The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[davieG]

I don't know the answer as there's so many conflicting views I guess the safe option is to renegotiate but what would need to change and what would be acceptable to make us stick with it?

 

If you have a view or find some interesting comments elsewhere post them in here to enlighten us all.

[kingcarr21]

You do the Wasilewski and you turn around, Thats what its all about.

 

 

WHOOOOAAAAA Wasilewski

 

 

(Guarantee before everyone opened this thread these magic words were going through your head from reading the title)

[DennisNedry]

There's so many differing opinions from politicians, businesses, experts/analysts etc and so much propaganda on both sides of the debate that it's very difficult to actually get the facts and make an informed decision. The only way we'd really find out what it would be like outside of the EU is actually leave it and see.

[bovril]

I'm quite sceptical of the organisation itself. I like the free movement of people and trade though I can understand the arguments against, especially from smaller countries that lose their workforce. In some parts of Poland there is a lack of qualified doctors and nurses, which is absurd considering it's a relatively rich country.

 

On the other hand a lot of the anti-EU movement seems to be shouty, Express-reading types. A bit like with the Scottish referendum, the more nationalistic elements would put me off really getting behind a pull-out.

 

I'll probably just toss a coin.

[lgfualol]

I think we need better powers and stuff, but I hope we stay in it. 

[bovril]

You do the Wasilewski and you turn around, Thats what its all about.

 

 

WHOOOOAAAAA Wasilewski

 

 

(Guarantee before everyone opened this thread these magic words were going through your head from reading the title)

 

Could his job not be done by an out-of-work Englishman though? Liam Moore, for example?

 

Actually don't answer that.

[davieG]

What do UK firms think about a possible 'Brexit'?

By Matthew WallBusiness reporter, BBC News

• 14 May 2015
•  
• From the sectionBusiness

Could the prime minister's in-out referendum on EU membership "backfire"?

 

Prime Minister David Cameron has promised an in-out referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union before the end of 2017.

Most business lobby groups seem to be broadly in favour of staying in a reformed EU, and their member surveys reflect this view.

But what is the reality of doing business with Europe? Is there too much red tape and bureaucracy?

What effect could a Brexit - the inelegant short-hand for Britain leaving Europe - have on UK businesses?

 

The BBC canvassed a variety of businesses for their views.

 

Name: Tony Attard Position: Group chief executive Company: Panaz, based in Burnley, Lancashire Size: Less than £10m annual turnover; about 100 employees
Tony Attard says pulling out of Europe "would cost jobs without a doubt"

"We export about £3m of goods a year to Europe - it's an incredibly important market for us," says Tony Attard, boss of a 30-year-old company making textiles for hotels, hospitals and offices.

"If we pulled out and I lost £2m of business it would cost jobs without a doubt. It's a big threat."

Standard product testing and harmonisation of raw materials tariffs have been beneficial for his business, he says, as have pan-European trade agreements.

"It's a ridiculous thing to say that being out of Europe would make us more competitive and nimble. We shouldn't take if for granted that we would have access to an open market if we pulled out."

Regulatory red tape from Brussels is often cited as a frustration for business, particularly when it comes to employment law and health and safety issues.

But Mr Attard says: "UK business rates are more of an issue to us than the working time directive."

Panaz makes textile products for hotels, hospitals and offices

Name: John Mills Position: Founder Company: JML Group, London Size: £100m annual turnover; 350 employees
John Mills thinks a referendum on EU membership will help us make up our minds "once and for all"

"We really need a referendum to make up our minds once and for all whether we're going to be in Europe and make a go of it, or go our separate ways," says John Mills, founder of global consumer products company JML Group.

The Labour party donor and co-chairman of lobby group, Business for Britain, says: "I don't think it would make much difference economically if we were in or out, but I'm quite open minded on the issue.

"I just think we need to change our terms of membership and repatriate some powers from Brussels to Westminster. I don't think Britain wants to be part of a 'United States of Europe'."

The costs of membership, at £14bn-£15bn a year, are too high, he adds, while some of the regulations coming from Europe "can make business less competitive".

Name: Lesley Moody Position: Managing director Company: AES Digital Solutions, Billingham, Teesside Size: Less than £1m annual turnover; seven employees
Lesley Moody fears UK business being "drowned in EU red tape"

"I want to have my cake and eat it," admits Lesley Moody, boss of a digital media company developing software for local government and the food and beverage industry.

"I favour being involved in Europe, but I don't want to be drawn further in," she says.

With many of her customers based in Europe, she accepts that a single market is beneficial, but says: "I want us to be able to have a say but be able to opt out when they propose something that's not in our interests."

She fears being "drowned in red tape" and that the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership being negotiated between the EU and the US could put some UK businesses at a competitive disadvantage.

