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Barky

All these strikes

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4 hours ago, Bayfox said:

to cause maximum impact, if the royal mail strike in feb who really gives a ****, do it when we are all trying to send cards and parcels people all of a sudden have an opinion.

Royal Mail aren't on strike, Post Office are. Two different companies.

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4 hours ago, Watson said:

Personally, I am far more likely to blame the company than the strikers. It's highly unusual for workers in this country to strike unless there is a serious problem imo. Thus - I'll be pissed off if i don't get a package I ordered using Royal Mail before Xmas - I'm pissed off with Royal Mail = less likely to use them in the future.

Again... it's the Post Office, not Royal Mail.

 

If I had a penny for everyone who asked me why I was working today, I'd be able to buy a quarter of a cup of coffee.

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Mmmm. I'm going to be unpopular here but I've got a real issue with the principle of striking. Can only put it down to my Tory upbringing and being one of Thatcher's generation of capitalist children :rolleyes:. My wife is a teacher but has never joined a union. She's crossed the picket line on her own many times and been subject to much abuse, but she knew what she signed up for when she took the job. I just find the whole thing so archaic these days and for me it's a sign that we haven't matured as a country and are are still behaving like it's the 70's. I fully understand why people feel the need and I'm sure it's a 'last resort', but if I had my way I'd write it into everyone's contract that striking is not an option. I've always operated and worked in the private sector though so don't really understand the world of the public sector - hence my ignorance. In the private sector if you don't like your working conditions, pay or benefits, you look for another job so I can't really relate. No doubt I'll get shot down but sorry, just how I feel...

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9 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Mmmm. I'm going to be unpopular here but I've got a real issue with the principle of striking. Can only put it down to my Tory upbringing and being one of Thatcher's generation of capitalist children :rolleyes:. My wife is a teacher but has never joined a union. She's crossed the picket line on her own many times and been subject to much abuse, but she knew what she signed up for when she took the job. I just find the whole thing so archaic these days and for me it's a sign that we haven't matured as a country and are are still behaving like it's the 70's. I fully understand why people feel the need and I'm sure it's a 'last resort', but if I had my way I'd write it into everyone's contract that striking is not an option. I've always operated and worked in the private sector though so don't really understand the world of the public sector - hence my ignorance. In the private sector if you don't like your working conditions, pay or benefits, you look for another job so I can't really relate. No doubt I'll get shot down but sorry, just how I feel...

Lot of respect for you for telling it as it is from your view, I'm completly the opposite of that - but I totally respect your honesty and openess about why you feel the way you do :) shows you've got a decent intelligence behind you mate.

 

 

I've got issues with a world fundimentally sculpted by little bits of paper with someones face on - so i'm always going to disagree, but it was nice to read a well thought out response for the opposite view to mine.

 

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11 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Mmmm. I'm going to be unpopular here but I've got a real issue with the principle of striking. Can only put it down to my Tory upbringing and being one of Thatcher's generation of capitalist children :rolleyes:. My wife is a teacher but has never joined a union. She's crossed the picket line on her own many times and been subject to much abuse, but she knew what she signed up for when she took the job. I just find the whole thing so archaic these days and for me it's a sign that we haven't matured as a country and are are still behaving like it's the 70's. I fully understand why people feel the need and I'm sure it's a 'last resort', but if I had my way I'd write it into everyone's contract that striking is not an option. I've always operated and worked in the private sector though so don't really understand the world of the public sector - hence my ignorance. In the private sector if you don't like your working conditions, pay or benefits, you look for another job so I can't really relate. No doubt I'll get shot down but sorry, just how I feel...

Sometimes what you signed up for is arbitrarily taken away with no equivalent recompense and it's not that simple for everyone to just find another job.

 

I've had holidays reduced, hours lengthened, job completely changed with just a note on the notice board or a short letter with no explanations given.

 

I've been a union rep and a senior manager and seen both sides of the coin but i never been on strike but it doesn't mean my commitment to the job in hand wasn't sorely tested.

 

Some companies are just not very nice to their employees and they know that they can't all just up and leave so they screw every last ounce out them.

 

I'm not trying to justify any of the current ones as I don't know the details but I've seen many justified strikes in my time.

