Referees

[lifted*fox]

I got a 48hr ban for photoshopping a jizzing cock onto Pawson's head and posting it across multiple threads.

 

Was it worth it?

 

Absolutely.  

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Let them comment and answer back to the likes of Wenger who just cannot take the fact his team are bottle jobs again (still looking for the 2 "offside" goals Man City scored..)

 

And then there is Mark Hughes who just summed up the totally pointless act of asking a manager about any decision because they only see it one way generally.

 

Can tell you now if that had been a Stoke player sent off like Vardy was he'd been on the pitch doing all sorts/demanding action etc.

 

Anyway maybe it just shows there are a lack of top officials that none really seem to get dropped now.

 

 

Well this is the thing, perhaps Wenger is abit more 'watered' down than Mourinho, but if Mourinho had made the comments Wenger made after the game he'd be in trouble.

 

Wenger threw a waterbottle on the floor yesterday i'm led to believe (Not 100% sure), ok Mourinho kicked a waterbottle with quite abit of force but still the same anger shown, Mourinho got in trouble.

 

SSN have just said the understand Wenger will get no punishment for his action.

[norwichfox]

2 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

I got a 48hr ban for photoshopping a jizzing cock onto Pawson's head and posting it across multiple threads.

 

Was it worth it?

 

Absolutely.  

Perhaps you shouldn't have used a mod's cock.....

[Countryfox]

Simpson made himself big like someone said earlier and got caught out ...    all this ball to hand and unnatural position malarky are basically guidelines to help a ref ....    he then has to make a split second call.    Can all the players in a wall stand with their arms up then run around going "Ball to hand !!"   if it hits them ?? ...    and why do some players make a block in the box with their hands behind their backs ...   is that natural ??     ........   I think he got it right.   

[MPH]

38 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Simpson made himself big like someone said earlier and got caught out ...    all this ball to hand and unnatural position malarky are basically guidelines to help a ref ....    he then has to make a split second call.    Can all the players in a wall stand with their arms up then run around going "Ball to hand !!"   if it hits them ?? ...    and why do some players make a block in the box with their hands behind their backs ...   is that natural ??     ........   I think he got it right.   

Simpson had his back turned away from the ball and wasnt even looking when the shot was taken.. How there can be any intent interpreted into that i have no idea...

[Col city fan]

I used to be a ref when a cruciate knee injury forced me to hang up my boots.

I'd done it across local leagues in Leicestershire for about three years, and finally gave up when a pre season 'friendly' game in Eyres Monsell resulted in a few players just about chasing me back to the car.

Literally, it ain't worth it. Especially when trying to referee Sunday morning neanderthals.

 

So, I can have some sympathy for refs. It's a really really difficult job when you've got players, make shift linesman, managers and even kids all giving you shite if their team doesn't get the decision.

The game has got quicker too I think. And the modern day footballers go down like they've been shot. Just the merest little touch and I swear they are taught to fall over convincingly.

I think every team has their fair share of players who do this. Vardy, for instance, knows how to fall over, when given a little clip on the heels. 

What is the answer? I don't know really cos video tech comes with its own problems. When three pundits can sit in a room, slowly playing back through video evidence and STILL can't come to a consensus, what hope has a ref got to make a crucial decision in a split second? And if we ARE to rely on video tech, it could slow the game down too much and I doubt anyone really wants that.

 

Its a tough one. I don't envy them personally. But that don't mean I don't get as peed off with dodgy decisions as the next bloke.

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

Simpson had his back turned away from the ball and wasnt even looking when the shot was taken.. How there can be any intent interpreted into that i have no idea...

 

He doesn't have to look ...    He made himself big ..   Like a keeper does when he runs out to block.   I was there ...   right in front of him ...    I've seen that look many many times when playing football ...   He took a chance and it cost him and us.    No big deal ...   Part and parcel of the game.   

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

 

He doesn't have to look ...    He made himself big ..   Like a keeper does when he runs out to block.   I was there ...   right in front of him ...    I've seen that look many many times when playing football ...   He took a chance and it cost him and us.    No big deal ...   Part and parcel of the game.   

 

 

his hands and arms were not about making himself big... watch it again... they are about balance...

[ARTY_FOX]

5 hours ago, jammie82uk said:

Well at least he can keep a low profile in the next game as he only has Liverpool v Manchester City 

I'd be surprised if he kept that game to be honest. There HAS to be some sort of accountability or the officials will never get any respect 

[Alex_LCFC]

4 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I used to be a ref when a cruciate knee injury forced me to hang up my boots.

I'd done it across local leagues in Leicestershire for about three years, and finally gave up when a pre season 'friendly' game in Eyres Monsell resulted in a few players just about chasing me back to the car.

