Safe Standing - Support the Early Day motion

[Stadt]

 

34 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

I realise I might be swimming against the tide on this one but I raised my only voice (in solitary maybe) to say my piece.

 i can see no benefit in going back to standing whatsoever. I've stood on the Kop at filbert street when it was like a morgue, atmosphere comes from success and anticipation hence its great at the KP at the moment, especially on European nights.

 You won't pay less and you will probably end up with a worse view etc etc. To me is a nostalgic nonsense.

I don't want to come across as condescending but you do know that rail seating is nothing like the old terraces?

[Harry - LCFC]

1 hour ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

I realise I might be swimming against the tide on this one but I raised my only voice (in solitary maybe) to say my piece.

 i can see no benefit in going back to standing whatsoever. I've stood on the Kop at filbert street when it was like a morgue, atmosphere comes from success and anticipation hence its great at the KP at the moment, especially on European nights.

 You won't pay less and you will probably end up with a worse view etc etc. To me is a nostalgic nonsense.

I think we observe a pretty strong link between standing and singing. Those who stand tend to be more likely to raise their voices on a matchday. I'm confident that encouraging more people to stand would improve the atmosphere in the KP still further.

 

Short people would have to make sure they're not stood behind a tall bloke but for everyone else the view of the pitch is the same as in a seated area.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

I realise I might be swimming against the tide on this one but I raised my only voice (in solitary maybe) to say my piece.

 i can see no benefit in going back to standing whatsoever. I've stood on the Kop at filbert street when it was like a morgue, atmosphere comes from success and anticipation hence its great at the KP at the moment, especially on European nights.

 You won't pay less and you will probably end up with a worse view etc etc. To me is a nostalgic nonsense.

Well one benefit is we can increase our capacity by a thousand or so without having to knock half of Leicester down. Another is we would be able to point the finger when it's a crap atmosphere because we would have an area that is designated as a "stand here if you want to make some noise cos that's why we've gone to the effort of putting this railing seating here", another is you'd be able to stand up and not have to pass your kids to the front to prevent them getting crushed, something certain other clubs would have benefited from in the past. At the end of the day it's not as though the whole stadium is going to be standing, so the fans that wish to stand will be happy and the fans that wish to sit will also be happy, everyone's a winner and there ain't many times you can say that at a football match. Where's the negative, apart from it'll piss the fans off that want to be nostalgic and tell their grandkids that they were part of the generation that stood side by side on the spion kop. (the spion kop was a hill in south africa where the british fought against the boers, by the way)

[purpleronnie]

29 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well one benefit is we can increase our capacity by a thousand or so without having to knock half of Leicester down. Another is we would be able to point the finger when it's a crap atmosphere because we would have an area that is designated as a "stand here if you want to make some noise cos that's why we've gone to the effort of putting this railing seating here", another is you'd be able to stand up and not have to pass your kids to the front to prevent them getting crushed, something certain other clubs would have benefited from in the past. At the end of the day it's not as though the whole stadium is going to be standing, so the fans that wish to stand will be happy and the fans that wish to sit will also be happy, everyone's a winner and there ain't many times you can say that at a football match. Where's the negative, apart from it'll piss the fans off that want to be nostalgic and tell their grandkids that they were part of the generation that stood side by side on the spion kop. (the spion kop was a hill in south africa where the british fought against the boers, by the way)

Does make you wonder IF this ever happened in the top division you would just get loads of people standing in the rail seating in silence, just like 1000's stand in silence most weeks in the premiership.

 

I can't see it improving atmosphere but for me that's not the point.

 

It's all about choice.

 

It's crazy that fans who pay through the nose still don't have a choice to stand without hassle either from stewards or fellow fans who wish to sit.

 

[FraserSorensen]

 

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

Does make you wonder IF this ever happened in the top division you would just get loads of people standing in the rail seating in silence, just like 1000's stand in silence most weeks in the premiership.

 

I can't see it improving atmosphere but for me that's not the point.

 

It's all about choice.