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24 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Mmmm. I'm going to be unpopular here but I've got a real issue with the principle of striking. Can only put it down to my Tory upbringing and being one of Thatcher's generation of capitalist children :rolleyes:. My wife is a teacher but has never joined a union. She's crossed the picket line on her own many times and been subject to much abuse, but she knew what she signed up for when she took the job. I just find the whole thing so archaic these days and for me it's a sign that we haven't matured as a country and are are still behaving like it's the 70's. I fully understand why people feel the need and I'm sure it's a 'last resort', but if I had my way I'd write it into everyone's contract that striking is not an option. I've always operated and worked in the private sector though so don't really understand the world of the public sector - hence my ignorance. In the private sector if you don't like your working conditions, pay or benefits, you look for another job so I can't really relate. No doubt I'll get shot down but sorry, just how I feel...

As the poster above stated, you put across your point with care and attention so you really shouldn't get shot down for that.

 

That being said, strikes, as well as other forms of industrial action, originated as a bulwark against abusive employers and helped shift the balance of power in the workplace more towards even. Nowadays the working environment may have changed but human nature is still human nature and there will always be self interested employers looking for ways to guarantee maximum income for themselves by screwing those who work for them (that's not to say employees try it on with the boss quite often too). Without such recourse of industrial action this path would be available to all employers, rendering the idea of moving job moot. As it was a while back before the idea of unionization existed. Having worked in a job in the Far East for the last few years with next to no worker protections, I have seen the effect of unscrupulous bosses first hand.

 

Not every strike is justified, but even now having the option available is key IMO.

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wait till it affects you personally

 

My pension was going to be reduced by 60%; colleagues within the union threatened industrial action and after negotiation its changed to 35%; I'm not in the union but thank god for them....this world is not about making sure senior management maintain their five figure bonuses for 'controlling' c osst (at least where I work)

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5 minutes ago, davieG said:

Sometimes what you signed up for is arbitrarily taken away with no equivalent recompense and it's not that simple for everyone to just find another job.

 

I've had holidays reduced, hours lengthened, job completely changed with just a note on the notice board or a short letter with no explanations given.

 

I've been a union rep and a senior manager and seen both sides of the coin but i never been on strike but it doesn't mean my commitment to the job in hand wasn't sorely tested.

 

Some companies are just not very nice to their employees and they know that they can't all just up and leave so they screw every last ounce out them.

 

I'm not trying to justify any of the current ones as I don't know the details but I've seen many justified strikes in my time.

Maybe I've just been 'lucky' over the years to work for companies that wouldn't do the above. Any decent company worth their salt would surely spend time consulting with employees and finding a compromise before making changes? 

 

If senior management make the changes above without consultation, explanation or at short notice, then they don't deserve to be in a senior position IMO. 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Maybe I've just been 'lucky' over the years to work for companies that wouldn't do the above. Any decent company worth their salt would surely spend time consulting with employees and finding a compromise before making changes? 

 

If senior management make the changes above without consultation, explanation or at short notice, then they don't deserve to be in a senior position IMO. 

 

 

 

 

I believe legally to alter your contract they just need to give 3 months notice I don't think they're obliged to justify any change to your terms & conditions

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9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

As the poster above stated, you put across your point with care and attention so you really shouldn't get shot down for that.

 

That being said, strikes, as well as other forms of industrial action, originated as a bulwark against abusive employers and helped shift the balance of power in the workplace more towards even. Nowadays the working environment may have changed but human nature is still human nature and there will always be self interested employers looking for ways to guarantee maximum income for themselves by screwing those who work for them (that's not to say employees try it on with the boss quite often too). Without such recourse of industrial action this path would be available to all employers, rendering the idea of moving job moot. As it was a while back before the idea of unionization existed. Having worked in a job in the Far East for the last few years with next to no worker protections, I have seen the effect of unscrupulous bosses first hand.

 

Not every strike is justified, but even now having the option available is key IMO.

Thanks for not shooting me down :thumbup:

 

As I said in reply to Davie G's post, if employers only have their self interests at heart and are intent on screwing those who work for them, then they shouldn't be in that position of authority and power. 

