President Trump & the USA

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, Darkon84 said:

 

Weren't NASA and Wehrner von Braun working on rocketry and space exploration for years and years before that, getting gradually closer and closer, heading in that direction anyway, so it was the next logical step in the space race? I wouldn't say it was conceived by him or that it wouldn't have occurred without him. He does need credit for taking it to congress and convincing them, though I'd imagine a large part of that was down to perceiving the USSR as being further ahead than them.

Von Braun had ideas on the Moon even while he was in charge of working thousands of sla- sorry, indentured workers to death at Mittelwerk (though how much he was responsible for that and what he could have done to stop it is open to question).

 

When he was poached by the Americans post-WW2 he had to wait a while for the political landscape to favour spaceflight before he could put the plans he had into action. JFK was a large part of that, though as you said it was borne out of a fear of the USSR.

[Merging Cultures]

Imagine being afraid of Russia!! Embrace them... What could go wrong!!

It increasingly looks like Trump's campaign did coordinate with Russia. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

Imagine being afraid of Russia!! Embrace them... What could go wrong!!

It increasingly looks like Trump's campaign did coordinate with Russia. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Questions need to be asked regarding why this involvement wasn't known about or proven before - if it turns out to be true.

[Darkon84]

54 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Von Braun had ideas on the Moon even while he was in charge of working thousands of sla- sorry, indentured workers to death at Mittelwerk (though how much he was responsible for that and what he could have done to stop it is open to question).

 

When he was poached by the Americans post-WW2 he had to wait a while for the political landscape to favour spaceflight before he could put the plans he had into action. JFK was a large part of that, though as you said it was borne out of a fear of the USSR.

 

Yep, all true, and this whole thing isn't really relevant to the main topic, but I just took a little issue with the original post saying JFK conceived the idea to send a man to the moon in America, when it's not true. The Saturn rockets were already being created by the time JFK took office, and as said, going to the moon was the next natural step in the rocketry sciences. JFK played a big part in convincing congress it was necessary to do, that can't be argued, but to say he conceived it is just not true (in my eyes anyway). I think no matter who the president was at that time, due to the pressure and on-upmanship with the USSR, the space program would have continued in and a manned mission to the moon would have occurred.

 

Anyway, as I said, this is all off topic and irrelevant. It was just me taking slight issue with certain wording. Nothing to see here lol.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

 

Yep, all true, and this whole thing isn't really relevant to the main topic, but I just took a little issue with the original post saying JFK conceived the idea to send a man to the moon in America, when it's not true. The Saturn rockets were already being created by the time JFK took office, and as said, going to the moon was the next natural step in the rocketry sciences. JFK played a big part in convincing congress it was necessary to do, that can't be argued, but to say he conceived it is just not true (in my eyes anyway). I think no matter who the president was at that time, due to the pressure and on-upmanship with the USSR, the space program would have continued in and a manned mission to the moon would have occurred.

 

Anyway, as I said, this is all off topic and irrelevant. It was just me taking slight issue with certain wording. Nothing to see here lol.

That's fair.

 

As I said before, as far as I'm concerned space travel isn't a party political issue anyway - the really big stuff doesn't give two shits about which ideology holds power at any one time.

[Darkon84]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That's fair.

 

As I said before, as far as I'm concerned space travel isn't a party political issue anyway - the really big stuff doesn't give two shits about which ideology holds power at any one time.

 

Agree 100% with that. The really big stuff like that shouldn't be kicked around like a political football.

[GaelicFox]

Trump is a serous trouble maker 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375961

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

Trump is a serous trouble maker 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375961

 

Well, he had to throw AIPAC a bone, I guess.

[leicsmac]

Trumps proposed bill to replace the ACA crashes and burns. Oh dear.

[Carl the Llama]

28 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Trumps proposed bill to replace the ACA crashes and burns. Oh dear.

So sad.  Terrible.

[Buce]

31 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Trumps proposed bill to replace the ACA crashes and burns. Oh dear.

 

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

So sad.  Terrible.

 

But it did so largely because some Republicans thought it didn't go far enough.

 

A somewhat depressing thought.

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

But it did so largely because some Republicans thought it didn't go far enough.

 

A somewhat depressing thought.