 

It's crazy that fans who pay through the nose still don't have a choice to stand without hassle either from stewards or fellow fans who wish to sit.

 

It is a point though that fans at every club stand anyway even though it's against fa rules so it'll just make it safer and legal. the only potentially dangerous time at the moment is when a goal is scored or when someone goes to the bogs and rail seating will eliminate that problem. I really cannot see what the problem is. Those against the idea must plain daft not to realise it's going to come in eventually.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

15 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

Does make you wonder IF this ever happened in the top division you would just get loads of people standing in the rail seating in silence, just like 1000's stand in silence most weeks in the premiership.

 

I can't see it improving atmosphere but for me that's not the point.

If it's a designated standing area I'd bet everything I owned on it being the most atmospheric part of the ground by a distance. 

You'll still get the 'too cool to sing' types in there but if they want to stand in there who's to say they can't? 

[urban.spaceman]

Last week I was in block M1 where the away fans usually sit for the Sevilla match. Not a single person in my block sat down for the whole match. It was the best atmosphere I've ever been part of. There is definitely demand for rail seating and I can see it being a big success. Convert SK1 and I can see many other blocks wanting it too. 

[Kitchandro]

20 hours ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

I realise I might be swimming against the tide on this one but I raised my only voice (in solitary maybe) to say my piece.

 i can see no benefit in going back to standing whatsoever. I've stood on the Kop at filbert street when it was like a morgue, atmosphere comes from success and anticipation hence its great at the KP at the moment, especially on European nights.

 You won't pay less and you will probably end up with a worse view etc etc. To me is a nostalgic nonsense.

That's because people are indoctrinated to think that way, the same way they are indoctrinated to sit by all seater stadiums.

[Lovejoy]

In recent times I've stood on terraces at places like Malmo, Dortmund and Koln and anyone who say's that there isn't a difference quite simply doesn't have the relevant experience to know what they are talking about. People are on the terrace deliberately and therefore the majority contribute to the atmosphere. Yes, in Europe it helps that you can have a beer whilst watching the game, but it's the mentality that's the main thing. Seeing videos from places like Celtic Park, it looks brilliant, and the fans there have said there is a noticeable difference.

 

From a more pragmatic perspective, it also removes the stand up/sit down argument that occur every match, particularly away. We have the facilities and know-how to make it a lot safer than in times gone by.

[IrememberBobHazell]

That's a bit cheap, to say that if you don't agree with someone you aren't sufficently informed.

 I admit mine might be a minority voice, and I accept that judging by the weight of the comments elsewhere, but I wanted my voice to be noted. I wanted to say that I have been there, done it and don't want it back. To say you need to be standing to make atmosphere is, in my view, patent nonsense. You make of your situation what you can and what you want and that doesn't have to mean winding the clock bact 30 years.

 If the majority disagree and if the decision goes the other way then fair enough

[Sol thewall Bamba]

6 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

I wanted to say that I have been there, done it and don't want it back.

Sorry for picking apart your post but what rail seating arrangements have you experienced first hand out of interest? 

Edited 23 March 2017 by Sol thewall Bamba

[Goober]

6 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

That's a bit cheap, to say that if you don't agree with someone you aren't sufficently informed.

 I admit mine might be a minority voice, and I accept that judging by the weight of the comments elsewhere, but I wanted my voice to be noted. I wanted to say that I have been there, done it and don't want it back. To say you need to be standing to make atmosphere is, in my view, patent nonsense. You make of your situation what you can and what you want and that doesn't have to mean winding the clock bact 30 years.

 If the majority disagree and if the decision goes the other way then fair enough

The only parts of our ground that consistently generate atmosphere are where the people are stood, imo.

 

Re your second point too, I don't think people want a return to coin throwing, hooliganism and streams of piss running down the terrace - just a better way to accommodate the fans who want to act more boisterously. I don't think it'd be a direct return to what you saw 30 years ago

[FraserSorensen]

16 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

That's a bit cheap, to say that if you don't agree with someone you aren't sufficently informed.

