Madeleine McCann

[Head Honcho]

No-one would criticise you for that at all but people do make mistakes/misjudgements - and tragic ones sometimes - over their kids, on the road, in their everday decisions.

The parents of that litle girl will have learned a lesson in the most unforgiving and irrepairable way I imagine - and they won't benefit from further punishment at some later date.

No they won't benefit from being punished further I agree, but it may prevent others from doing the same!

I'm not sure a crime has been committed by the parents. I think I read somewhere that it isn't illegal to leave your children home alone in Portugal. It may have just been press talk but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Craig]

No they won't benefit from being punished further I agree, but it may prevent others from doing the same!

I'm not sure a crime has been committed by the parents. I think I read somewhere that it isn't illegal to leave your children home alone in Portugal. It may have just been press talk but it wouldn't surprise me.

Errrm... the biggest punishment possibly has been handed to them, and we all make mistakes anyway, the majority of people will take more notice of an abduction rather than a fine or custodial sentence.

Let's not forget that there's a little girl out there that's been abducted, it's not her fault that her parents left her alone. It's her i worry for.

All this arguing and bitching about the parents is pointless.

[AoWW]

I feel deeply sorry for the parents of this child, because nobody deserves to have their child abducted. It's not right and it's not fair. I won't sit here and lie, I do find them leaving the girl on her own irresponsible and I can't for the life of me understand why they'd do it. But I can be sure in saying they're asking themselves why they did it and beating themselves up for it now, wishing they hadn't done it.

I do hope that she's found safe, but I honestly can't see the girl being found alive, if at all. And I hope to God that she hasn't been sexually assaulted.

Well said.

[Head Honcho]

Errrm... the biggest punishment possibly has been handed to them, and we all make mistakes anyway, the majority of people will take more notice of an abduction rather than a fine or custodial sentence.

Let's not forget that there's a little girl out there that's been abducted, it's not her fault that her parents left her alone. It's her i worry for.

All this arguing and bitching about the parents is pointless.

So by your reasoning. The next time someone lashes out at a spouse and inadvertently kills them. We let them off do we? Because they've suffered enough. They didn't mean it so we'll let them off!

No wonder this country is going to the dogs!

Our children can very rarely look after themselves, thats why in this country we have laws to protect them.

If Maddy is still alive, she will undoubtedly be suffering and you're telling me you'd let the people primarily responsible for her suffering get away with it ?

[Daggers]

If Maddy is still alive, she will undoubtedly be suffering and you're telling me you'd let the people primarily responsible for her suffering get away with it ?

You are losing the plot on this one mate...There is only one person primarily responsible for her suffering and it's the **** that took her.

If other parents haven't noted what has happened and changed how they will act in future accordingly then no farce of a ****ed up trial is going to change their ways.

We've left our kids with local women brought in by the hotel, neither vetted or employees of the hotels themselves, across the Caribbean and South America. If something had happened - would it have been our fault?

As I've said, everyone makes judgement calls based on what they perceive as the current factors...and judging them serves no purpose. You may have done the same or different in their position. It's wholly irrelevant.

There are only two important factors in this: the poor child is returned to her parents unharmed and the ****er that took her is punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[Hullfox]

I've put off reading this thread until now because I feared what some people's views may be.

I sort of wish I hadn't done it now.

davieG, you have said everything that I would have wanted to but far more eloquently and well reasoned.

[Thracian]

So by your reasoning. The next time someone lashes out at a spouse and inadvertently kills them. We let them off do we? Because they've suffered enough. They didn't mean it so we'll let them off!

No wonder this country is going to the dogs!

Our children can very rarely look after themselves, thats why in this country we have laws to protect them.

If Maddy is still alive, she will undoubtedly be suffering and you're telling me you'd let the people primarily responsible for her suffering get away with it ?

Because they've made a dreadful mistake not committed a crime or been deliberately reckless in a way that might result in a crime.

The crime was clearly and calculatingly committed by a third party - and there is no way the parents might reasonably had antipated such an appalling event.

In fact I hear of reports that police over there were reportedly aware of a paedophile ring operating in the area and had done nothing about it for whatever reason.

