IS the quality better in the bottom half of the Prem? Or are we simply playing poorly?

[Col city fan]

The past few weeks on here have been a little reminiscent of the start of our long run of bad form under Pearson.

Some players are already getting it in the neck: this week it's been Schlupp who, for some forum members, shouldn't even be playing football!

In previous weeks, the target has been David Nugent.

This makes me beg the question of 'expectation'. Quite frequently, I think, some people have suggested that teams like West Brom, Sunderland and others are 'there for the taking', so to speak. Some of our fans seem to think we have an almost automatic right to beat sides like these. 'We are simply better'.. some suggest.

I don't agree. I've never agreed with this argument that the top of the Championship is as strong as the bottom half of the Prem. For me, it just doesn't wash. QPR and Burnley aside, I think anyone else could walk the Championship. And I even include in that sides like Sunderland who can be awful, but still strong on their day.

Are our fans under-estimating our competition? Are we doing as well as we could expect or better, or worse?

Have our players suddenly become terrible? And where do people see us come, say Christmas time?

Opinions please. ..

[davieG]

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/97620-the-gap-between-the-championship-and-pl/

[tylesta]

players don't become terrible overnight.

i will panic if we are in the bottom 3 losing ground.

[sylofox]

All the talk before the season start and just after was bollox to me.

6 worse sides in the prem plus we are better than Burnley and QPR makes you laugh though.

 

Listen to some we are the worst side ever in the prem after a few games.

People just need to get real we will have good spells followed by bad ones.

 

As I have said before this is when the club and players need us.

Turning on the team and players won't help anyone.

 

Then we will have like last season at the start why is drinky doing this and Vardy doing that to the fans.

 

Why? cos the end of the previous season fans where on there backs thats fvcking why.

[Corky]

Hang on a minute, in the fairness of balance Col, you've been criticising Cambiasso recently, quite heavily too, even asking whether he has to be picked every week.

 

I think we haven't played with the same tempo and ambition as we had in the first few games, we seem to be more conservative and less willing to really take the game to the opposition. The quality is much better however, Crystal Palace and Newcastle are not great but are far, far stronger than Barnsley, Millwall, Charlton who were rolled over last season. We ground out a fair few results against QPR, Burnley, Derby away, it was only Derby at home where we tore apart a top Championship side.

 

We are not doomed at all, we need to turn these tight games into positive results, as we did last season.

[Happy Fox]

Survival is the aim, and always has been the sooner we secure it the better need another 31 points approximately from 30 games more than achievable if we can replicate the form we showed in our first 5 games, from and then we can start planning to really build our football club and take it to the next level, and bring in better quality players and maybe do a Southampton in time.

 

But one step at a time of course I think the majority of City fans would be pleased with the season so far, we obviously have room for improvement which is good.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

I don't "expect" us to be able to beat every team purely by ability, but I do "expect" professional footballers to be able to pass to one another and put in 100% effort, two things that have been distinctly lacking in our last three games. 

[Donut]

I would say the bottom half of the Premiership has significantly more quality than all but an exceptional championship team thats destined for promotion and a high 90s points total.

 

You only have to look at the amount of  "game changers" that almost all teams can field, plus the fact that when presented chances, teams seem much more clinical in taking them that shows you have to be "at it" and switched on completely to take 3 points from a game.

 

There are definitely NO "there for the taking" games this season, and that includes at home IMO.

[Bamba's Babes]

We've picked up 1 point from games vs Palace, Newcastle and Burnley and we're sitting as comfortable as you can be after 8 games. We're on a bad run, although I do believe we are just average in the Prem at the moment, no better or no worse which isn't too bad for a newly promoted team.

[Kitchandro]

Nah, sorry Col, we've been playing poorly.

 

We matched Everton, Arsenal & Man Utd on the day. Why? Because we played well and with the right attitude.

 

Had we played the same against much poorer sides like Newcastle, Burnley and Palace, there's no good reason why we couldn't have got a similar points return as we did against them (5 points) if not more.

 

I don't believe that anyone who has watched all of our games can say that we haven't performed well below our best in the last 3. And especially if you saw us play last season as well. That has nothing to do with the opposition either - things like pressing, high tempo, style of play are all things we should be in control of doing. Whether it works quite as effectively at this level is a different matter, but you are not prevented from trying to do those things in the right way. We were doing those things right in the first 5 games, now we're not.