Literally, it ain't worth it. Especially when trying to referee Sunday morning neanderthals.

 

So, I can have some sympathy for refs. It's a really really difficult job when you've got players, make shift linesman, managers and even kids all giving you shite if their team doesn't get the decision.

The game has got quicker too I think. And the modern day footballers go down like they've been shot. Just the merest little touch and I swear they are taught to fall over convincingly.

I think every team has their fair share of players who do this. Vardy, for instance, knows how to fall over, when given a little clip on the heels. 

What is the answer? I don't know really cos video tech comes with its own problems. When three pundits can sit in a room, slowly playing back through video evidence and STILL can't come to a consensus, what hope has a ref got to make a crucial decision in a split second? And if we ARE to rely on video tech, it could slow the game down too much and I doubt anyone really wants that.

 

Its a tough one. I don't envy them personally. But that don't mean I don't get as peed off with dodgy decisions as the next bloke.

Never get that in the church league 

[cambridgefox]

6 hours ago, norwichfox said:

Perhaps you shouldn't have used a mod's cock.....

Where is AOWW these days?

[Countryfox]

4 hours ago, MPH said:

 

 

his hands and arms were not about making himself big... watch it again... they are about balance...

Watched it again and still see the same thing ...   it looks almost balletic and reminds me of a certain Argentinian ...      nope, its Simpsons hand of God for me.

 

Edit :  Read Gerbolds post in the 'Was it really deliberate handball ?' thread ..    he summed it up perfectly. 

[MarshallForEngland]

I think basic training in how to interact with people would make a big difference. I don't mean this facetiously, I actually think the sorts of skills that work in other high-conflict environments like business, security, certain customer service roles etc are very relevant to football. There are good and bad ways to resolve conflicts and manage people. Sometimes referees behave in ways which are guaranteed to make a situation worse. If you make people feel angry, embarrassed or simply ignored, you're probably going to escalate the situation. For example, don't smile smugly when you book somebody, don't close your eyes and shoo somebody away with your hands when they ask you a question (yes, even and especially if they are already angry), and try to identify which people need a direct instruction with little or no explanation and which ones need to appreciate the logic of your actions before they can accept it.

 

Too many referees come across as fundamentally unlikeable and unrelatable. As a result, mistakes tend not to be seen as as honest, sincere responses to a situation, but rather as wild stabs in the dark done without any care about whether or not the correct decision has been made. The officials too often come across as arrogant and cavalier. I know it's not a personality contest but I honestly think this is as important as familiarity with the rules, knowledge of the game, fitness etc. 

[filbertway]

 Just saw the handball for the first time. He's made himself big and hoped he doesn't get called on it if it hits him.

 

Nobody slides to make a block with their arms straight up in the air, if you're defending that then you're either massively biased or lacking understanding.

[MarshallForEngland]

Just now, filbertway said:

 Just saw the handball for the first time. He's made himself big and hoped he doesn't get called on it if it hits him.

 

Nobody slides to make a block with their arms straight up in the air, if you're defending that then you're either massively biased or lacking understanding.

Do a google image search for "slide tackle" and look at the arm position of 90% of the people in the results. It's the natural, instinctive movement when you slide. Balance and protection. 

[leicesterlad1989]

9 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 Just saw the handball for the first time. He's made himself big and hoped he doesn't get called on it if it hits him.

 

Nobody slides to make a block with their arms straight up in the air, if you're defending that then you're either massively biased or lacking understanding.

 

Yes they do. All the time. How many slide with their arms by their side? He isn't a 4 year old doing a pencil jump in a swimming pool.

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

Do a google image search for "slide tackle" and look at the arm position of 90% of the people in the results. It's the natural, instinctive movement when you slide. Balance and protection. 

Just been hunting for a second angle as the first one looked blatent (appeared like he had both hands above his head at contact haha) and it doesn't look quite as bad when slowed down from a reverse angle.

 

After looking about another 10 times I'm still edging towards penalty. Interesting to see what Pawson's view was. I think I could understand the ref going either way with that one to be fair.

 

I hold my hands up though and admit it's nowhere near as clear cut as I thought from the first angle. Who'd be a ref?!

[leicesterlad1989]

Personally I don't wish for video technology for helping make decisions. I just want referees to be consistent. If a two footed challenge is a red card then all two footed tackles should be a red card. If diving and simulation is a yellow card offence, then all should be yellow cards.

Two occasions this calendar year now I feel we have been at the end of strange decisions. The West Ham home game where the referee finally decided to clamp down on grappling in the penalty area (something teams did / do all the time) and the Vardy one at the weekend. The fact Vardy was sent off and Rojo wasn't is what leaves a sour taste. CONSISTENCY?! 