What about their responsibility if the offender turns out to be someone connected with that ring?.

The parents have not "got away with it" and I cannot imagine how you can suggest that.

I doubt the parents will ever get over their suffering. They face years and years of inner turmoil and self-criticism which will have no resolution.

What earthly purpose would judicial punishment serve and how would it act as a deterrent to others? Millions of parents would have read the story and adjusted their attitudes already if they're ever going to.

[Craig]

So by your reasoning. The next time someone lashes out at a spouse and inadvertently kills them. We let them off do we? Because they've suffered enough. They didn't mean it so we'll let them off!

No wonder this country is going to the dogs!

Our children can very rarely look after themselves, thats why in this country we have laws to protect them.

If Maddy is still alive, she will undoubtedly be suffering and you're telling me you'd let the people primarily responsible for her suffering get away with it ?

They are not primarily responsible.

:rolleyes:

[Stuliasz]

Its quite incredible the blame culture that occurs in this country. For everything that happens, someone other than the perpetrator is apparently to blame. Take the 7/7 bombings for instance, the media have been trying to blame everyone from immigration officials to Tony Blair to everyone else within the vicinity on the day...how about the three blokes who actually tried to carry out the flamin deed???

[Katy]

Forgive me for focusing on what is important here but Sky News have said there's a chance the Police are scaling down their search. I hope this isn't true, this needs to be kept in the public domain until she is found. The CCTV footage of a woman and a child fitting Madeleines description is encouraging.

As i've been trying to say in this thread, the only important person who we should be concerned about is the lass that is missing. It's not for us to play judge and jury.

I let my nearly 4 year old play in our relatively large garden with it's low, wooden slatted easy access fences. If some nonce nipped in and took her in between me looking out for her (probably every few minutes) shall I expect to be called a terrible, irresponsible parent by the Court of Foxestalk then?

[James.]

I'm sick of people saying it's not for us to comment on, we shouldn't play judge and jury, let's just think about the girl, etc etc.

Of course we are thinking about Madelaine but this is an internet forum and a specific thread for discussion of the issues surrounding the disappearance. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on the various points that have been raised from the actions of the police to the responsibilities of the parents.

It'd be a worrying day when free speech and the right to voice an opinion were squeezed out of a discussion in favour of a "respectful" silence.

[Katy]

I'm sick of people saying it's not for us to comment on, we shouldn't play judge and jury, let's just think about the girl, etc etc.

Of course we are thinking about Madelaine but this is an internet forum and a specific thread for discussion of the issues surrounding the disappearance. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on the various points that have been raised from the actions of the police to the responsibilities of the parents.

It'd be a worrying day when free speech and the right to voice an opinion were squeezed out of a discussion in favour of a "respectful" silence.

Carry on being sick then, because i'm not going to stop saying it's totally pointless slagging off the parents now when there's more important things to worry about.

Of course it's not right to have left those children alone, i don't agree with it at all but if you want someone to blame right now, then blame the child snatcher!

[James.]

Carry on being sick then, because i'm not going to stop saying it's totally pointless slagging off the parents now when there's more important things to worry about.

Of course it's not right to have left those children alone, i don't agree with it at all but if you want someone to blame right now, then blame the child snatcher!

There is a difference between slagging off parents and debating issues surrounding parental responsbility.

Like you I would rather not get involved in a blame game as that doesn't solve anything but there is nothing wrong with sensible discussion.

[Katy]

There is a difference between slagging off parents and debating issues surrounding parental responsbility.

Like you I would rather not get involved in a blame game as that doesn't solve anything but there is nothing wrong with sensible discussion.

Of course there isn't but I think you will agree that some people in this thread have taken it a tad far, without being in FULL possession of the facts.

[lcfc_jme]

Of course there isn't but I think you will agree that some people in this thread have taken it a tad far, without being in FULL possession of the facts.

Which isn't up for dispute and I think is the reason why Hull Fox said what he did a little earlier in the thread. There's always going to be debate surrounding matters of public interest like this, and there'll also be speculation as to the actual facts of the case. It doesn't help when you have people believing absolutely everything they read in the media to be cast-iron, stonewall facts and take everything they hear as Gospel.

