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foxes_rule1978

Social anxiety disorder...

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2 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

But I know quite a few people who've gone through CBT sessions and all found them extremely beneficial.

As long as you make sure that it's Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and recognised as such by your GP.

 

Don't, whatever you do, book a session by phone with Yolande or Sadie, otherwise you might end up with more than you can handle.

 

:ph34r: 

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Firstly, well done for having the courage to post this in here. I bet you've been wanting to do this for weeks but kept talking yourself out of it.By doing this you've decided that something has to change, you have to start taking risks and that's a good thing. The problem is when you don't talk to others much you spend too much time inside your own head. You over think things and convince yourself that things are worse than they are.

 

You need to forgive yourself for not being perfect, nobody is, you're no worse than anybody else.

 

Don't think that everyone is judging you, chances are they're not even paying attention to you.

 

Force yourself to talk to people, I know it's hard, I've been there. Ask lots of questions. People love to talk about themselves, let them do the work. While they are gabbing on about themselves you'll be able to think of other questions to ask. "How was your holiday? What part of Tenerife? Did your son get that job he applied for?" etc. It doesn't have to be witty or clever, just show an interest.

 

Finally, get yourself on a dating website, not Tinder, somewhere where they respect women and you have a chance of a relationship.

 

I hope you didn't find that condescending, I know what crippling shyness is like. It took me years to get over it. You'll never be totally over it, but you can be happy.

 

 

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17 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Not sure if I have it, but I'm starting to think so now, through my trembling and almost panicking in situations with people I don't really know. I try to look for alcohol to cover it up, and done that for years, but I need to stop that now, and I want to be able to be social and a good talker and all but I fear being put down and stuff. I think this is an idiotic topic but I really needed to say something, because if anyone else has overcome it then maybe there is hope that I can too. Being this way is difficult and you do make mistakes to try and be something you aren't..  

 

I'm not sure that I can offer much insight into solutions, but I can offer hope.

 

With hindsight, I'm sure that I was afflicted with social anxiety during my teens and twenties.

That was back in the 70s/80s, when it was less usual for people to get support for such conditions, so I never did.

Over years, I somehow forced myself to change my expectations so that, by age 30 or so, I was at ease in my own skin when dealing with groups or strangers.

 

Social situations involving groups or strangers were excruciating in my teens. If I was walking down a street and saw someone coming the other way, I'd turn off to avoid eye contact and the expectation that they would find me ridiculous and laugh at me. While I was OK talking to classmates in ones and twos (my sense of humour helped), I was unable to speak up in groups. I'd expect to blush or for my voice to sound wrong and for people to respond in a hostile or scornful manner. Local lads used to play games of football or cricket at the recreation ground with all-comers welcome; for about 2 years, I repeatedly tried to summon up the courage to go and join in but would end up walking past and away because I somehow expected them to turn round and say, "No! We're not allowing a loser like you to join in!". Of course, when I finally did summon up the courage, I was as welcome as anyone else - it was all in my mind. Even asking a simple question of a stranger in a shop or at a bus stop was a major trauma - I'd be racked with nerves, expecting some ill-defined public humiliation.

 

From when I was 18 to when I was 30, the problem gradually lessened and disappeared. One thing that helped was that, despite expectations of others judging me harshly, deep down I believed that I had something to contribute. Moving away from home to study and live independently was crucial, as was making friends with whom I had more in common (I really only had acquaintances at secondary school). Throughout my twenties, I still found it a stomach-churning experience even saying a few words to a group at uni or work - and could pretty much only speak to attractive women if I was well-oiled. Although I was improving, my inability to be relaxed with a new girlfriend still meant that I couldn't maintain a relationship for more than a couple of months. I think that I subconsciously forced myself to take on difficult social situations: joining activity groups, becoming a union rep, hitch-hiking etc. Although that helped me, I'm certainly not suggesting it is the best way to address such a problem - not in isolation, anyway. I'm sure that some sort of counselling / talking therapy is more likely to guide you towards strategies that have a better chance of success. 