 

I think it's plainly obvious from the last 30 minutes on Saturday that Newcastle were there for the taking. We looked far superior to them once we started playing the way we usually play. Sadly, we did not take our chances and with us chasing the game it was always going to be more difficult than it would have been had we played that way at 0-0.

 

Of course Newcastle are better than most Championship sides but so are we.

[HitchinFox]

There have been plenty of things to be encouraged about so far this season:

 

1. We've come from behind against some good teams to get points (Arsenal, Everton, ManU).

2. Chelsea are running away with the league yet we held our own at their place.

3. Even when we've played badly (Palace, Newcastle) we haven't been embarrassed. 

4. We showed that we are capable of being able to win while not playing particularly well (Stoke). Had Matty scored his chance at The Toon, we probably would've won that one too. 

 

However, there are a couple of things to be concerned about

 

1. Not having the composure and maturity to secure a win against a pretty terrible Burnley side at home.

2. Nige's selections at times are puzzling - there doesn't be a "best XI". It's ok to mix things up and change tactics according to the opponent - but if those players then don't perform and lose the game, the manager should be blamed.

 

But to answer your questions, Col:
 

1. Are our fans under-estimating our competition?

Personally, I'm not. I believe on our day we can hold our own against anyone – especially at home – but there are no gimmies at this level. Each point is worth its weight in gold. I would be happy with a 17th position finish. Means we stayed up. That is, quite literally, all that matters in our first season back.

 

I think that you have good reason to ask this question though, as it seems that some of our fans forget that each team in this league will fight tooth and nail for those three points on offer. And there are no weak teams. Every single team is laced with international players.

 

2. Are we doing as well as we could expect or better, or worse?

 

Two sides to this. After getting points against Everton, Arsenal, Man United (and Stoke away, which is a hard place to go) the last three games against perceived weaker teams has been disappointing.

Having said that, if our results were as follows, would we be happier?

 

Everton D 2-2

Chelsea L 0-2

Arsenal L 0-1

Stoke D 2-2

Man U L 0-2

Palace W 1-0
Burnley W 5-3
Newcastle D 1-1

 

Exactly the same scores but against different teams. Exactly the same amount of points. But had our season gone like that, we'd probably be saying how we knew the start would be difficult and how we are now unbeaten in three and finding our level etc. 

In short, look at what people said before the season and I think we are doing pretty much as we would've hoped to be doing. I think the amazing start to the season we had meant that people's expectation levels were increased (threads about Europa League etc.). Hopefully there is now a bit more realism in them. 

Personally, I'm very happy with our points total so far. Last three games have been a bit iffy, but we'll be ok. 

 

3. Have our players suddenly become terrible?
 

Of course not. But you know this already. You're playing the devil's advocate here so I'll leave it for others to bite!

 

4. And where do people see us come, say Christmas time?

 

If we can keep outside the relegation zone all season I will be happy. And I expect us to be clear of the bottom three at Christmas. Not by a mile, probably, but enough breathing space to not feel overtly pressured to make panicky transfers. 

I have faith in this team and squad. We've already seen glimpses of what it's capable. Some poor performances too, granted, but that's just the Leicester way, isn't it? Play the best against the best and save the crap against the crap? 

[kingfox]

What annoyed me was when fans were saying before the season, that we are already better than about 8 teams in the Premier League, that was basically saying we will easily finish top 12.

 

You can take points off the big teams all you like, but we need to start taking points off the teams who will be around us, and so far we haven't managed to do that, and the most concerning thing is that, we have played pretty crap against those type of sides.

 

The teams who will be around us, have just as many talented players than we do, some even have International quality players.

 

In our next five games we have Swansea, West Brom, Southampton, Sunderland & QPR. All of which bar Southampton, on paper we are capable of taking points off, if we don't win those two home games, our bright start will turn into panic mode.

[Dan LCFC]

My opinion is a lot of them are not great sides - and it's easy to think that we can properly get at them when we've gotten at this summers big spenders in serious style.

 

The frustrating thing is we know we can play better than this.

 

I believe we are a better side than Newcastle. In-fact, I think nearly everyone is. I don't know how many agree with me here but I thought they were utterly beyond woeful on Saturday. Long ball after long ball, mistake after mistake and for all their defensive football they weren't even remotely solid at the back. Newcastle were genuinely there for the taking and we managed to actually lose the game. That infuriates me immensely.

