LCFCCKEANO Posted 24 November 2014 Share Posted 24 November 2014 I dont get why people use the excuse for not starting our new signings as 'they aren't proven' or 'well, we used -insert last seasons player here' last year and it worked'... If we dont try them, how will they ever prove themselves, and what was the point of signing them. If our new signings cant get a sniff when we havent scored in god knows how long and have been utterly poor for the majority of it, what was the point of signing them. Not a Pearson out rant, I fully trust him, just saying we screwed up the last window pretty bad and the untried excuse is just silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 24 November 2014 Share Posted 24 November 2014 Ain't you got it yet? they were all signed as a tax dodge..jeeez.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1742 Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Looking last week at the U21's, we had Lawrence and Simpson in there. Both did okay, but on those performances I would not pick them ahead of what we have already got. Let's face it, it's an incredibly hard league and nobody is going to come in and are suddenly world beaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCCKEANO Posted 25 November 2014 Author Share Posted 25 November 2014 All I was saying is when peope completely write them off before seeing them for more then 20 minutes of a game ie Simpson, Powell, Albrighton(minus a terrible newcastle game from the whole squad), I cant understand why, calling them unproven, how else are they meant to prove themselves. All 3 played in the prem before and all 3 have done well, 2 of these have been regular prem players for bigger clubs. Give them a chance, we have for Hammond and Nugent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 "What was the point in signing them". The point in signing them was so that we had a squad of players to cover injuries, suspensions, Africa Cup of Nations. Do people think we could go until January with 11 players and that's it or something. Why is so hard to understand about that? "If we dont try them, how will they ever prove themselves" They prove themselves to the management in training, in behind closed door friendlies, in under 21 games. This notion of us having to give everyone a try in a premier league game to see if they are any good is beyond me. I think what you are saying is you've not seen them in training, in friendlies, in under 21 games, so you want to see for yourself if they are good enough and the only time you can do that is in a first team game. Well that's tough, neither you, me or the next man pick the team so whether we think we've seen them enough to judge doesn't matter as other people are better placed to make the judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettsj2 Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 "What was the point in signing them". The point in signing them was so that we had a squad of players to cover injuries, suspensions, Africa Cup of Nations. Do people think we could go until January with 11 players and that's it or something. Why is so hard to understand about that? "If we dont try them, how will they ever prove themselves" They prove themselves to the management in training, in behind closed door friendlies, in under 21 games. This notion of us having to give everyone a try in a premier league game to see if they are any good is beyond me. I think what you are saying is you've not seen them in training, in friendlies, in under 21 games, so you want to see for yourself if they are good enough and the only time you can do that is in a first team game. Well that's tough, neither you, me or the next man pick the team so whether we think we've seen them enough to judge doesn't matter as other people are better placed to make the judgement. The 'What's the point in signing them' comment is probably said out of frustration more than anything else. We're not doing well at the moment and we've got recent signings not being used. It's frustrating. The 'you dont see them in training' argument is a fair point, but under Pearson and his management team, we're used to signings coming in, playing and improving the team. Nigel himself has said many times that he would only bring players in that improve the quality already here. If this is the case, surely they should be in and around the starting 11? I'm not having an anti-Pearson dig here, just looking at it from our experience of this management team and their previously carefully selected transfers compared to now. There is obviously no gaurantee when you sign a player of what you are getting but to take Powell as an example. If ITK's are to be believed, we've been monitoring Powell for a couple of years now. I think Bert has even said that we've tried to sign him before. If that is the case, you would think the only reason to bring him here is to play and improve the team, not just to play U21 football. Like you say though, the management know them better than us so we have to trust their judgement. Its just frustrating to see whats happening on the pitch and not knowing why these guys arent in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callabinho Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Maybe Nigel with the budget given couldn't improve the squad like he wanted. So they had to turn to the 'other players', it's never as simple as we think it is, they could have been signed purely for squad depth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 There is obviously no gaurantee when you sign a player of what you are getting but to take Powell as an example. If ITK's are to be believed, we've been monitoring Powell for a couple of years now. I think Bert has even said that we've tried to sign him before. If that is the case, you would think the only reason to bring him here is to play and improve the team, not just to play U21 football. It could be the management are taking an opportunity to look at him with a view to a permanent move. He's always had the cloud hanging over him with regards his attitude, that's something you won't know about without working with the lad. It be be that first choice options fell through and we were left with getting in someone further down the list. As I posted