 

Excess booze definitely isn't the solution. If I'm honest, in my late teens/early twenties, alcohol did "oil the wheels" and make it easier for me to handle social situations, but too often I'd end up in a terrible state, alienating friends/girlfriends, getting into scrapes with the police etc. By my early/mid-twenties, when I had some good friends, I didn't even need that "oil" but continued to get in a state out of habit. Some pissheads can teach themselves to drink moderately, but most can't....a different, if connected issue.

 

Good luck whatever route you choose. If I can escape only slightly damaged without support (apart from friends), then your chances with support must be decent.

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That's a surprise to me, @Alf Bentley - your internet persona is one that seems to exude self confidence.

 

I've had problems with this all of my life, and it's never really gone away, I've just found ways to accommodate it.

 

a) I tend to avoid situations that I know are going to make me uncomfortably anxious; for example, my worst nightmare would be attending a dinner party where I don't know people, so I don't attend such gatherings.

 

b) I've grown a thicker skin. The only people whose opinion of me matters is myself, my family and friends. If anyone else has a problem with who I am, then it's their problem, not mine.  I like myself, my friends like me, my family like me, so anybody who doesn't can do one.

 

c) If the worst comes to the worst, and I can't avoid being in an uncomfortable situation, I self-medicate with cannabis (let's not re-open the drugs debate - I know all about the reputation it has for increasing anxiety and I guess for some it does, but it works for me).

 

I know for some this is a treatable issue but for me I honestly believe it to be congenital - no big deal, it's just part of who I am.

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1 hour ago, Wymeswold fox said:

If the issue is related to dating etc, how would you deal with SA in this type of situation (ie. 'first impressions count)?

 

Be yourself.

 

If it gets serious, they are going to see the real you sooner or later, so there's no point in putting on a false front at the start.

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23 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Not sure if I have it, but I'm starting to think so now, through my trembling and almost panicking in situations with people I don't really know. I try to look for alcohol to cover it up, and done that for years, but I need to stop that now, and I want to be able to be social and a good talker and all but I fear being put down and stuff. I think this is an idiotic topic but I really needed to say something, because if anyone else has overcome it then maybe there is hope that I can too. Being this way is difficult and you do make mistakes to try and be something you aren't..  

I've dealt with social anxiety for many, many years, somedays I let my brain overcome me with thoughts and other days I face my demons. It's not easy though and when you have agoraphobia with it aswell, it's like a living nightmare

 

Just try fight it as best you can and get as much help as you can and hopefully you can turn them bad days into more good days. I go through patterns when i face my SA and agoraphobia and kick it's ass but most times unfortunately it does get the better of me but I keep fighting!

 

Sometimes you can fight fire with fire and somedays that method will work but most days with me anyway it won't. It's just about what is best for you and how treatment goes and if it works

 

All the best and taking that first step is the most biggest ??

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13 hours ago, Buce said:

That's a surprise to me, @Alf Bentley - your internet persona is one that seems to exude self confidence.

 

I've had problems with this all of my life, and it's never really gone away, I've just found ways to accommodate it.

 

a) I tend to avoid situations that I know are going to make me uncomfortably anxious; for example, my worst nightmare would be attending a dinner party where I don't know people, so I don't attend such gatherings.

 

b) I've grown a thicker skin. The only people whose opinion of me matters is myself, my family and friends. If anyone else has a problem with who I am, then it's their problem, not mine.  I like myself, my friends like me, my family like me, so anybody who doesn't can do one.

 

c) If the worst comes to the worst, and I can't avoid being in an uncomfortable situation, I self-medicate with cannabis (let's not re-open the drugs debate - I know all about the reputation it has for increasing anxiety and I guess for some it does, but it works for me).

 

I know for some this is a treatable issue but for me I honestly believe it to be congenital - no big deal, it's just part of who I am.