 

Oh, of course.

 

It's just a little refreshing to see a bad bill get nixed by infighting on that side of the fence for once.

[SMX11]

10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Trumps proposed bill to replace the ACA crashes and burns. Oh dear.

The Freedom Caucus understood that the ACA wouldn't work. This just strengthens their hand as the death spiral continues.

[China Black]

It's astonishing that the USA, a long-time developed country, does not have free, universal healthcare. That is something the USA should have implemented many years ago.

 

Free healthcare is a basic human right. There shouldn't have to be a fight between political parties over that. American governments are just too dumb to see that.

Edited 25 March 2017 by China Black

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, SMX11 said:

The Freedom Caucus understood that the ACA wouldn't work. This just strengthens their hand as the death spiral continues.

So this politicking, at the expense of time and money, was all a charade because "oh, this new one was never going to pass anyway, and now we can say we've tried and just wait for the ACA to implode?"

 

If that's true, it's criminally irresponsible.

[Sharpe's Fox]

The War Party can only ever agree on what area of the Asian continent to bomb next

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

The War Party can only ever agree on what area of the Asian continent to bomb next

That's not strictly true...

 

They're pretty good at agreeing on women's health decisions without any women present, too.

 

(All that being said, the Dems don't habe a fantastic recent record when it comes to bombing other countries either.)

[SMX11]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

So this politicking, at the expense of time and money, was all a charade because "oh, this new one was never going to pass anyway, and now we can say we've tried and just wait for the ACA to implode?"

 

If that's true, it's criminally irresponsible.

Most of the Reps don't want to get rid of Obama care hence the watered down version Ryan tried to ram through. It is a shambles that they haven't sought to get some kind of consensus.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, SMX11 said:

Most of the Reps don't want to get rid of Obama care hence the watered down version Ryan tried to ram through. It is a shambles that they haven't sought to get some kind of consensus.

 

Yeah. As I said above, it's unusual that there's that particular kind of shambles within the Repub ranks rather than the Dem ones.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah. As I said above, it's unusual that there's that particular kind of shambles within the Repub ranks rather than the Dem ones.

I'd say it's a pretty normal reaction to having a wilfully blind idiot running your party ie. Labour over here. 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'd say it's a pretty normal reaction to having a wilfully blind idiot running your party ie. Labour over here. 

That's fair, but it has taken this for them to fragment at least a little - that it hasn't before (like when Trump won the nomination) shows how far the Repubs are willing to follow even someone distasteful in order to get stuff implemented.

[Carl the Llama]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That's fair, but it has taken this for them to fragment at least a little - that it hasn't before (like when Trump won the nomination) shows how far the Repubs are willing to follow even someone distasteful in order to get stuff implemented.

The Democrats were willing to follow Hillary dude  But yeah I get your point to a degree though there have been rumblings of discontent in the ranks since day 1 of his nomination, this is it finally coming to the fore.

Edited 25 March 2017 by Carl the Llama

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

The Democrats were willing to follow Hillary dude  But yeah I get your point to a degree though there have been rumblings of discontent in the ranks since day 1 of his nomination, this is it finally coming to the fore.

 

I'm not sure that all or even most of them were, though. The vastly reduced turnout in the most recent election (especially amongst black demographics) is telling on that score. They weren't willing to follow the party line so they stayed at home. The Repubs have far less problem with going against their principles for the sake of having (and keeping) power.

 

That all being said, there are some pretty clear fracture lines appearing now.

[Stadt]

I was thinking the other day that most of the 'scandals' and things said or done would finish most prime ministers here but because he's such a ridiculous figure nothing comes as a shock anymore 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

7 hours ago, SMX11 said:

Most of the Reps don't want to get rid of Obama care hence the watered down version Ryan tried to ram through. It is a shambles that they haven't sought to get some kind of consensus.

 

Given how hard Obama had to fight to get the legislation in place in the first place, I'm pleasantly pleased that it gets to live a little longer at least.

 

Its also an interesting turnaround, given the Republicans castigated the original Obamacare bill when it was put forward. At that time they had managed to move some popular disent against the unknown, where as now there's popular discord against scraping the original bill,  so it just goes to show how hollow politicians can be when votes are riding on an issue.