 

I'm a leadership coach and see examples every day of senior managers who bully, intimidate and put pressure on workers which filters through organisations like a cancer. And of course it's all driven by greed, profit and shareholder expectation.

 

Then again, I've also seen examples of businesses that genuinely put their people first that also make huge profits, whilst also retaining staff and creating a great culture to work in where people feel valued. 

 

Therefore maybe my issue is not with 'striking' at all, but with the actions and behaviors of those in senior positions. Which is kinda why I do the work I do I suppose...

 

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4 minutes ago, davieG said:

I believe legally to alter your contract they just need to give 3 months notice I don't think they're obliged to justify any change to your terms & conditions

Maybe they're not legally obliged to justify changes to t's & c's, but surely it's common sense to consult and negotiate first before just telling people they're hours are increasing or holidays are reducing. That's madness, and of course I can see why people would be pissed off.

 

Again, this is 'old school' management practice to me. Why would you want an angry, unmotivated workforce on your hands who therefore won't be productive and ultimately drive profit growth for you? I don't get it...

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izzy, not trying to have a go at you personally but as I say wait till it happens to you personally

 

colleagues were having their pensions reduced from £10K to £5 K re annum...only the union improved that....and only the threat of industrial action would have any effect

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23 minutes ago, January47 said:

wait till it affects you personally

 

My pension was going to be reduced by 60%; colleagues within the union threatened industrial action and after negotiation its changed to 35%; I'm not in the union but thank god for them....this world is not about making sure senior management maintain their five figure bonuses for 'controlling' cost (at least where I work)

 

14 minutes ago, January47 said:

ha , ha  seriously you must be  joking surely

 

as I said, wait till it affects you personally

I guess you're talking to me?

 

Well first of all it won't affect me personally because I work for myself, but I do empathise with your points.

 

I agree it's not all about fat cat bonuses, but this whole 'them and us' thing really grinds my gears. Grown up, adult, modern businesses recognise this, and do their best to remove hierarchy and give all employees a voice and say in the business. The fact organisations even need a union is almost an admittance that they haven't got the confidence, skills or competency to deal with their people properly IMO

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Maybe they're not legally obliged to justify changes to t's & c's, but surely it's common sense to consult and negotiate first before just telling people they're hours are increasing or holidays are reducing. That's madness, and of course I can see why people would be pissed off.

 

Again, this is 'old school' management practice to me. Why would you want an angry, unmotivated workforce on your hands who therefore won't be productive and ultimately drive profit growth for you? I don't get it...

I think Sports Direct and JD Sports prove that isn't the case.

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Just now, Izzy Muzzett said:

I agree it's not all about fat cat bonuses, but this whole 'them and us' thing really grinds my gears. Grown up, adult, modern businesses recognise this, and do their best to remove hierarchy and give all employees a voice and say in the business.

That's the ideal really, it makes the people working there feel part of the success of the business. I have to say in my experience it's much harder to achieve in larger organisations and as someone who works for a large organisation you can see the need for union representation

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appreciate the rep @Izzy Muzzett - i generally find even within people of totally opposite views there are always ideals stored between the two parties that remain, it's just people's life experiences adjust their overall position - and why wouldn't it? - like you said. You are completly right in what you say about companies asking their employees and finding compromise before changes - and these companies are excellent examples of where we'd all like the world to be heading - like the others have said though it's not always that way sadly, it almost makes you want to question in a more David Icke sort of way the sort of people who run the big companies who actually don't do that, don't listen and so forth.

 

In my life experience I personally was marked by Iceland management while i worked there, "a disruptive influence" (towards only the end may i add - otherwise im sure i wouldnt have been promoted numerous times up to an assistant manager and working in loss prevention) I was given a platform to explain myself to a more senior manager - i had mathematical equations to counter theirs - as they were incorrect about the amount of units could be replenished and didn't take into account other buisness factors - such as checkout operation, organising a productive home delivery service, dealing with customer querys (we got to a point where even I couldnt respond with complaints at a store level - where i used to respond in a similar, hopefully diplomatic manner as this) - when i would explain why, i was informed i was, "putting up barriers" - when actually the company really overnight expected to be able to make the same sort of money while halving the workforce for profit. I had to fire someone who was a single mother and needed her 16.5 hours a week because our sales fell so much, she was reliable, popular with staff and customers - that hurt me personally because I felt as if i'd been allowed to do things my way I would have continued that growth from 75k > 100k and beyond, our town was there for the taking then with so many poorly run supermarkets around us.