 

 

I'd say that I am now self-confident in most social situations, Buce. That's been more or less true since my 30s. But in my teens, I was a social basket case (even compared to other teenagers) and in my 20s I was socially semi-dysfunctional, if gradually improving.It was that hope of improvement I wanted to offer the OP. I'm aware that could come across as smug, but that's not the intention - I remember only too well how painful I used to find things socially and think I'm massively lucky to have escaped it.

 

I can certainly relate to your "thicker skin" point. If someone credibly expresses a negative opinion of something I've said or done, I'll ask myself whether they've got a point, but if I think they haven't then I won't give a shit what they think of me. As you say, what matters is what you think of yourself and what those you trust, respect and care about think of you.

 

But, of course, when you're afflicted with social anxiety, you can't see it that way. You have to find a way out of that mindset of expecting others to take a scornful, hostile or dismissive view of you. I eventually managed that on my own without formal support - though with the support of friends, particularly one good mate from when I was 18, a very outgoing, sociable bloke a bit older than me who helped me out of my shell and encouraged me to get out and play a part in the world (he sadly drank himself to death about 4 years ago but I'll always view him as the most important person in my life apart from immediate family). Back then, although I expected other people to find me ridiculous or worthless, buried deep within me I didn't think that way about myself. I also had a naturally wilful, contrary personality, which probably improved my chances of fighting my way out of it, compared to some people.

 

However, I'm sure that somebody stands a much better chance of escaping or reducing the damage of social anxiety if they get support through counselling or therapy. It could help someone get a more realistic view of other people's attitudes. My only experience of talking therapies is of counselling for alcohol abuse. I found that useful on two levels: trying to understand yourself better and getting practical tips. Looking back to when my teenage self couldn't face walking into the recreation ground to join in games of football, expecting rejection, my expectations now seem completely irrational. But at the time, somebody would have had as little chance convincing me that it would be OK as they would have done persuading me that I could fly to the moon. If I'd had counselling back then, a counselor might have discovered that I had a classmate who went along and that I could have arranged to turn up with him the first time....a simple tip like that might have saved me a couple of years of isolation and anguish.

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17 hours ago, Webbo said:

Firstly, well done for having the courage to post this in here. I bet you've been wanting to do this for weeks but kept talking yourself out of it.By doing this you've decided that something has to change, you have to start taking risks and that's a good thing. The problem is when you don't talk to others much you spend too much time inside your own head. You over think things and convince yourself that things are worse than they are.

 

You need to forgive yourself for not being perfect, nobody is, you're no worse than anybody else.

 

Don't think that everyone is judging you, chances are they're not even paying attention to you.

 

Force yourself to talk to people, I know it's hard, I've been there. Ask lots of questions. People love to talk about themselves, let them do the work. While they are gabbing on about themselves you'll be able to think of other questions to ask. "How was your holiday? What part of Tenerife? Did your son get that job he applied for?" etc. It doesn't have to be witty or clever, just show an interest.

 

Finally, get yourself on a dating website, not Tinder, somewhere where they respect women and you have a chance of a relationship.

 

I hope you didn't find that condescending, I know what crippling shyness is like. It took me years to get over it. You'll never be totally over it, but you can be happy.

 

 

If you ever give up Painting and decorating there is a career waiting for you in motivational interviewing - you'd be a natural!

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6 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

If you ever give up Painting and decorating there is a career waiting for you in motivational interviewing - you'd be a natural!

Thankyou.I was a bit worried it would come across like one of those American self help books. I was just speaking from experience.  The nature of internet forums means there's probably a lot with similar problems on here, I hope it helps some. Social phobia/anxiety needlessly ruins so many lives

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5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Thankyou.I was a bit worried it would come across like one of those American self help books. I was just speaking from experience.  The nature of internet forums means there's probably a lot with similar problems on here, I hope it helps some. Social phobia/anxiety needlessly ruins so many lives

 

Actually, it was very eloquent, Webbo.

 

All the more because you're usually economical with your words.