 I admit mine might be a minority voice, and I accept that judging by the weight of the comments elsewhere, but I wanted my voice to be noted. I wanted to say that I have been there, done it and don't want it back. To say you need to be standing to make atmosphere is, in my view, patent nonsense. You make of your situation what you can and what you want and that doesn't have to mean winding the clock bact 30 years.

 If the majority disagree and if the decision goes the other way then fair enough

I think the main issue people may have with your posts is that if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. I can't see a situation in my lifetime where entire football stadiums are turned into safe standing. At an early stage this would just be sections. At present, you have a choice as to whether or not to sit or stand, and you choose to sit. You can still do this with the introduction of safe standing terraces. At present, those that wish to safely stand together do not have that choice. It will also prevent situations whereby at present people who want to stand are annoying those that don't, whereas if this was introduced, if you want to stand, you can feel free to do so in a designated area. Everyone wins.

[Voll Blau]

41 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

That's a bit cheap, to say that if you don't agree with someone you aren't sufficently informed.

 I admit mine might be a minority voice, and I accept that judging by the weight of the comments elsewhere, but I wanted my voice to be noted. I wanted to say that I have been there, done it and don't want it back. To say you need to be standing to make atmosphere is, in my view, patent nonsense. You make of your situation what you can and what you want and that doesn't have to mean winding the clock bact 30 years.

 If the majority disagree and if the decision goes the other way then fair enough

That comment suggests to me that you aren't sufficiently informed. The technology people are proposing wasn't available 30 years ago.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

39 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

That comment suggests to me that you aren't sufficiently informed. The technology people are proposing wasn't available 30 years ago.

But what about Hillsborough!!!11!!1!!!

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

But what about Hillsborough!!!11!!1!!!

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[yorkie1999]

If they'd had them at hillsborough, we'd still be standing now.

[AndWhat?]

7 hours ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

That's a bit cheap, to say that if you don't agree with someone you aren't sufficently informed.

 I admit mine might be a minority voice, and I accept that judging by the weight of the comments elsewhere, but I wanted my voice to be noted. I wanted to say that I have been there, done it and don't want it back. To say you need to be standing to make atmosphere is, in my view, patent nonsense. You make of your situation what you can and what you want and that doesn't have to mean winding the clock bact 30 years.

 If the majority disagree and if the decision goes the other way then fair enough

 

I wish I could meet up with you to talk about what safe standing is. I'd bet every penny I habe that if someone was to show you what it is and how it works you would understand that it's needed.

 

So much easier to convince you that way then have 20 people talking at you on a forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yorkie1999]

This standing to create an atmosphere is easily explained, go into a nightclub and everyone's sitting down, singing along to the music, is both boring and anti social. go in and everyone's up dancing and it's exciting. It's exactly the same at a football match. 

[IrememberBobHazell]

Appreciate the offer above but I am actually more informed than most give credit for. I've look into the mouth of the 'safe standing' tiger and didn't like what I saw.

 The only argument in favour, in my view, is that of civil liberties. You know, letting people do what they want. That is difficult to argue against.

 I am trying to see both sides however the end product is still the same. A mistake though is still a mistake!

[purpleronnie]

I think we may have a wind up merchant amongst us.

[IrememberBobHazell]

Honestly and genuinely no. I am absolutely 100% anti standing at football. No windups.

[Voll Blau]

36 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

Appreciate the offer above but I am actually more informed than most give credit for. I've look into the mouth of the 'safe standing' tiger and didn't like what I saw.

 The only argument in favour, in my view, is that of civil liberties. You know, letting people do what they want. That is difficult to argue against.

 I am trying to see both sides however the end product is still the same. A mistake though is still a mistake!

Perhaps you'd care to expand if you're so well informed? It seems every point you've come up with in opposition to it as a concept has been refuted by other posters so far.

[AndWhat?]

1 hour ago, IrememberBobHazell said:

Honestly and genuinely no. I am absolutely 100% anti standing at football. No windups.

 

I get where you are coming from, I too am against things for no reason.

 

I am 100% anti cheese sandwiches. No matter what anyone says they won't change my opinion.