[Katy]

Which isn't up for dispute and I think is the reason why Hull Fox said what he did a little earlier in the thread. There's always going to be debate surrounding matters of public interest like this, and there'll also be speculation as to the actual facts of the case. It doesn't help when you have people believing absolutely everything they read in the media to be cast-iron, stonewall facts and take everything they hear as Gospel.

I don't think you meant Hull Fox did you.

[BigGibbo]

theres not much more i can add there are many unanswered questions that i hope don't stay unanswered for much longer!

i am joining in the prayers for the safe return of Madeleine McCann

[Head Honcho]

They are not primarily responsible.

:rolleyes:

What! Are you having a laugh?

Parents are primarily responsible for the safety of their children and failing this mean they are primarily responsible for their disappearance. God give me strength. How stupid can you be not to realise this?

Is there any evidence that she was even snatched? I don't know as Davieg says we are all just speculating.

Hypothetical now. But lets say a child has been left alone, they wake up and decide to go walkabout and disappear.

Who would you blame for that? The Child? It's the fault of the parents. How hard is that for you to understand?

Edited 10 May 2007 by Allen

[Craig]

What! Are you having a laugh?

Parents are primarily responsible for the safety of their children and failing this mean they are primarily responsible for their disappearance. God give me strength. How stupid can you be not to realise this?

Is there any evidence that she was even snatched? I don't know as Davieg says we are all just speculating.

Hypothetical now. But lets say a child has been left alone, they wake up and decide to go walkabout and disappear.

Who would you blame for that? The Child? It's the fault of the parents. How hard is that for you to understand?

If it weren't Madeline, it would probably have been some other kid.

If they wanted to abduct a child, they would have.

Irresponsible, maybe. But primarily responsible, no way.

And if you're telling me that Madeline could open them shutters, and just disappear of the face of the world, without anybody noticing her walking about alone... dillusional.

[Jon the Hat]

What! Are you having a laugh?

Parents are primarily responsible for the safety of their children and failing this mean they are primarily responsible for their disappearance. God give me strength. How stupid can you be not to realise this?

Is there any evidence that she was even snatched? I don't know as Davieg says we are all just speculating.

Hypothetical now. But lets say a child has been left alone, they wake up and decide to go walkabout and disappear.

Who would you blame for that? The Child? It's the fault of the parents. How hard is that for you to understand?

Did you really just write that rubbish? You are responsible for your own safety, but if you go to sleep tonight and someone kills you in your bed is that your fault? Muppet.

[Phube]

I'm not gonna comment specifically, but I believe the situation is like the new(ish) car crime adverts.

They almost make out it's your fault if your car gets broken into, but at the same time anyone stupid enough to leave a briefcase/leather jacket in their car in plain view, can't really complain when they get nicked!! Obviously it's the thieving scumbag's fault it was nicked, but as we know these scum are out there there is a way to minimise risks.

Also the same with women walking around at 2am on their own, they're not at fault... but it's not particularly sensible though is it.

That's my two pennies worth.

[Head Honcho]

Did you really just write that rubbish? You are responsible for your own safety, but if you go to sleep tonight and someone kills you in your bed is that your fault? Muppet.

If you've taken all reasonable steps to prevent it then no it isn't but If you're stupid enough to allow someone to enter your house and kill you then it is indeed your fault.

The parents of Maddy as far as we can tell never took reasonable steps to ensure her safety so whose fault is it?

Muppet

Edited 10 May 2007 by Allen

[Katy]

Arguing aside, according to Sky News police have 3 prime suspects, two men and a woman seen with a young girl. Fingers crossed it's her and she's still alive.

[Craig]

If you've taken all reasonable steps to prevent it then no it isn't but If you're stupid enough to allow someone to enter your house and kill you then it is indeed your fault.

The parents of Maddy as far as we can tell never took reasonable steps to ensure her safety so whose fault is it?

Muppet

[Ric Flair]

Arguing aside, according to Sky News police have 3 prime suspects, two men and a woman seen with a young girl. Fingers crossed it's her and she's still alive.

Let's hope so.