the other day about what our scout said on twitter... "The gulf between top targets & others can often be very large. Therefore it's difficult if top targets become unavailable Despite having hierarchical shortlists of 'similar' players, preferences certainly exist for top targets over the others". We know we missed out on quite a few players for whatever reason, I think that's what we're left dealing with now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 "What was the point in signing them". The point in signing them was so that we had a squad of players to cover injuries, suspensions, Africa Cup of Nations. Do people think we could go until January with 11 players and that's it or something. Why is so hard to understand about that? "If we dont try them, how will they ever prove themselves" They prove themselves to the management in training, in behind closed door friendlies, in under 21 games. This notion of us having to give everyone a try in a premier league game to see if they are any good is beyond me. I think what you are saying is you've not seen them in training, in friendlies, in under 21 games, so you want to see for yourself if they are good enough and the only time you can do that is in a first team game. Well that's tough, neither you, me or the next man pick the team so whether we think we've seen them enough to judge doesn't matter as other people are better placed to make the judgement. This is correct but it does raise questions about their judgement with a few of them. It's unlike them to get it wrong as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettsj2 Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 It could be the management are taking an opportunity to look at him with a view to a permanent move. He's always had the cloud hanging over him with regards his attitude, that's something you won't know about without working with the lad. It be be that first choice options fell through and we were left with getting in someone further down the list. As I posted the other day about what our scout said on twitter... "The gulf between top targets & others can often be very large. Therefore it's difficult if top targets become unavailable Despite having hierarchical shortlists of 'similar' players, preferences certainly exist for top targets over the others". We know we missed out on quite a few players for whatever reason, I think that's what we're left dealing with now. You're probably right. Nigel said many times he wanted more firepower and we were definitely in for more than Ulloa. Its a shame we werent able to secure them for whatever reason that might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 This is correct but it does raise questions about their judgement with a few of them. It's unlike them to get it wrong as well. I don't think it does really, as my scout quote shows they know that the difference between target 1 on the list and target 3 can be very big. What should we do, not sign anyone or go with someone further down the list who isn't as good or they aren't as sure about? There has been other posts from him where he talks about it being frustrating but satisfying to see previous targets succeed at the top level. Frustrating that we didn't get them, satisfying that their scouting system works etc. Clearly we've been frustrated in our attempts this summer and it's caused some of these problems. I think we've been spoilt somewhat really with signings like Mahrez for £400k to the extent we all expect to pull diamonds from nowhere all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royston. Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Maybe Nigel with the budget given couldn't improve the squad like he wanted. So they had to turn to the 'other players', it's never as simple as we think it is, they could have been signed purely for squad depth? Would Man Utd agree to loan us Powell and Lawrence if they were hardly going to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjslcfc Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Would Man Utd agree to loan us Powell and Lawrence if they were hardly going to play? We bought Lawrence. But I agree about Powell. I do find it a little strange how we've loaned him yet he's hardly played. Surely United were expecting him to play a lot more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCCKEANO Posted 25 November 2014 Author Share Posted 25 November 2014 With our extensive scouting surely we shouldve seen the players enough beforehand to know whether they could make the first team. Despite a lack of goals, we have barely seen powell, and youd expect with the pearson quote and our scouting they should maybe not buy players that arent going into improve our first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Lisemore Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Considering Danny Simpson cost us £2M? I'm a bit disappointed to not even see him in Matchday squads. Ritchie, as we know, has looked far from comfortable this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted 30 November 2014 Share Posted 30 November 2014 May be nothing, but may this have something to do with it? http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/danny-simpson-assault-gbh-withington-7177220 Can't see anything that gives an outcome. Could it be that this is still ongoing and for whatever reason that's why he's not playing? Seems odd that we signed someone with this hanging over them if it hasn't reached a conclusion yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesta2014 Posted 1 December 2014 Share Posted 1 December 2014 I was told he's going to prison for something that happened at qpr and that's why he isn't playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpicko Posted 1 December 2014 Share Posted 1 December 2014 I was told he's going to prison for something that happened at qpr and that's why he isn't playing! :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 1 December 2014 Share Posted 1 December 2014 The disappointment for me so far has been not seeing more of young Powell. I thought he'd really kick on this season and, of them all, look to be a very able signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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