 

In hindsight - i should have told all my staff to drop tools, lock the doors to the store and called my head office to tell them that what they were doing to us was destroying their own buisness, instead I walked away (and this is why i can symphase with the strikers somewhat)

 

Perhaps I sound like a know-it-all, and i don't mean to - but its funny how when I had more stretch in the buisness to manage i was able with the management team to actually manage the store and deliver 75 more home deliveries a week on average than ever before - and then a 25k sales increase...

 

I'll never forget the day i had the #1 set of "dump bins" in the company out of over 1200 stores (ironically the Leicester Iceland store is one of the highest performing in the whole company and i finally topped their work - never worked there) and my regional manager came in and berated me for not putting Chocolate Digestives in a bin (despite my adjustments making them as said before the best in the company) and i had done this for two reasons - 1. because they melted in that spot because of the freezer extract - 2. because our fairy washing up liquid wasn't getting the attention it deserved for the price and product placement in the store - and was something for the price people would just grab and put in the basket. I apologised to him for not wanting to throw out 30+ units a day that no-one would buy because they had melted - and for wanting to improve sales from that spot. That's when I realised I had to leave.

 

I'm talking about what I have experienced personally - and honestly I do wish I had gone further, created a stink and locked the doors to the builiding - because we'd have 20 more people employed in my town who are now unemployed or earning less - and all because a group of shareholders just wouldn't listen (to not only me but other management in other stores who left at a similar time) and wanted to view a short-term gain as a victory rather than the long-term security and growth of the buisness.

 

Oh, and did I mention that was the year Iceland won the Best Company in the UK to work for? If they were the best back then - then there is no wonder people are striking...

 

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34 minutes ago, davieG said:

I think Sports Direct and JD Sports prove that isn't the case.

And I guess that's why the Commons Select Committee are all over Mike Ashley like a rash. 

 

He's made his billions but he's eventually been found out. Again, people have choice and free will and they're not forced to work there. 

 

I'm not sure of their latest profit numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if they significantly go down based on bad publicity and treating workers unfairly. Well lets hope so anyway..

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you know what, a while ago I might have seen your point of view.

 

I'm not going to say who I work for but they would be considered in the top rank of employers.

 

It totally is about senior management ensuring they get their bonuses which is by  reducing costs and boosting short term profits which is to a large extent achieved by reducing wages/pensions.....that is how they are bonused.

 

Human nature doesn't change....unfortunately its about self interest....the highly paid senior management against the 'normal' workers

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1 minute ago, January47 said:

you know what, a while ago I might have seen your point of view.

 

I'm not going to say who I work for but they would be considered in the top rank of employers.

 

It totally is about senior management ensuring they get their bonuses which is by  reducing costs and boosting short term profits which is to a large extent achieved by reducing wages/pensions.....that is how they are bonused.

 

Human nature doesn't change....unfortunately its about self interest....the highly paid senior management against the 'normal' workers

 

This, cheers for confirming January, exactly the nail on the head, self-interest

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8 minutes ago, TAFKA Castroneves said:

appreciate the rep @Izzy Muzzett - i generally find even within people of totally opposite views there are always ideals stored between the two parties that remain, it's just people's life experiences adjust their overall position - and why wouldn't it? - like you said. You are completly right in what you say about companies asking their employees and finding compromise before changes - and these companies are excellent examples of where we'd all like the world to be heading - like the others have said though it's not always that way sadly, it almost makes you want to question in a more David Icke sort of way the sort of people who run the big companies who actually don't do that, don't listen and so forth.

