Erdogan seeks to gain more ground

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

It shows how disingenuous the Brexit campaign was when they claimed Turkey was being fast-tracked for EU membership. They are further away than ever, and will remain that way as long as Erdogan is in power.

 

When will people realised that they were conned?

Not conned at all on this issue - there are many in continental europe who favour having Turkey as a member. They are a trading nation at the European end of the ever more important and revitalised silk road and whose population is comparable with our own. With Erdogan's caliphate agenda, I still fail to see why we'd see them as a natural ally at all except with regard to their trading potential at a time when the EU and EU economies are bound to come under increasing pressure.  .

 

[Carl the Llama]

20 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

"little, IF anything" 

What was with the video with 2 'regular blokes' chatting about Euro 2016, discussing the sheer size of Turkey's population and how they're probably about to join the EU then (#8 in the video below, at 12:42)?  Or the one where they told us we can't trust David Cameron on Turkey and therefore voting leave will save the NHS (#3 in the video below. at 4:20 (blaze it ayyyyyy))

 

Or indeed the card (leaflet?) they posted through everyone's door where, of the 4 or 5 points they made, Turkey's masses joining the EU was one of them?

 

You're trying to rewrite history if you're telling me it wasn't a relatively prominent point of discussion.  Obviously not as prominent as whether or not it would save us money or give us back control of our country, but it certainly had a bit more than "little, IF anything" to do with Brexit if you're being at all honest about it.

[Innovindil]

6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

What was with the video with 2 'regular blokes' chatting about Euro 2016, discussing the sheer size of Turkey's population and how they're probably about to join the EU then (#8 in the video below, at 12:42)?  Or the one where they told us we can't trust David Cameron on Turkey and therefore voting leave will save the NHS (#3 in the video below. at 4:20 (blaze it ayyyyyy))

 

Or indeed the card (leaflet?) they posted through everyone's door where, of the 4 or 5 points they made, Turkey's masses joining the EU was one of them?

 

You're trying to rewrite history if you're telling me it wasn't a relatively prominent point of discussion.  Obviously not as prominent as whether or not it would save us money or give us back control of our country, but it certainly had a bit more than "little, IF anything" to do with Brexit if you're being at all honest about it.

So we'll go with mr freedom of speech in the other reply to answer this one. My ego isn't big enough to try and speak for the masses or force reasons onto other people. I believe Turkey had little, if anything to do with my brexit vote. 

 

If, because of an advertisement or leaflet you believe that you can accurately reflect the reasoning of a brexit vote does this mean I can say every homeowner that voted remain did so because they were worried their house price would crash? 

 

Of course I could say it. Does that make it true? Or just wild accusations to suit my own viewpoint? 

[Carl the Llama]

20 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

So we'll go with mr freedom of speech in the other reply to answer this one. My ego isn't big enough to try and speak for the masses or force reasons onto other people. I believe Turkey had little, if anything to do with my brexit vote. 

 

If, because of an advertisement or leaflet you believe that you can accurately reflect the reasoning of a brexit vote does this mean I can say every homeowner that voted remain did so because they were worried their house price would crash? 

 

Of course I could say it. Does that make it true? Or just wild accusations to suit my own viewpoint? 

You're being silly.  I never said anything along the lines of 'every person who voted to leave did so because of fears about Turkey' so your comparison is redundant.  All I did was take issue with your assertion that it had nothing to do with Brexit (edit: Sorry, "little if anything") and point you to examples of it being used as a prominent campaign device.  It may be that you didn't take the topic into consideration yourself personally, but it's simply untrue to say that it barely registered in the national conversation, especially when the people saying it won the most votes.  You can debate the precise level of the impact it had all you like, but it's simply a question of historical fact that this as a topic had at least some traction.  To exercise your freedom to say otherwise is to exercise your freedom to be wrong, a freedom you absolutely have and that's because you don't live in a place like Turkey under Erdogan right now (had to bring it back on topic somehow).

 

[Innovindil]

23 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

You're being silly.  I never said anything along the lines of 'every person who voted to leave did so because of fears about Turkey' so your comparison is redundant.  All I did was take issue with your assertion that it had nothing to do with Brexit (edit: Sorry, "little if anything") and point you to examples of it being used as a prominent campaign device.  It may be that you didn't take the topic into consideration yourself personally, but it's simply untrue to say that it barely registered in the national conversation, especially when the people saying it won the most votes.  You can debate the precise level of the impact it had all you like, but it's simply a question of historical fact that this as a topic had at least some traction.  To exercise your freedom to say otherwise is to exercise your freedom to be wrong, a freedom you absolutely have and that's because you don't live in a place like Turkey under Erdogan right now (had to bring it back on topic somehow).

 

So really what you are saying in a very long winded way is that I am allowed (thank you so much) to debate what level of impact it had, and I choose little, if any. 

 

Now on the other hand, that emergency budget propaganda that was spouted everywhere (not going to waste the time getting videos, I'm sure you've seen them) that had a HUGE impact on remain voters voting remain. 

 

That fits my "silly" narrative nicely, I think I'll go with that one. 

 

How long do we rehash the same arguments again? Both sides lied. To show one as overly dishonest and damaging over the other is, at best, wildly naive. 

[Carl the Llama]

18 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

So really what you are saying in a very long winded way is that I am allowed (thank you so much) to debate what level of impact it had, and I choose little, if any. 

 

Now on the other hand, that emergency budget propaganda that was spouted everywhere (not going to waste the time getting videos, I'm sure you've seen them) that had a HUGE impact on remain voters voting remain. 

 

That fits my "silly" narrative nicely, I think I'll go with that one. 

 

How long do we rehash the same arguments again? Both sides lied. To show one as overly dishonest and damaging over the other is, at best, wildly naive. 

You've missed the point.  Again.  And you've ended by making a point irrelevant to the discussion.  Again (although at least this time it was a fair point, not sure where you get the idea I'm saying one side was less honest though, you seem to have a habit for responding to imaginary arguments).  I'm not going to bother explaining why because either you're well aware and you're trying to troll me or you're not and the amount of explanation required will mean this is going to be a conversation that drags on and probably in circles at that, either way I want to enjoy this evening for obvious reasons, or try to anyway.  For everyone's sake I'm stepping out of this thread until it's back on topic.

 

Then I'll come back to help derail it again