then someone would have to authorise the use of this pilot software in a real environment. Then it would have to work. Then we could be actually concerned about it.

Honestly dont see the concern. Use your own eyes and ears and you will be fine. The masses have always been controlled by the media message, this is just the new generation.

But the masses have never had so much exposure to potential manipulation/propaganda/etc.

In regards to the first point "Then someone would have to authorise the use of this pilot software in a real environment"....Are you seriously saying that the government will follow laws and correct procedure when snooping on people or selecting what gets more exposure in public domain/social networks/etc?

[Merging Cultures]

Is it called wikipedia? Do they just go on and change history?

[MooseBreath]

That would make him more plausible as a human. I often think 'nobody surely who's real or not a joke account could be this bigger tit.'

"This big of a" you illiterate pleb.

[FoxesAreBlue]

"This big of a" you illiterate pleb.

lol

[Jon the Hat]

You think that is the role GCHQ, MI5, MI6, Special Branch and specialist units in the Met should be spending tax payers money on?

I would be concerned if they didnt have the capability yes. You think we should leave it to the Chinese or Russians to corner the market in manipulating public opinion?

But the masses have never had so much exposure to potential manipulation/propaganda/etc.

In regards to the first point "Then someone would have to authorise the use of this pilot software in a real environment"....Are you seriously saying that the government will follow laws and correct procedure when snooping on people or selecting what gets more exposure in public domain/social networks/etc?

I am not sure that is true really. I think we reach saturation point pretty quickly. Yes I think in general people in power in the UK will follow the law.

"This big of a" you illiterate pleb.

Shit! I turned the knob the wrong way. Sorry! Try again Moose.

[leicsmac]

I would be concerned if they didnt have the capability yes. You think we should leave it to the Chinese or Russians to corner the market in manipulating public opinion?

I am not sure that is true really. I think we reach saturation point pretty quickly. Yes I think in general people in power in the UK will follow the law.

Shit! I turned the knob the wrong way. Sorry! Try again Moose.

Let me get this right Jon. You're advocating the manipulation of popular opinion to trick/manipulate/lure people into adopting a particular stance on world and other events?

I'm sorry man, but that's utterly abhorrent. The fact that the Chinese and Russians do it should make no nevermind to the fact that that is a massive violation of the freedom of will - the most fundamental freedom of them all.

Is nothing - not even our minds - free any more?

[Steven]

Let me get this right Jon. You're advocating the manipulation of popular opinion to trick/manipulate/lure people into adopting a particular stance on world and other events?

I'm sorry man, but that's utterly abhorrent. The fact that the Chinese and Russians do it should make no nevermind to the fact that that is a massive violation of the freedom of will - the most fundamental freedom of them all.

Is nothing - not even our minds - free any more?

Quite. This. +1

[Guest MattP]

Let's be honest it's happens everywhere, we are manipulated into thinking how government wants us too and started off on their social engineering course from the first day of school in this day and age.

This looks pretty mild to everything else.

[Haydos]

I am not sure that is true really. I think we reach saturation point pretty quickly. Yes I think in general people in power in the UK will follow the law.

This is what I don't agree with then.

I don't think it's about how much we (I say we, I mean Joe Public) are influced, it's what we are influenced to think, what we are lead to believe is worth getting worked up about and what we see that other people think.

I don't think the people in power would be troubled by preventing certain videos (encouraging the questioning of certain government decisions for example) from gaining 'shares' on facebook, therefore limiting the amount of people who know about the subject. Couple this with the spreading of other videos sharing the opposing views on a platform like Facebook and you can manipulate peoples views by the millions. It's not just propaganda any more, it's censoring news, education, reports, anything they don't agree with.

It happens in the US, I'm not sure why it's so farfetched that it's happening here as well.