 

In my life experience I personally was marked by Iceland management while i worked there, "a disruptive influence" (towards only the end may i add - otherwise im sure i wouldnt have been promoted numerous times up to an assistant manager and working in loss prevention) I was given a platform to explain myself to a more senior manager - i had mathematical equations to counter theirs - as they were incorrect about the amount of units could be replenished and didn't take into account other buisness factors - such as checkout operation, organising a productive home delivery service, dealing with customer querys (we got to a point where even I couldnt respond with complaints at a store level - where i used to respond in a similar, hopefully diplomatic manner as this) - when i would explain why, i was informed i was, "putting up barriers" - when actually the company really overnight expected to be able to make the same sort of money while halving the workforce for profit. I had to fire someone who was a single mother and needed her 16.5 hours a week because our sales fell so much, she was reliable, popular with staff and customers - that hurt me personally because I felt as if i'd been allowed to do things my way I would have continued that growth from 75k > 100k and beyond, our town was there for the taking then with so many poorly run supermarkets around us.

 

In hindsight - i should have told all my staff to drop tools, lock the doors to the store and called my head office to tell them that what they were doing to us was destroying their own buisness, instead I walked away (and this is why i can symphase with the strikers somewhat)

 

Perhaps I sound like a know-it-all, and i don't mean to - but its funny how when I had more stretch in the buisness to manage i was able with the management team to actually manage the store and deliver 75 more home deliveries a week on average than ever before - and then a 25k sales increase...

 

I'll never forget the day i had the #1 set of "dump bins" in the company out of over 1200 stores (ironically the Leicester Iceland store is one of the highest performing in the whole company and i finally topped their work - never worked there) and my regional manager came in and berated me for not putting Chocolate Digestives in a bin (despite my adjustments making them as said before the best in the company) and i had done this for two reasons - 1. because they melted in that spot because of the freezer extract - 2. because our fairy washing up liquid wasn't getting the attention it deserved for the price and product placement in the store - and was something for the price people would just grab and put in the basket. I apologised to him for not wanting to throw out 30+ units a day that no-one would buy because they had melted - and for wanting to improve sales from that spot. That's when I realised I had to leave.

 

I'm talking about what I have experienced personally - and honestly I do wish I had gone further, created a stink and locked the doors to the builiding - because we'd have 20 more people employed in my town who are now unemployed or earning less - and all because a group of shareholders just wouldn't listen (to not only me but other management in other stores who left at a similar time) and wanted to view a short-term gain as a victory rather than the long-term security and growth of the buisness.

 

Oh, and did I mention that was the year Iceland won the Best Company in the UK to work for? If they were the best back then - then there is no wonder people are striking...

 

You make many good points my friend, and maybe we have more in common than you think!

 

I spent nearly 20 years in Electrical Retail and started as a 16 year old YTS trainee on £29 a week. I managed to work my way up through the organisation and my last role was Regional Director responsible for 20 stores, 600 staff and £200m sales budget. 

 

Over the years I worked for some great bosses and also some utter cvnts. I guess I tried to take the best of what I learnt from the good ones to help form my own management style. I can totally relate to your stories and it's interesting that when I did eventually decide to leave, it was because a new MD came in who undid all the good work of his predecessor. I couldn't work for a bully so I took the plunge and left corporate PLC to set up on my own.

 

I think making unpopular decisions on behalf of shareholders/senior management comes with the territory - even when we don't agree with them. Everyone likes the 'nice' bits of management, but doesn't like conflict or delivering bad news. That's where strong interpersonal skills come in and the ability to communicate a negative message but still keep the workforce on side. Not easy, but this is partly what separates the great managers from the shite ones.

 

My purpose now is to coach and help senior managers to become more effective leaders of people. @January47 is right that there are those who put self interest first, but generally they get weeded out over time when it's clear they don't fit with the company values or culture. Poor recruitment of senior positions also has a lot to answer for..

 

As a wise man once said: "poor organisations are like rotten fish - they stink from the head down". 

 

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4 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

You make many good points my friend, and maybe we have more in common than you think!

 

I spent nearly 20 years in Electrical Retail and started as a 16 year old YTS trainee on £29 a week. I managed to work my way up through the organisation and my last role was Regional Director responsible for 20 stores, 600 staff and £200m sales budget. 

 

Over the years I worked for some great bosses and also some utter cvnts. I guess I tried to take the best of what I learnt from the good ones to help form my own management style. I can totally relate to your stories and it's interesting that when I did eventually decide to leave, it was because a new MD came in who undid all the good work of his predecessor. I couldn't work for a bully so I took the plunge and left corporate PLC to set up on my own.

