Jon the Hat Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29628557 Labour getting their knickers in a twist already. Had Freud said clearly what he meant - which is perhaps employers should be incentivised to employ disabled people whose disability means they have lower productivity / work rate which companies will not pay when they could get an able bodied employee for the same cost - then this would not be an issue. They know that, but hey, we can work the term "Nasty party" into the speech so its all ok! I do dislike the run up to an election, and it seems to have started already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Showing again, how conservatives think towards its poorer or disabled citizens. FFS 2014, and we have morans, even voted in has Lords.Freud would have been at home in Germany 1936-45.Forget the out of context, its the thinking behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James. Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Turning this into an opportunity to bash Labour makes you as bad as them Jon. Anyway if that's what he wanted to say why didn't he say that? His remarks look very careless to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 15 October 2014 Author Share Posted 15 October 2014 Showing again, how conservatives think towards its poorer or disabled citizens. FFS 2014, and we have morans, even voted in has Lords.Freud would have been at home in Germany 1936-45.Forget the out of context, its the thinking behind it. Totally disagree. The thinking behind it is "how do we help a particular group of disabled people who are able to work but at a slower pace and who want to work into a job". If you are a business and you have the free choice of employing person A who works at full speed and person B who is can only work at half speed, your rational decision is to employ person A? If therefore we want to help those people get a job, then we need to incentivise businesses to make this an affordable alternative and level the playing field. You could argue Freud is an idiot for the way he said it, as clearly the approach is to provide grants to businesses not reduce the minimum wage, and referring to disable people as not worth the monimum wage is an insensitive way of putting it, but I think it is perfectly clear he meant from a productivity perspective not from a personal perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 15 October 2014 Author Share Posted 15 October 2014 Turning this into an opportunity to bash Labour makes you as bad as them Jon. Anyway if that's what he wanted to say why didn't he say that? His remarks look very careless to me. Definately careless. I dislike both sides talking shit, this just pissed me off in PMQs. I am really starting to dislike Ed Milliband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 15 October 2014 Author Share Posted 15 October 2014 Note to self: Dont be as ****ing annoyingly proTory as last election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Note to self: Dont be as ****ing annoyingly proTory as last election Release your inner libertarian socialist and mash up da Tories, Jon! ....Or weren't you considering going quite that far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Wasn't this said about 2 weeks ago? They've saved this up till now to distract from the good economic news out today. It's just politics, the tories would have done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADK Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 The guy comes across as clueless and has a shady past, no surprise labour would want to shine the spotlight on him and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisfox Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Two words. Vote UKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Only thing that was the problem is clearly the wording, gives the morons an easy stick to bash the Tories with though. Think he'll struggle to hang onto his job after this, just the sort of comment you simply can't say in public these days whether it's merited or not. Thought this was quite a good measured response from a disabled blogger at Ouch. Unemployment for disabled people has remained stubbornly around 50% for over twenty years despite schemes and incentives. It's perhaps understandable that Lord Freud might want to think outside the box to allow desperate disabled people to shine and get a real job with a real (if low) wage which for some may be preferable to remaining at home, isolated, looking forward to a life on benefits. If disabled people could charge less for their time, they might get a job more easily... but it could also send out unhelpful messages and devalue all disabled workers. Suggesting that disabled people may not be worthy of what's deemed to be a "minimum" wage is seen by campaigners as unacceptable, as Conservative MP Philip Davies found to his cost in 2011. Equal rights, equal pay are bound up in law and feel right and just. Lord Freud sounds like he was raising an important debate, but has muddied the waters with what sounds like disrespectful language. And as a minister responsible for controversial welfare reforms, campaigners have been quick to claim it is a troubling insight into how he thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Showing again, how conservatives think towards its poorer or disabled citizens. FFS 2014, and we have morans, even voted in has Lords.Freud would have been at home in Germany 1936-45.Forget the out of context, its the thinking behind it. Pretty offensive comparison. I;m sure the disabled people of Germany at that time would have jumped at the chance to gain employment even on a lower wage rather than take the compulsory alternative on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Pretty offensive comparison. I;m sure the disabled people of Germany at that time would have jumped at the chance to gain employment even on a lower wage rather than take the compulsary alternative on offer. very insensitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavrentis Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Vote UKIP, get UKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADK Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Good reason not to vote UKIP then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Vote UKIP, get UKIP Voe UKIP, get a free bottle of Old Spice deodorant spray worth 3.99* *terms and conditions may apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Shall we come up with some catchy election slogans? "If you want a peadophile for a neighbour, vote Labour" "Be unclean, vote Green" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 UKIP - because Pilsner is just fizzy piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisNedry Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Won't be voting Conservative this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Won't be voting Conservative this time. SWP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Totally disagree. The thinking behind it is "how do we help a particular group of disabled people who are able to work but at a slower pace and who want to work into a job". If you are a business and you have the free choice of employing person A who works at full speed and person B who is can only work at half speed, your rational decision is to employ person A? If therefore we want to help those people get a job, then we need to incentivise businesses to make this an affordable alternative and level the playing field. You could argue Freud is an idiot for the way he said it, as clearly the approach is to provide grants to businesses not reduce the minimum wage, and referring to disable people as not worth the monimum wage is an insensitive way of putting it, but I pthink it is perfectly clear he meant from a productivity perspective not from a personal perspective. Where does speed or pace come into a job valuation.How many jobs would involve the distinction or difference. F1. Floor-runners.perhaps Production in factories, or offices???? Has mentioned this is 2014 not 1814, Disabled can work m/cs just as quick.Another person who hasnt thought things out it seems. There are productive workshops just for the disabled, for those who do or would have difficulties, in some of the more open employment markets.There are various ranges of Disabilities, so capabilities of completing a normal days work is always taken into consideration. Plus many able mental/bodied people are just as slow, with lazy tendencies,unwarranted smoking and tea breaks. whipping died out with the slaves. Love to know where A and B rational issues, are relevant enough to save millions or even 100k of pounds. Not a ground any competent Lord or MP should be covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 This has to be the German 'Kein Dusdell'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Pretty offensive comparison. I;m sure the disabled people of Germany at that time would have jumped at the chance to gain employment even on a lower wage rather than take the compulsory alternative on offer. Offensive... how bloody offensive do you have to be.Do we have grades now.How far are YOU allowing MPS to go.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 Shall we come up with some catchy election slogans? "If you want a peadophile for a neighbour, vote Labour" "Be unclean, vote Green" "Vote UKIP and get done up like a kipper" "You kip if you want to, UKIP is for turning....the clock back to 1830" "Take a hosepipe to the garage, it's Nigel Farage!" "Go to the pub with Farage and wake up in rehab" "The new energy solution: drill into the Cameron oil slick" "Vote Lib Dem to get rid of tuition fees" "The Tories: cleaning up Labour's mess - with napalm and manure" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 15 October 2014 Share Posted 15 October 2014 "Take a hosepipe to the garage, it's Nigel Farage!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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