 

You don't get nearly as many good chances to win games in this league but I think our last two games are as good a two games as we'll get all season and we took one point. That is concerning at best.

[Fox Ulike]

West ham and Villa only won 4 away games in the whole of last season. Stoke only won 3, yet finished 9^th.

 

Any away point is a bonus. OK it’s not great to lose two away in a row, but this is the way the Premier League works.  Every team is going to give us a really hard time away from home, and anyone who thinks that we should be getting something from these games has got delusions of grandeur.

 

I think we have simply been naïve in going to Palace with such an attacking line-up, and then in being caught out on the break against Newcastle.

 

The only bad result we have had all season is dropping two points at home to Burnley. If Matty James doesn’t make that stupid tackle, then we’re sitting 9^th and above Tottenham, and Pearson is the next England manager.

 

So. We are doing well, but we really need to stop playing so naively away from home. That’s all.

[Stadt]

I think a lot are overrating ourselves

[Dan LCFC]

West ham and Villa only won 4 away games in the whole of last season. Stoke only won 3, yet finished 9^th.

 

Any away point is a bonus. OK it’s not great to lose two away in a row, but this is the way the Premier League works.  Every team is going to give us a really hard time away from home, and anyone who thinks that we should be getting something from these games has got delusions of grandeur.

 

I think we have simply been naïve in going to Palace with such an attacking line-up, and then in being caught out on the break against Newcastle.

 

The only bad result we have had all season is dropping two points at home to Burnley. If Matty James doesn’t make that stupid tackle, then we’re sitting 9^th and above Tottenham, and Pearson is the next England manager.

 

So. We are doing well, but we really need to stop playing so naively away from home. That’s all.

 

You don't think losing at a side who hadn't won in 6 months, who had lost 9 of their last 14 at home isn't a bad result? I'd say that's about on a par with Burnley unfortunately.

[Fox Ulike]

You don't think losing at a side who hadn't won in 6 months, who had lost 9 of their last 14 at home isn't a bad result? I'd say that's about on a par with Burnley unfortunately.

 

It's a bit harsh to criticise Newcastle for not winning during June and July don't you think?

 

You say it's a "bad result".

 

I said "it's not great".

 

What, exactly, are you disputing other than a thesaurus definitions of "not great". ?

[Dan LCFC]

It's a bit harsh to criticise Newcastle for not winning during June and July don't you think?

 

You say it's a "bad result".

 

I said "it's not great".

 

What, exactly, are you disputing other than a thesaurus definitions of "not great". ?

 

You said that Burnley at home was the only bad result we've had.

 

Where have you actually said the words 'not great' because I can't see them.

 

Newcastle hadn't won all season and are in as much disarray as any team in the league. It's very poor to lose to that, regardless of how big or intimidating the place is.

[yorkie1999]

Can't judge anything until 10 games in, before that teams are finding their feet and players are getting their fitness. I think on our recent performances Man u, Everton and Arsenal would all beat us and we would be sat on 4 points at the bottom of the league.

[paddy Agyemang]

Bottom line is I don't care who we lose to asking as we stay up

[Fox Ulike]

You said that Burnley at home was the only bad result we've had.

 

Where have you actually said the words 'not great' because I can't see them.

 

Newcastle hadn't won all season and are in as much disarray as any team in the league. It's very poor to lose to that, regardless of how big or intimidating the place is.

 

Should of gone to specsavers mate.

 

I used them in my post which I had assumed you'd read before commenting on and quoting. You just need to scroll up about 2 yards. Put some effort in!

 

So your "bad result" is now "very poor". Things are getting worse all the time. Can't wait to see what it will be next time: "Catacylsmic"?

[roger the dodger]

we are not setting it on fire but we are not playing that bad. could be worse we could be Qpr or burnley

[Trav Le Bleu]

Of course the PL is more difficult, that is why it is the "Premier" League. We had games last season where we didn't play well and won, because it is an inferior league. We need to realise that we can't do that so much in this league and if memory serves me right (it often doesn't) NP has mentioned this in interviews.

[red5]

I just love the title

[Col city fan]

I just love the title

You want to think yourself lucky I didn't add a poll...