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Jattdogg

Terror Attack at Canadian Mosque

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1 minute ago, MattP said:

Your actual post from the San Bernandino thread I posted......

 

 

 

I can't remember to be honest, I just quickly googled terrorist attack and that one came up. Maybe the fact is was a Monday morning was part of it as well.

 

Monday mornings are proper shit to be fair.....I am happy it is over. 

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4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Your actual post from the San Bernandino thread I posted......

 

 

 

Yup, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else - I made an assumption. Turns out it was a Muslim guy who couldn't deal with being in the closet, right? Which is why I'm not jumping to conclusions on this one, yet.

 

I do think Pabs' point is salient though - whenever there's a Muslim attack on a prominent place in the US or Europe there tends to be a massive outcry on here - though not always, but certainly more so than when either Muslims are the victims or when the perp is known to be white.

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****s sake.

 

 

2 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Yeah but if it was ISIS shooting up church that's what we'd be getting. Utter outrage, that's the point.

 

Surely an outrageous act of terrorism is an outrageous act of terrorism though? As I say the difference in reaction is absloutley huge when compared to an ISIS attack. 

Desensitisation is definitely rife with these things nowadays but I mostly put it down to a distinct lack of bigots using the event as an excuse to make comments brandishing all people of a specific religion inherently culpable which along with the backlash to said comments often comprises a significant portion of the debate in these threads.

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49 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Yup, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else - I made an assumption. Turns out it was a Muslim guy who couldn't deal with being in the closet, right? Which is why I'm not jumping to conclusions on this one, yet.

 

I do think Pabs' point is salient though - whenever there's a Muslim attack on a prominent place in the US or Europe there tends to be a massive outcry on here - though not always, but certainly more so than when either Muslims are the victims or when the perp is known to be white.

No, that was the Orlando shooting. This was the attack on a disabled people's home a few months before, a married US/Pakistani couple - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack/

 

There have been so many of these now they are almost morphing into one.

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7 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Yeah but if it was ISIS shooting up church that's what we'd be getting. Utter outrage, that's the point.

 

Surely an outrageous act of terrorism is an outrageous act of terrorism though? As I say the difference in reaction is absloutley huge when compared to an ISIS attack. 

Muslim fanatics have shot up and burned lots of Christian churches over the years, in Africa and elsewhere. I may be wrong but can't remember much condemnation ever being expressed in the UK or even hearing reference from the mainstream media.

 

I'm actually quite impressed by the attitude of forgiveness. But it's not the greatest commentary on mankind and the Canadian outrage is no more defensible than any other. 

 

People don't realise how many shameful attrocities are sheltered from the public by newpapers and television, day in and day out. Yet the world gets completely wound up when Trump tries to get protective claiming extreme security isn't necessary.  

 

Yet someone posted today that we're getting conditioned to such things. What sort of commentary is that on supposedly safe societies?   

   

 

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/April/Muslims-Burn-69-Churches-Christians-Forgive

 

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/05/08/muslim-mobs-burn-egyptian-churches-12-killed/

 

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/no-christmas-celebration-in-sudan-muslims-burn-and-demolish-churches

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, bovril said:

Economic difficulties more than anything.

Tribalism is the problem. Modern Europeans divide themselves along national, language, political, economic lines just as much if not more than religion.

More than religion.

 

The last wars in Europe saw German Catholics killing English Catholics and vice versa. Same went for Protestants. No one ever stopped to check the beliefs of their foe before shooting them.

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4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

Yup, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else - I made an assumption. Turns out it was a Muslim guy who couldn't deal with being in the closet, right? Which is why I'm not jumping to conclusions on this one, yet.

 

I do think Pabs' point is salient though - whenever there's a Muslim attack on a prominent place in the US or Europe there tends to be a massive outcry on here - though not always, but certainly more so than when either Muslims are the victims or when the perp is known to be white.

 

 

You'd need to come up with some evidence on your last point. i remember the publicity over some murders over here. Pages and pages of it and never ending until cases came to trial and sentences pronounced. We Brits don't much condone murders, abuse or any kind of attrocities by anyone. 

 

As for my personal reaction to this attack in the mosque, I think it appalling and would have thought so whoever was responsible.

 

I can't help wondering if some of these lunatics actually feed on the publicity their pathetic lives attract and, if it  were proven, whether our moral guardians in the media would stop being accessories by giving them such notoriety-based glorification.

 

Cos evil feeds on publicity and maybe an end to that publicity would be the best antidote.

 

A blow to evil and hypocrisy at the same time?

 

Some hope! Sales and viewing figures would win every time. Where would we be without such dramatic headlines! :rolleyes: 

 

    

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10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Not sure how much mileage there is on this one, but fairly solid report has one Moroccan Muslim in custody as a witness (originally suspected to be part of the shooting but no longer) and the gunman himself is French-Canadian.

Did he surrender himself :ph34r:

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28 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Not sure how much mileage there is on this one, but fairly solid report has one Moroccan Muslim in custody as a witness (originally suspected to be part of the shooting but no longer) and the gunman himself is French-Canadian.

Latest reports have the main culprit/the shooter down as a frustrated and anti-social white male:

Quote

The man who was held, Alexandre Bissonnette, had a history of provocative views and antisocial behavior, according to a report in the Quebec newspaper La Presse. The newspaper quoted François Deschamps, an official with a refugee advocacy organization, as saying that Mr. Bissonette had make harassing comments against members of an online chat room.