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9 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

I'd say that I am now self-confident in most social situations, Buce. That's been more or less true since my 30s. But in my teens, I was a social basket case (even compared to other teenagers) and in my 20s I was socially semi-dysfunctional, if gradually improving.It was that hope of improvement I wanted to offer the OP. I'm aware that could come across as smug, but that's not the intention - I remember only too well how painful I used to find things socially and think I'm massively lucky to have escaped it.

 

I can certainly relate to your "thicker skin" point. If someone credibly expresses a negative opinion of something I've said or done, I'll ask myself whether they've got a point, but if I think they haven't then I won't give a shit what they think of me. As you say, what matters is what you think of yourself and what those you trust, respect and care about think of you.

 

But, of course, when you're afflicted with social anxiety, you can't see it that way. You have to find a way out of that mindset of expecting others to take a scornful, hostile or dismissive view of you. I eventually managed that on my own without formal support - though with the support of friends, particularly one good mate from when I was 18, a very outgoing, sociable bloke a bit older than me who helped me out of my shell and encouraged me to get out and play a part in the world (he sadly drank himself to death about 4 years ago but I'll always view him as the most important person in my life apart from immediate family). Back then, although I expected other people to find me ridiculous or worthless, buried deep within me I didn't think that way about myself. I also had a naturally wilful, contrary personality, which probably improved my chances of fighting my way out of it, compared to some people.

 

However, I'm sure that somebody stands a much better chance of escaping or reducing the damage of social anxiety if they get support through counselling or therapy. It could help someone get a more realistic view of other people's attitudes. My only experience of talking therapies is of counselling for alcohol abuse. I found that useful on two levels: trying to understand yourself better and getting practical tips. Looking back to when my teenage self couldn't face walking into the recreation ground to join in games of football, expecting rejection, my expectations now seem completely irrational. But at the time, somebody would have had as little chance convincing me that it would be OK as they would have done persuading me that I could fly to the moon. If I'd had counselling back then, a counselor might have discovered that I had a classmate who went along and that I could have arranged to turn up with him the first time....a simple tip like that might have saved me a couple of years of isolation and anguish.

 

Yeah, I think I mis-read your post the first time, Alf.

 

Kudos for overcoming it, mate. :)

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2 hours ago, Webbo said:

Thankyou.I was a bit worried it would come across like one of those American self help books. I was just speaking from experience.  The nature of internet forums means there's probably a lot with similar problems on here, I hope it helps some. Social phobia/anxiety needlessly ruins so many lives

I make my living by coming across like those American self help books lol

Great words of wisdom Webbo, I never realised how much you cared :)

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On 3/12/2017 at 23:23, foxes_rule1978 said:

Not sure if I have it, but I'm starting to think so now, through my trembling and almost panicking in situations with people I don't really know. I try to look for alcohol to cover it up, and done that for years, but I need to stop that now, and I want to be able to be social and a good talker and all but I fear being put down and stuff. I think this is an idiotic topic but I really needed to say something, because if anyone else has overcome it then maybe there is hope that I can too. Being this way is difficult and you do make mistakes to try and be something you aren't..  

as someone that suffers from this you have done well to speak out about it. all you can do is challenge yourself a little every day. 

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I am a little surprised at some of the posters that have 'come out'. Most of the posters seem confident and speak their mind. It seems that depressions and anxiety disorders is more common than some would have us believe especially those in authority. I expect this is due to advances in knowledge in the area. In groups I am in on Facebook there are many that speak about the 'hidden disabilities'. Many say that on the surface they are happy go lucky and cheerful but inside they are hurting. It is hard to detect and diagnose. I know some people that suffer with depression and they seem more self confident than me. I have always had low esteem but accepted that I would never be a high acheiver and been content with what I do have.