Name: Tim Squires Position: Commercial director Company: Squires Gear & Engineering, Coventry Size: £1.2m annual turnover; 16 employees
Tim Squires says "this referendum could really backfire"

"This referendum could really backfire," says Tim Squires, commercial director of a family firm making machine parts for the automotive industry. "The lack of information has clouded a lot of people's judgement."

"Although we're not a huge exporter, a lot of our parts go into products that are then sold to Europe, so import duties would be a big issue if we left the EU."

But Mr Squires, along with many other smaller businesses, thinks the UK pays a lot into the EU but doesn't seem to get enough back in return. And he thinks there's too much confusion over which legislation comes from Brussels or Westminster.

That said, remaining part of the European club brings more benefits than disadvantages, he believes.

"The EU is our biggest trading partner and if we're not in that we're going to be left out in the cold."

Coventry-based Squires Gear & Engineering makes parts for the automotive industry

Name: Geoff Billington Position: Sales director Company: International Safety Products, Bootle/Birkenhead, Merseyside Size: Less than £15m annual turnover; 120 employees
Geoff Billington says curbing the free movement of labour would have a "negative impact"

For Geoff Billington, sales director for International Safety Products (ISP), one of the world's largest life jacket manufacturers, the new government's demands to curb EU immigration are a concern.

"Curbing free movement of labour could have a negative impact on our business and possibly make us less competitive," he says.

About a quarter of ISP's staff are immigrants from countries like Poland, Lithuania, Hungary and Romania, he says, and they are prized for their machine skills and work ethic. Not being able to employ such workers could also put the wage bill up, he believes.

ISP sells about 70% of its output to Europe, and the single market presents "no barriers to entry for us. If we left, we could suffer from protectionism."

Mr Billington would even be happy for the UK to join the euro to remove exchange rate risks, he says. But he does want reform - anything that can stabilise the exchange rate - and the UK's contribution to the EU pot to be reduced.

International Safety Products makes life jackets and other safety equipment

Name: Nadeem Raza Position: Chief executive Company: Microlise, based near Nottingham Size: £30m annual turnover; 300 employees
Nadeem Raza thinks the referendum introduces unnecessary risk for his business

"We would prefer the referendum not to be happening," says Nadeem Raza, boss of Microlise, a medium-sized business making the technology that monitors lorry fleets.

More than half its products are exported to Europe and other markets abroad.

"A lot of our contracts are four-to-seven years long, so we're committing to pricing and servicing levels now when we don't know what's going to happen after 2017. That's a lot of risk we could do without," he says.

"We'd rather things stay as they are until we have a really good reason to change it."

His customers, mostly supermarkets and delivery companies with large lorry fleets operating throughout Europe, would certainly benefit from greater pan-European standardisation, he believes.

Leaving Europe would make this much more difficult.

 

Probably easier to read here.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32689167

[foxoffderby]

Out. 

I would prefer the UK having control of our own destiny and being able to make our own choices. 

[Rincewind]

I don't know enough about it to comment  fully. I would probably abstain or vote to stay in. I saw an article once which says many of the things people object to would still be in place as they are rules outside the EU and the EU cannot change them.

Don't ask for a link. It was over a year ago  when Farage started it off.

[darko2k7]

In but im only thinking from a football point of view . No more champions league no euro's less money and  players coming to our leagues ect

[David Guiza]

Had the joy of studying EU Law as one of my modules when at Uni, as well as Human Rights Law, and it really is tough. I think we definitely need a greater choice on our own matters, one particular one that the EU will not relent over is us not allowing prisoners to vote for example, as well as accepting whole life sentences in the Lee Rigby case - both of which I completley agree with, I think a whole life sentence is justified in the correct circumstances and I also don't feel prisoners should be allowed to vote.

However, on the flip side, the EU protects the vulnerable, as well as preventing missuse of power by Government officials, something that can never be taken for granted. The amount of EU laws and regulations passed that directly affect us is also greatly inflated by many people, in reality it's very little and in most cases it's only used as persuasive authority, as proved by us turning our backs on the afore mentioned matters.

[Jon the Hat]

The problem with the EU is pretty fundamental.  At its heart are people who want a federal United States of Europe.  They are quite clear and unequivocal on this.  The British people on the other hand want no such thing, so we have a a clear point that if that is the route that the main countries choose, we will not follow.

You are left then with what we really signed up to, which is an economic free trade zone.  Is it worth remaining in an outer circle of the EU to retain the free trade?  Personally I think it isn't, as we could achieve that much more cheaply and with better control outside the EU.  Unless someone managed to convince me otherwise I would vote to come out, as long as we can put in place trade agreements so it is economically business as usual, but politically and legally more free.

