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Daggers

What grinds my gears...

By Daggers, in General Chat

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ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, potter3 said:

So from what I can gather, Oz thinks it's better that to be in a situation where we're telling rape victims that it wasn't their fault, after a rape has occurred, than to be reminding women that we do in fact live in the real world, and there are people out there that will hurt you given half a chance? Mind-boggling. 

No... what i am saying is that if a judge, after the rape says.... "women were putting themselves in danger by drinking" (quote from the story) ...then that judge is placing SOME blame on the victim.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/megan-clark-rape-victim-manchester-12807073

 

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potter3

potter3

Posted
Posted

“Girls are perfectly entitled to drink themselves into the ground but should be aware people who are potential defendants to rape, gravitate towards girls who have been drinking.

“It should not be like that but it does happen and we see it time and time again.”

 

How is that in any way blaming the victim? As she says, it shouldn't happen - unfortunately it does and people need to be aware of that.

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AKCJ

AKCJ

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, ozleicester said:

No... what i am saying is that if a judge, after the rape says.... "women were putting themselves in danger by drinking" (quote from the story) ...then that judge is placing SOME blame on the victim.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/megan-clark-rape-victim-manchester-12807073

 

Have you watched the video in that article?

 

 

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted

I see where Oz is coming from.  There should be no blame whatsoever attributed to the victim.  I just think he is trying for some line of perfection which means we cannot talk about personal safety of women without being accused of victim blaming.  My original point was that if an experienced female judge, who made it very very clear that she doesn't blame the victim, cant say something without criticism, then this is a very unhelpful position to be in, and far from teaching our young people to keep themselves safe in the face of very real threats, we are telling them it is not their fault whatever happens so do what you like without thought of the possible outcomes should you be unfortunate enough to come across a criminal.

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Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I see where Oz is coming from.  There should be no blame whatsoever attributed to the victim.  I just think he is trying for some line of perfection which means we cannot talk about personal safety of women without being accused of victim blaming.  My original point was that if an experienced female judge, who made it very very clear that she doesn't blame the victim, cant say something without criticism, then this is a very unhelpful position to be in, and far from teaching our young people to keep themselves safe in the face of very real threats, we are telling them it is not their fault whatever happens so do what you like without thought of the possible outcomes should you be unfortunate enough to come across a criminal.

#yolo

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AKCJ

AKCJ

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I see where Oz is coming from.  There should be no blame whatsoever attributed to the victim.  I just think he is trying for some line of perfection which means we cannot talk about personal safety of women without being accused of victim blaming.  My original point was that if an experienced female judge, who made it very very clear that she doesn't blame the victim, cant say something without criticism, then this is a very unhelpful position to be in, and far from teaching our young people to keep themselves safe in the face of very real threats, we are telling them it is not their fault whatever happens so do what you like without thought of the possible outcomes should you be unfortunate enough to come across a criminal.

The way I see it is a bit like this.

 

There's a thunderstorm and I go outside and get hit by thunder.

 

I'm not to blame but I could have been a bit more careful about it, there was a risk and I took it.

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ajthefox

ajthefox

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

The way I see it is a bit like this.

 

There's a thunderstorm and I go outside and get hit by thunder.

 

I'm not to blame but I could have been a bit more careful about it, there was a risk and I took it.

I think one of the big problems with this issue is the use of language.

 

The judges statement above is very clear, but your analogy and the use of risk feels a little odd to me, or at least not the best way of putting it. Having said that, I don't doubt your understanding of the issue or of what you are trying to get at.

 

Point being, there are obviously a set of people who will victim blame because they are ignorant, but I also think that the majority of people who are fairly understanding of rape and the issue surrounding victim blaming are also just a couple of words away from offending someone else who interprets their language in a particular way. It doesn't matter if you say "the victim is not to blame" if what you go on to say afterwards is clumsily worded and is deemed offensive by someone else which, let's face it, seems fairly commonplace today.

Edited by ajthefox
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

I think one of the big problems with this issue is the use of language.

 

The judges statement above is very clear, but your analogy and the use of risk feels a little odd to me, or at least not the best way of putting it. Having said that, I don't doubt your understanding of the issue or of what you are trying to get at.

 

Point being, there are obviously a set of people who will victim blame because they are ignorant, but I also think that the majority of people who are fairly understanding of rape and the issue surrounding victim blaming are also just a couple of words away from offending someone else who interprets their language in a particular way. It doesn't matter if you say "the victim is not to blame" if what you go on to say afterwards is clumsily worded and is deemed offensive by someone else.

This, especially the use of language part.

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AKCJ

AKCJ

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

I think one of the big problems with this issue is the use of language.

 

The judges statement above is very clear, but your analogy and the use of risk feels a little odd to me, or at least not the best way of putting it. Having said that, I don't doubt your understanding of the issue or of what you are trying to get at.

 

Point being, there are obviously a set of people who will victim blame because they are ignorant, but I also think that the majority of people who are fairly understanding of rape and the issue surrounding victim blaming are also just a couple of words away from offending someone else who interprets their language in a particular way. It doesn't matter if you say "the victim is not to blame" if what you go on to say afterwards is clumsily worded and is deemed offensive by someone else which, let's face it, seems fairly commonplace today.

It's a sensitive topic, it's difficult to not offend when talking about it.

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AKCJ

AKCJ

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bovril said:

Not comparing it to a weather phenomenon would be a good start.

Why?

 

I'm only using an analogy to say that things can happen that aren't your fault but that you could have done things to lower the risk of it happening.

 

Sorry if that offends you.

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sphericalfox

sphericalfox

Posted
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Posted
On 29/03/2017 at 11:35, AKCJ said:

The way I see it is a bit like this.

 

There's a thunderstorm and I go outside and get hit by thunder.

 

I'm not to blame but I could have been a bit more careful about it, there was a risk and I took it.

If someone ever got hit by thunder I'd be mightily impressed.

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stix

stix

Posted
Posted

A fixed penalty notice for going in a bus lane has ground my gears today. I wasn't aware that there were anpr cameras on the Lutterworth road, bastards. 

 

it was at 4:30 as well! Like any buses were running then anyway!

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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, sphericalfox said:

I think Brian Jonhson was once, but it's unverified 

lol I almost posted that song on here.

Might put it on the music section actually- quality tune :thumbup:

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