To put the medical knowledge side into context, from birth I have had a condition called NF. (Neurofibromas) which is enlargement of blood vessels so they are visible. Without knowing some may have this to be contagious a few years back which may have held me back.( I could be paranoid and be wrong) For instance would an employer want me in a public meeting role? There is more known about the condition now and I myself only researched it a few years back. Even doctors knew little. It was only after a hospital visit and being told that I looked into it. That coupled with my shyness have left me lacking in girlfriends but on the plus side I have not had to go through a nagging wife, dirty nappies screaming toddlers, uncontrollable teenagers, divorce or alimony. :) payments.  When I look at what could have been I look at the worst aspects so everything turns out OK.

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18 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

I am a little surprised at some of the posters that have 'come out'. Most of the posters seem confident and speak their mind. It seems that depressions and anxiety disorders is more common than some would have us believe especially those in authority. I expect this is due to advances in knowledge in the area. In groups I am in on Facebook there are many that speak about the 'hidden disabilities'. Many say that on the surface they are happy go lucky and cheerful but inside they are hurting. It is hard to detect and diagnose. I know some people that suffer with depression and they seem more self confident than me. I have always had low esteem but accepted that I would never be a high acheiver and been content with what I do have.

To put the medical knowledge side into context, from birth I have had a condition called NF. (Neurofibromas) which is enlargement of blood vessels so they are visible. Without knowing some may have this to be contagious a few years back which may have held me back.( I could be paranoid and be wrong) For instance would an employer want me in a public meeting role? There is more known about the condition now and I myself only researched it a few years back. Even doctors knew little. It was only after a hospital visit and being told that I looked into it. That coupled with my shyness have left me lacking in girlfriends but on the plus side I have not had to go through a nagging wife, dirty nappies screaming toddlers, uncontrollable teenagers, divorce or alimony. :) payments.  When I look at what could have been I look at the worst aspects so everything turns out OK.

I think that many of us have suffered some disadvantage in our lives, either temporarily or long term so I think its easy to empathise with people.  I have no experience of your condition at all but it seems to affect you physically and your perception that others will judge you on that basis.  I hope that this doesn't sound patronising but I really don't think that's the case for the majority of us.  In my youth I went out with the subset of girls that I liked who also liked me.  They didn't have to be beautiful but I had to like them.  Someone once told me (as I'm no Tom Cruise) that if you wanted to be desired it helped if you were desirable but if you wanted to be loved you just had to be lovable.

 

I have suffered the lack of self confidence issue where I told myself that every other bloke in the universe was more attractive than me but then I found a little trick to put my thoughts into a more rational perspective.  I'd walk into town and look at the first twenty men of my age I saw and I'd ask myself if I'd swap bodies with them.  It's amazing how many imperfections you then suddenly notice in others; number one, 100 kg plus, nope, number two, looks like he couldn't smile if he won the lottery, number three, I thought I was unfortunate, but...  need I go on.  I usually ended up with less than 25% I'd swap with, which made me feel a whole lot better.

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A few weeks ago I had a bloke say to me as he walked by 'You were good in the Planet of The Apes'. I just smiled and thought You sad git. I wonder if he would have said anything if I was built like a wrestler? What sort of person feels the need to insult perfect strangers? A good response would be to say, 'I was also good in Kung Fu and Die Hard. That is one person I would not swap with. Others are the sort of bloke that shouted from cars. Probably to 'impress' their mates. No you are not my mate.

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39 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

A few weeks ago I had a bloke say to me as he walked by 'You were good in the Planet of The Apes'. I just smiled and thought You sad git. I wonder if he would have said anything if I was built like a wrestler? What sort of person feels the need to insult perfect strangers? A good response would be to say, 'I was also good in Kung Fu and Die Hard. That is one person I would not swap with. Others are the sort of bloke that shouted from cars. Probably to 'impress' their mates. No you are not my mate.

Any person who needs to belittle others to feel good about themselves is in a worse place than you. Hold your head high and be glad you're not him.

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52 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

A few weeks ago I had a bloke say to me as he walked by 'You were good in the Planet of The Apes'. I just smiled and thought You sad git. I wonder if he would have said anything if I was built like a wrestler? What sort of person feels the need to insult perfect strangers? A good response would be to say, 'I was also good in Kung Fu and Die Hard. That is one person I would not swap with. Others are the sort of bloke that shouted from cars. Probably to 'impress' their mates. No you are not my mate.