[Finnegan]

In. Almost all of the common arguments against are just stupidly misinformed and based on tabloid sensationalism.

We can amend our welfare laws, for example, to discourage European migration if we want to without leaving Europe.

I wouldn't want the euro but other than that stick with them.

[Jon the Hat]

Had the joy of studying EU Law as one of my modules when at Uni, as well as Human Rights Law, and it really is tough. I think we definitely need a greater choice on our own matters, one particular one that the EU will not relent over is us not allowing prisoners to vote for example, as well as accepting whole life sentences in the Lee Rigby case - both of which I completley agree with, I think a whole life sentence is justified in the correct circumstances and I also don't feel prisoners should be allowed to vote.

However, on the flip side, the EU protects the vulnerable, as well as preventing missuse of power by Government officials, something that can never be taken for granted. The amount of EU laws and regulations passed that directly affect us is also greatly inflated by many people, in reality it's very little and in most cases it's only used as persuasive authority, as proved by us turning our backs on the afore mentioned matters.

 

As long as the officials are not in fact EU officials, or EC officials.  You just push the problems upwards to were it is more expensive, and where the media and voters have no power to remove anyone, so that is clearly worse for me.

In. Almost all of the arguments against are just stupidly misinformed and based on tabloid sensationalism.

We can amend our welfare laws, for example, to discourage European migration if we want to without leaving Europe.

I wouldn't want the euro but other than that stick with them.

 

Would you want the federal Europe that those in power in Europe want though?  And if not, then why stay in?

[ADK]

I'm ambivalent to the EU so which way I vote depends on the strength of the "In" or "Out" campaigns. We don't need the EU and they don't need us. The Swiss model would work for us quite well.

 

We currently lose about £13Billion a year to the EU and that would help balance the books quite nicely. The EU also interferes in areas like aerospace and the automotive industry to favour its own manufacturers and imposes import duties on non-EU goods which as an island with historical trading links outside the EU, this doesn't help us.

 

On the other hand, we do need to stay in the common market and the freedom of movement of labour is an important part of our current economic growth. We would still need to adhere to EU wide standardisations to remain competitive. We would likely still contribute something to Europe, as Switzerland does, although probably in the region of £2Billion or less.

 

We would lose our MEPs, and therefore our influence on European policy would be greatly diminished. But we have never really engaged with the European Parliament as a nation anyway.

 

I feel that whatever is decided, it is important to settle the matter, at least for the next 20 years or so. It will harm the economy simply having this referendum due to the economic uncertainty it will create. I also hope that the government is willing to prepare for both outcomes and doesn't try as with Scotland to not draw up a plan for a UK exit in order to scare people into voting "In".

[SMX11]

Leave. We only really want a trade relationship, the constitutional treaty was a sure sign that the EU wants all of its laws to be superior to our own and frankly the whole system is anti-democratic and alien to the principles of English law.

The whole project will collapse if they continue to sort powers without a democratic mandate.

[Poznan34]

In but im only thinking from a football point of view . No more champions league no euro's less money and  players coming to our leagues ect

You don't have to be in the EU to be in the Champions League!

[David Guiza]

As long as the officials are not in fact EU officials, or EC officials.  You just push the problems upwards to were it is more expensive, and where the media and voters have no power to remove anyone, so that is clearly worse for me.

True, but there is very little else to monitor the moves of Parliament. Yes it's somewhat undemorcratic, but so are many of the ways in which we make law in this country. It's all well and good listing the restraints and negatives that the EU has brougth with it, as there are many, but it's also brought some huge benefits for the 'every man', such as preventing rip off phone tariffs, pesticide control, monitors on food labelling, free movement of persons, as well as competition law.  

The idea of a federal Europe doesn't appeal to me at all, but neither does Parilament having a free reign. Anybody have an up to date opinion poll on it? I'd imagine out is growing.

[Kopfkino]

An EU exit would be swiftly followed by a break up of the UK

Better to be an active part of a reformed Europe than outside of it

[purpleronnie]

Staying in the EU is essential. 

[bovril]

An EU exit would be swiftly followed by a break up of the UK

Better to be an active part of a reformed Europe than outside of it

 

Perhaps. The Irish question is an interesting one, especially if we pull out of the EU.

[ramboacdc]

we won't leave. its scaremongering. 

[Strokes]

Out, Jon the hat has covered my opinion much better than I would have.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Stay in, membership to the EU doesn't mean soon as we're out we can go in a free for all, as far as I'm aware we've got no intention of wanting to leave the EEA so we'd still be subjected to the majority of legislation and policy all EU nations have, all that would be different is we wouldn't have a say on the legislation. 

[bovril]

we won't leave. its scaremongering. 

 

Most of the highest-selling newspapers in the UK are anti-EU.