 

I think making unpopular decisions on behalf of shareholders/senior management comes with the territory - even when we don't agree with them. Everyone likes the 'nice' bits of management, but doesn't like conflict or delivering bad news. That's where strong interpersonal skills come in and the ability to communicate a negative message but still keep the workforce on side. Not easy, but this is partly what separates the great managers from the shite ones.

 

My purpose now is to coach and help senior managers to become more effective leaders of people. @January47 is right that there are those who put self interest first, but generally they get weeded out over time when it's clear they don't fit with the company values or culture. Poor recruitment of senior positions also has a lot to answer for..

 

As a wise man once said: "poor organisations are like rotten fish - they stink from the head down". 

 

You got your head screwed on buddy, no wonder you've been successful as you've potentially managed to manage people to avoid extreme action (depending of course on the gravity of the buisness changes - relating back to the original posting point we can probably agree the bosses of these striking companies aren't as good hehe) I can fully admit in response to my experiences with my afformentioned company I never knew what was going on at head office, only what my area manager told me - and of course there are so many more factors that could have come from the shareholders that i was totally unaware of. I feel for me i was surrounded in this oxymoronic existance of my company telling me we were always going to be the best for customer service (we were the best company to work for in the UK - even over Goldman-Sachs! with their bonuses at the time) - and then no matter what caused the cuts - failing to nuture their differenciator (hope i spelt that correct from memory haha) and cutting that first.

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7 minutes ago, TAFKA Castroneves said:

You got your head screwed on buddy, no wonder you've been successful as you've potentially managed to manage people to avoid extreme action (depending of course on the gravity of the buisness changes - relating back to the original posting point we can probably agree the bosses of these striking companies aren't as good hehe) I can fully admit in response to my experiences with my afformentioned company I never knew what was going on at head office, only what my area manager told me - and of course there are so many more factors that could have come from the shareholders that i was totally unaware of. I feel for me i was surrounded in this oxymoronic existance of my company telling me we were always going to be the best for customer service (we were the best company to work for in the UK - even over Goldman-Sachs! with their bonuses at the time) - and then no matter what caused the cuts - failing to nuture their differenciator (hope i spelt that correct from memory haha) and cutting that first.

Yes, there are many examples of companies who say all the right things but then behave in a totally contradictory way. Employees lose faith and end of not trusting their leaders - and it's all down hill from there. That's why it's so important leaders 'role model' what they expect in their people. Far too many "do as I say, not as I do" managers out there in my experience. 

In the past I've had to discipline, demote and fire many people, as well as make significant structure changes to control costs. I always found that 'honesty is the best policy' and although people don't like it, they more often than not respect it if they clearly understand the 'why'. 

Anyway, it's been nice chatting mate. I best butt out now as I'm guilty of derailing the thread lol

Back to striking!!!

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14 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Yes, there are many examples of companies who say all the right things but then behave in a totally contradictory way. Employees lose faith and end of not trusting their leaders - and it's all down hill from there. That's why it's so important leaders 'role model' what they expect in their people. Far too many "do as I say, not as I do" managers out there in my experience. 

In the past I've had to discipline, demote and fire many people, as well as make significant structure changes to control costs. I always found that 'honesty is the best policy' and although people don't like it, they more often than not respect it if they clearly understand the 'why'. 

Anyway, it's been nice chatting mate. I best butt out now as I'm guilty of derailing the thread lol

Back to striking!!!

 

Ditto mate lol lovely chatting to you, ironically it was our beloved Citeh winning the Premier League that probably swung me more towards a perspective of an "idealist" world recently :P anything is possible now eh?

 

To just tie things up - completly agree with your first point about "role models" - i had two fantastic Area Managers who were very grounded and really helped me grow in the company to where I got, they were excellent examples - (and of course ironically) they had all left by the time i left.

 

People are a massive factor and yes I can understand the need to demote, discipline and fire as you said - if there IS a reason that makes sense - a "why" then yes, they will respect you for that. The line is no doubt difficult to see and there are some individuals who would potentially warp and adjust that to their advantage - let's hope we don't turn our backs on those who are striking who just want to improve things for the right reasons (beyond that of self gain) - then its no doubt right for me to make a stand.

 

 

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