 

11 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Any person who needs to belittle others to feel good about themselves is in a worse place than you. Hold your head high and be glad you're not him.

 

Yep, he's the one with the problem.

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I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of me, I've not always felt like this but it certainly is much easier to live this way. I found that since I was forced to be more social in a job that involved lots of social situations and I've never looked back. Naturally I'm more reclusive. I think the key is not to be overawed by anyone and not admire other people's qualities too much. 

I think before, I used to have no conviction in my opinions, so was more likely to follow the general consensus, which allows you to hide away. Don't be scared to say what you think, you have to learn to like yourself before you can expect others to like you.

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Yeah I've known people that have been reserved and under confident but have become different people. One was a lad who was in a hostel. He had had a terrible time. Split up with a GF then found himself homeless. He was persuaded to join a running group at the hostel. He found that it helped. Finished up doing the Leicester Marathon. Another bloke had been mistreated as a child. He was living in a caravan and given a fortnights notice to leave with nowhere to go. He ended up with DNO and doing radio hosting and even interviewed Soulsby.

In my last line of work I had to confront the public as a security officer. For some reason having the uniform gave more more confidence and people listened if I asked them to do something. I would say those years in that job and my volunteering have been the most rewarding. Doing the radio was great too. The audience was not large but as a group we were putting out a message and contributing to an online discussion and my opion was considered as worthy as the rest. Noone that did it put anyone else down.

I don't have any regrets though, even my earlier mundane job which I came to dislike. If I had changed jobs and caree I may not be the person I am and be the kind of person I do not want to be. Or are we the same personality no matter what happens?

It's a different topic but one of my pet interests is what someone called social anthropology which is how an environment in which a person is born into affects their lives and way of thinking. Your family, school, friends and workplace all have some kind of impact on your life. . 

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11 hours ago, Rincewind said:

A few weeks ago I had a bloke say to me as he walked by 'You were good in the Planet of The Apes'. I just smiled and thought You sad git. I wonder if he would have said anything if I was built like a wrestler? What sort of person feels the need to insult perfect strangers? A good response would be to say, 'I was also good in Kung Fu and Die Hard. That is one person I would not swap with. Others are the sort of bloke that shouted from cars. Probably to 'impress' their mates. No you are not my mate.

He's very likely to have said it as he's got some form of mental health issue.

Personally disturbed, and bit the bullet and took some of his frustration in not sorting himself out by negatively commenting on others to make them feel more better about themselves.

 

Therefore, wouldn't take this on the chin and shrug it off.

No mentally-settled person who say such a thing to someone they never seen before. Just glad you didn't reply and said something about him, as it could've made him react more and the situation potentially could've been a lot worse..

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6 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

He's very likely to have said it as he's got some form of mental health issue.

Personally disturbed, and bit the bullet and took some of his frustration in not sorting himself out by negatively commenting on others to make them feel more better about themselves.

 

Therefore, wouldn't take this on the chin and shrug it off.

No mentally-settled person who say such a thing to someone they never seen before. Just glad you didn't reply and said something about him, as it could've made him react more and the situation potentially could've been a lot worse..

Mmmm I think he should of just shit in his hand and thrown it at him, and shouted is that ape enough for you!

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On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 23:23, foxes_rule1978 said:

Not sure if I have it, but I'm starting to think so now, through my trembling and almost panicking in situations with people I don't really know. I try to look for alcohol to cover it up, and done that for years, but I need to stop that now, and I want to be able to be social and a good talker and all but I fear being put down and stuff. I think this is an idiotic topic but I really needed to say something, because if anyone else has overcome it then maybe there is hope that I can too. Being this way is difficult and you do make mistakes to try and be something you aren't..  

Do you get panicky in Supermarkets? Near checkouts?

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