The organization, Bienvenue aux Refugiés, said in a Facebook post that Mr. Bissonnette had made remarks critical of feminists and foreigners, and that he had expressed sympathies online with the National Front, the far-right political party in France.

The article quoted classmates of Mr. Bissonette as saying that he had been bullied and taunted at school, and was known for making insulting and offensive remarks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/world/canada/quebec-mosque-shooting.html

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/attentat-a-quebec/201701/30/01-5064465-le-suspect-connu-pour-ses-critiques-sur-facebook.php

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1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

That tallies with what I read too.

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To me he is a terrorist....loner or not its a terror hate crime. 

 

Im shocked that even over here it doesnt seem to be all over the news all day like anything trump says.

 

Heck my local  radio news started their newscast talking about a daylight shooting in Toronto on the streets over this.

 

 

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It's pretty ironic after events of the last week that the first terrorist attack on North American soil since Trump became president is a white North American murdering muslims. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the left wing media start saying Trump's ridiculous actions have helped to legitimise attacks on muslims, and there may well be something in that.

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2 hours ago, Barky said:

It's pretty ironic after events of the last week that the first terrorist attack on North American soil since Trump became president is a white North American murdering muslims. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the left wing media start saying Trump's ridiculous actions have helped to legitimise attacks on muslims, and there may well be something in that.

 

Apparently some Canadian news stations were blaming it on Trump immediately after the attack

 

Looks like that Mosque had been targeted before, with a pigs head being left on the doorstep during Ramadan. Whether it was the same guy or not isn't known. Sad state of aaffairs when people of any faith can't even go to prayer safely these days. Thoughts with the families :( 

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Daily Mail first out of the blocks to claim he "liked Trump". With literally zero evidence then in the article. 

 

Whatever he is he's a bastard, I still wouldn't vote for the death penalty but the older I get I start to wonder what the hell is the point of keeping these mass murdering ideology based terrorists alive.

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20 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Of course an attack on British or European soil will be far more discussed than one in Africa, Asia or North America, I don't think we should read too much into it to try and suit our own prejudices.

 

 

Yet in the EU thread the other day you said: " I don't think anyone had said they want to be a poodle to America, we saw enough of that to last us a lifetime under the last Labour government, but if they are open to a trade deal and to work with us then of course we should, despite the distance we have far more in common with places like America, Australia and Canada than we do with Europe".

 

So we have far more in common with Canada than with Europe, yet we're much more inclined to discuss attacks in Europe than attacks in Canada?

 

I do think that the identity of the perpetrators and the victims affects the reaction of some people. No point engaging in an extended argument about that, though. Some people are massively more outraged by Islamist extremists murdering innocent civilians than by white extremists doing the same. As others have implied, people will never openly admit to such prejudice.

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13 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Not sure how much mileage there is on this one, but fairly solid report has one Moroccan Muslim in custody as a witness (originally suspected to be part of the shooting but no longer) and the gunman himself is French-Canadian.

 

The latter being another known wacko by the sound of it.       

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57 minutes ago, MattP said:

Daily Mail first out of the blocks to claim he "liked Trump". With literally zero evidence then in the article. 

 

Whatever he is he's a bastard, I still wouldn't vote for the death penalty but the older I get I start to wonder what the hell is the point of keeping these mass murdering ideology based terrorists alive.

As I've long favoured: Release them into the Antarctic with a few basics, make them stateless and let the  "Higher Power" decide the outcome. Saves wasting money on maintaining them, gets rid of the problem permanently and justifiably passes the buck rather than turning the law into a murderer. Needn't just apply to terrorists.    

 

  

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3 hours ago, Barky said:

It's pretty ironic after events of the last week that the first terrorist attack on North American soil since Trump became president is a white North American murdering muslims. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the left wing media start saying Trump's ridiculous actions have helped to legitimise attacks on muslims, and there may well be something in that.

 

There's no justification for murdering innocents, or blaming others for their action, unless the perpetrator's been forced to do something against their will.    

 

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1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Yet in the EU thread the other day you said: " I don't think anyone had said they want to be a poodle to America, we saw enough of that to last us a lifetime under the last Labour government, but if they are open to a trade deal and to work with us then of course we should, despite the distance we have far more in common with places like America, Australia and Canada than we do with Europe".

 

So we have far more in common with Canada than with Europe, yet we're much more inclined to discuss attacks in Europe than attacks in Canada?

Just because (in my opinion) we have far more culturally in common with a country doesn't mean that we will discuss news from those countries more than ones that are next to us.

 

We talk about what is presented to us in the new, politics is a prime example and we look at Europe far more than our cultural similars the US aside (and that's because it's the superpower), I can find pages on the French and German elections in this weeks papers near the front page, I can barely find something near the front on the Canadian, New Zealand or Australia elections even when they have had a change of government.

 

The Canadian attack isn't on the front page of the Times today (they do hav a picture of the attacker), the story is shoved onto page 31, the second story in the World section behind the Macron surge that threatens to beat Fillon into second, does that make the Times newspaper racist or not wanting to admit it's prejudice?

 

I don't think it does.

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I think it's natural to discuss and be affected by attacks in places that are closer and more familiar to us. More British people, I imagine, will have gone to Nice or Paris than Quebec. More Brits will identify with people on holiday or at a gig than those at prayer. It sounds harsh but it's human nature.

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