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Posts posted by leicsmac

  1. 4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

    What the hell


    But but but...we don't know the context behind these quick cut clips! I mean, they could have been provoked, and they have a very tough job, and some other protestors looted so it makes it justified and...

  2. 28 minutes ago, Stadt said:

    Did the Brexit thread get locked? Was thinking the other day that rather than immediately trying to negotiate a deal with the US, agreeing a deal with Norway and Iceland would probably be a better idea. We’re obviously a larger economy, we’re Norway’s biggest export partner and Iceland’s 3rd and I’m not sure about Iceland but Norway is quite Anglophilic 

    Well, Norway gave us Roald Dahl and by and large they seem to be great people too so that's a good idea IMO. :D

  3. 2 minutes ago, Guesty said:

    Bit dangerous for the White House to tweet this. Trump doing it is one thing. Might be nuanced but Trump's twitter represents himself; that represents the nation. Shooting should only really be to protect life. I know he likes to be divisive; but they're playing with fire here.


    There are already videos showing unrest is spreading to other cities.

    It is dangerous, but in a perverse way it's good that the administration can no longer really use "it's just his personal opinion, nothing to do with policy" as a figleaf.


    Masks off, I believe they call it.

    • Like 3

  4. 4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

    So I saw earlier. Poor old bugger is gonna burst a vessel when he wakes up and see 's that

    TBH I hope this fight goes on for a while, because the more he pushes for authoritarian measures like stymieing social media in this way, the more he might alienate some parts of his voter base.

    • Like 2

  5. 7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

    I saw a post on reddit today whilst browsing through randomly from some gun nut sub. Actually made a fairly compelling point between the 2 situations. I know barely anything about murica in general so took it with a pinch of salt, but he seemed to believe that the reason the armed to the teeth bunch were allowed to go about their ranting was because... Well they were armed to the teeth. 


    Obviously the only way to prove such a theory would be to send the other group out armed to the teeth and hope it doesn't descend into the wild west... :mellow:

    I've actually seen arguments in favour of this in places too - and while I'm not sure at all about how such a thing would end up I can see why people would find the argument compelling. An intriguing part of it all is that the last time black people armed themselves for the purpose of protest en masse (Black Panthers) the response of the establishment was to draft and pass gun control legislation as quickly as they could. How un-American.



    3 minutes ago, Guesty said:

    Haven't paid proper attention to this convo and couldn't get that link to work properly - so if I've missunderstood sorry. But if you want a corrobrative reports about the looting this is a journalist's twitter feed who was on the ground. He looks legit, but I haven't researched him. His whole feed was quite eye opening (not just this tweet or thread). All the big fires, looks like someone hit him at one point. There's videos and pictures. 



    Thank you for the additional work!


    It does look pretty damn ugly - bad business all round. That being said (and maybe this is whataboutery, but hey) but a single person with a pen/paper/computer screen can be much more successful at looting - legally - than a thousand protestors ever could be.

  6. 5 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

    You don't seem to get that Trump was stating an opinion, not fact.

    Just like every other Twitter user.


    Twitter themselves say that as long as you don't target an individual repeatedly, this is just fine and everyone's entitled to their opinion.


    It's not as if Twitter aren't innocent in all of this: They have a very odd way of moderating tweets, and tend to allow more leeway on the left than on the right (I'm not talking about extremist views here).

    As somebody else once said: If Twitter disappeared overnight, the world would be a better place. Twitter is toxic, Twitter is an absolute trash heap of people swinging their useless opinions around.


    As for centralized voting, it's not perfect, sure. There's voting suppression, as demonstrated in 2016 in California:


    I just find the timing rather odd now. I'm all up for a thorough voting system reform in the US - right after the elections.

    You don't get there with a hasty decision within less than six months (before November 2020).

    I entirely get that Trump was stating an opinion...but seeing as he blatantly failed to qualify his remark as such, there isn't an awful lot of difference between "opinion" and "fact" to many of those who follow him - which of course he's well aware of. Dog-whistle, I believe it is called - puts across a message whilst maintaining a veneer of deniability in a way...well, in the way you've exactly described here.