 

If an official gets a decision wrong, why can't they come out in the media and admit it? Say what they thought had happened? Players and staff have to answer questions by the media so why can't referees?

 

The day we start using video technology is the day that football has officially become Americanised completely.

[filbertway]

All for video technology being used to help out refs. Should definitely be used for contentious corner/goal kick/throw in decisions. It takes about 5 seconds to get a replay up, the ref can know the correct decision in about 15 seconds. 

 

I like the idea of a challenge system being available, maybe only 1 challenge per team, per match though. The way players waste time and walk around, it wouldn't even affect the flow of the game. You could make about 10 decisions in the time it takes Ben Foster to take a goal kick.

[Guest]

I think some of the problem is, you get a ref who makes a bad decision and then realises it's a bad decision then tries to make up for it.

 

What should happen is refs make a decision, linesmen have more power to flag the refs down and debate that decision and that's final for the game - at no point are players allowed to approach the ref (very much like rugby and NFL refs decision is final)

 

Then any issues that want to be raised should be raised after and a board of Ex-players and Ex-refs review the game and give retrospective action.

 

Retrospective action should be harsh, but fair. especially for diving and deceit resulting in a loss for the team (penalties or sending offs) if those are deemed to have happened a game ban should be imposed. 

 

Where at the minute a player can dive and get a penalty and score, post game there are no consequences for that therefore said player is going to do it every game and risk the yellow.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

On 18/12/2016 at 23:57, Captain... said:

Both of his big mistakes yesterday were completely understandable, if you don't see the foul by Johnson then it looks like Vardy launched two footed into a tackle, Simpson's arm was in an unnatural position so by the really shit wording of the law he has to give a penalty even though common sense says that clearly he wasn't trying to block the ball with his hand and you don't deserve a penalty because the ball hits someone's hand off a cross from outside the area.

 

Video refs and technology are not going to help when the wording of the laws are so ambiguous in some cases and yet have bizarre conditions in other. You cannot get any sort of consistency when laws state that it depends on the opinion of the ref. Video replays can't help with that because the instinctive opinion of the ref on the ground is going to be different to the cold analysis watching on TV.

Yes it's complete bollox the way games are being reffed.

 

Re: this arms 'unnatural position'. 

 

Thats not in the rule on handball - it's become the pundits favourite phrase which has caught on. 

 

The main crux of the rule is that it has to be seen to be deliberate.

 

That judgement centres around whether the ball hits the hand (not handball) or if the hand MOVES  TO the ball (which is handball).

 

When its kicked at a hand 4ft away where there is no time to move the hand away from trajectory of the ball therefore it cannot or SHOULD NOT be a handball.

 

I blame the media for muddying the waters of something that is a pretty simple concept. A concept that now seems to be beyond referee's ability to understand and implement.

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Yes it's complete bollox the way games are being reffed.

 

Re: this arms 'unnatural position'. 

 

Thats not in the rule on handball - it's become the pundits favourite phrase which has caught on. 

 

The main crux of the rule is that it has to be seen to be deliberate.

 

That judgement centres around whether the ball hits the hand (not handball) or if the hand MOVES  TO the ball (which is handball).

 

When its kicked at a hand 4ft away where there is no time to move the hand away from trajectory of the ball therefore it cannot or SHOULD NOT be a handball.

 

I blame the media for muddying the waters of something that is a pretty simple concept. A concept that now seems to be beyond referee's ability to understand and implement.

 

 

 

That's not true at all.

 

You've read a basic rule and interpretating it your own way.

 

As I said yesterday I spoke to a lad I know who I know is an active ref and has officiated at least as high as the national league and I asked him if the term "deliberate" was made any clearer to them and if the rules are fleshed out anymore for referees, and I will paste his response for you.

 

"Yes, we receive a lot more guidance on this rather than just the law. It does state 'deliberate' but we are always advised to think about whether their hand is in a 'natural position' and whether they may have had time to do anything about it (proximity). "

 

"Yeah, it's a pen but can see why people are questioning! "

 

 

[foxinsocks]

I sit in line with the front of the 18yd box at the cop end.  WE are seeing very poor lino performance...  esp on fouls and offsides.  I wonder if a video ref with sky like tech could help with offsides.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

 

 

The WRITTEN RULE is as I say, as I understand it. 

 

The so called 'guidance' is where the problems begin resulting in it becoming ambiguous to what was quite clear. 

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

 

 

The WRITTEN RULE is as I say, as I understand it. 

 

The so called 'guidance' is where the problems begin resulting in it becoming ambiguous to what was quite clear. 

 

The guidance is how to determine if it is deliberate though. Clear cut incidents like Suarez at the World Cup are rare, so there's almost always interpretation over whether the player meant it.