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Thracian

Erdogan seeks to gain more ground

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39242707

 

Erdogan is a clever strategist and will expect to gain further ground/concessions as a result of his vitriol, and he holds a lot of cards. The Germans, Austrians and Dutch are to be commended for their stance but they'll bend in time. Erdogan won't stop til he gets what he wants. Always gets more than he gives - it's the art of a clever negotiator and  exactly suits his philosophy.         

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8 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Anyone who winds up the liberal elite is fine by me.keep up the right wing backlash against the pathetic petition signers. 'The times they are a 'changin'

Indeed they are. Though I'm not sure widespread war and destruction (which is what the brand of nationalism Erdogan and various others purport leads to practically without fail) is a change that should be lauded.

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10 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Anyone who winds up the liberal elite is fine by me.keep up the right wing backlash against the pathetic petition signers. 'The times they are a 'changin'

... sang the liberal, hippy, folk singer.

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If it's Holland v Turkey, or Europe v Turkey, we need to support Holland and Europe.

 

I know Turkey are in NATO, and can threaten to send millions of Syrians our way, but if the world order is unraveling anyway, what's left of the West should stand up to the autocratic bully.

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3 hours ago, Innovindil said:

So lucky we didn't do a deal with this devil. Can you imagine the sway he would hold over Europe if he had control of the movements of hundreds of thousands of "refugees". 

 

Oh wait... 

 

:rolleyes:

 

It shows how disingenuous the Brexit campaign was when they claimed Turkey was being fast-tracked for EU membership. They are further away than ever, and will remain that way as long as Erdogan is in power.

 

When will people realised that they were conned?

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35 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

It shows how disingenuous the Brexit campaign was when they claimed Turkey was being fast-tracked for EU membership. They are further away than ever, and will remain that way as long as Erdogan is in power.

 

When will people realised that they were conned?

Why are you bringing the brexit campaign up in a erdogan is a muppet thread? 

 

Turkey had little, if anything, to do with brexit. 

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3 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Why are you bringing the brexit campaign up in a erdogan is a muppet thread? 

 

Turkey had little, if anything, to do with brexit. 

Because Brexit and the shockwaves it is causing has everything to do with the rise of nationalism in Europe, and in countries that wanted to be in the EU. Like Turkey.

 

(Also, it was used by the Brexit team as a reason to leave because "flood of Turkish immigrants if we stay in the EU and Turkey gets in!", as mentioned above.)

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5 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Why are you bringing the brexit campaign up in a erdogan is a muppet thread? 

 

Turkey had little, if anything, to do with brexit. 

Your question is fair enough but your second sentence is corrected by the post you quoted, the leave campaign made it part of Brexit, no use pretending otherwise.

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15 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Why are you bringing the brexit campaign up in a erdogan is a muppet thread? 

 

Turkey had little, if anything, to do with brexit. 

 

Turkey had everything to do with Brexit, as Mac and Carl have explained.

 

As disinformation goes, it's right up there with '£350 million to the NHS'. My in-laws voted for Brexit purely based on such scaremongering; I wonder how many others did?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Turkey had everything to do with Brexit, as Mac and Carl have explained.

 

As disinformation goes, it's right up there with '£350 million to the NHS'. My in-laws voted for Brexit purely based on such scaremongering; I wonder how many others did?

 

 

How many voted for remain based solely on remain scaremongering? House prices dropping through the floor? Emergency budgets? 

 

It's complete bull to keep rehashing the same debate. There were lies on both sides, what gives you the right to tell people one set of lies had a greater effect than the other? 

 

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Because Brexit and the shockwaves it is causing has everything to do with the rise of nationalism in Europe, and in countries that wanted to be in the EU. Like Turkey.

 

(Also, it was used by the Brexit team as a reason to leave because "flood of Turkish immigrants if we stay in the EU and Turkey gets in!", as mentioned above.)

Again. And again. And again. I don't give a flying ballsack what farage or borris said or did. A vote for brexit was not, and never will be, an agreement with them or anything they said. 

 

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Your question is fair enough but your second sentence is corrected by the post you quoted, the leave campaign made it part of Brexit, no use pretending otherwise.

"little, IF anything" 

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5 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Again. And again. And again. I don't give a flying ballsack what farage or borris said or did. A vote for brexit was not, and never will be, an agreement with them or anything they said. 

OK. Let's say what they said isn't important.

 

The point regarding the attitudes towards Brexit being linked to the rise of nationalism in Europe still stands. It showed that those sentiments are on the rise everywhere, and could be used as a springboard for movements of a similar type across Europe. And similar sentiments clearly now exist in Turkey, too - as well as other places.

 

It was a pretty obvious pointer before the event and a consequence afterwards.

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1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

OK. Let's say what they said isn't important.

 

The point regarding the attitudes towards Brexit being linked to the rise of nationalism in Europe still stands. It showed that those sentiments are on the rise everywhere, and could be used as a springboard for movements of a similar type across Europe. And similar sentiments clearly now exist in Turkey, too - as well as other places.

 

It was a pretty obvious pointer before the event and a consequence afterwards.

I'm fairly certain nationalistic views were on the rise before brexit was ever a possibility. Hell, they have been on the rise for a long time. 

 

It's not brexit's fault the EU wouldn't reform to suit the people, instead of trying to force the people to suit the EU. 

 

Although as a side note, I am incredibly apologetic that money money money doesn't make me go baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 

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8 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'm fairly certain nationalistic views were on the rise before brexit was ever a possibility. Hell, they have been on the rise for a long time. 

 

It's not brexit's fault the EU wouldn't reform to suit the people, instead of trying to force the people to suit the EU. 

 

Although as a side note, I am incredibly apologetic that money money money doesn't make me go baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 

I agree. Hence my thought that the same nationalistic fervour driving Erdogan and his chums being one of the causes of Brexit, hence it being mentionable in this thread.

 

I'm also of the opinion that the EU could have made all the concessions and reform it liked and it still wouldn't have been enough in some sectors, though that might be disagreed upon.

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37 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

 

 

 what gives you the right to tell people one set of lies had a greater effect than the other? 

 

 

Freedom of speech and expression, and the same right that you have to disagree.

 

Last time I looked it was a discussion forum.

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