    I do actually agree that Twitter as a platform can be utterly toxic, but then at the same time such platforms tend to be only as good or as bad as the people that use them - just like any other technological application.


    WRT voter suppression, I have but one question; why wait until such tactics can be used in a key election before addressing it? "There's not enough time" doesn't seem good enough to me when the democratic process itself is being subverted like this.



    2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

    You want proof of looting?


    Also, check Andy Ngo's Twitter.


    From your statement, I gather that you claim that the increase in polarization (certainly done by the president, the media and both major US political parties alike), would negatively influence the population (or certain minorities), thus leading to more violence and/or criminal offenses.

    And that's definitely not the case, especially given the fact that crime rates are going down whilst the population keeps increasing. Which, in this context, is nothing but positive.


    What "groups of protesters" are you referring to?

    Fair enough, I'd like a corroborative source but that article seems detailed enough - as for Mr Ngo, perhaps I wasn't clear, I said reliable sources (as in ones that probably don't have their own axe to grind and the means to do so.) AS I said in the original post, I just hope this doesn't get uglier and the officers involved answer in full for what they did.


    I'm still not sure how we got into crime stats in this particular gish gallop but I'll answer anyway: polarisation only results in increased crime statistics when people act on that polarisation and (more pertinently) it is recorded by a relevant authority. But that is a whole 'nother discussion.


    By the last line, I mean:








    But yes, I'm sure they were all very law-abiding (even when flouting lockdown regs) and so thoroughly deserving of kid gloves rather than the treatment the protestors got yesterday.

  7. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52821304


    I wonder what Twitter will do here?


    On the one hand, stopping pushing for impartiality and thus going after Toupee45 would be bad PR after the effort they have put into it all. On the other, this kind of controversy means lots more clicks, which means more money, so letting the man have free reign must appeal too.


    Regarding the topic itself - Twitter is a private platform which means any guarantee of absolutely "free speech" is ridiculous, and Trump said - very clearly - that mail-in ballots will (not may) lead to voter fraud. The latter ("may") is perhaps true, the former ("will") is not and is blatant deliberately phrased misinformation and Twitter were right to label it as such.


    NB. Centralised voting, while theoretically ideal in terms of preventing fraud, is easier to suppress via limiting access in terms of transport, valid ID and thus overall availability - especially in a country with size and wealth disparity like the US.


  8. 9 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

    If the polarization were such an issue (and I do believe the US media play a big part as an often despicable third party with their sensationalist and selective take on issues), then how come US crime rates have decreased lately?


    Crime rates since 2017 have gone down each year (with the odd exception in the report on 2017).


    All of that whilst the US population keeps increasing, it rose by three million in between 2017 and 2019.

    As for the Yahoo UK report, just google it ("Minneapolis, looting").



    Maybe this one works:


    "Some reports of vandalism and looting", that are unsubstantiated. Fair enough - it's certainly possible, but personally I'm going to wait for more information on this one before deciding either way.


    What does crime rate have to do directly and solely with increased polarisation? Obvious "gish gallop" is obvious, let's not go down that road.


    I stand by what I said in that there is a massive double standard in the way two different groups of protestors have been treated based on their skin colour as opposed to their behaviour.

  9. 2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:



    On a sidenote, I think many of the links you post in politics threads aren't political per se, and I do hope you're not using socio-economic issues in the US as a mean to imply it has something to do with the current legislation.

    Now that'd be clinging onto straws.

    Hmmm...due to some kind of cookie anomaly, I can't view that Yahoo site. If you copy and paste the text I'll have a look.


    WRT the second sentence, I think that the current and past socioeconomic situation in the US is inextricably political, seeing as it is political decisions throughout society that result in it being in the way it is. This current administration doesn't bear full responsibility for things being the way they are - the story goes back far longer than that - but given the polarisation that currently exists between various factions in the US I don't think they're helping make it much better.

    • Like 1

  10. 1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

    Two wrongs:

    a) Excessive police force while apprehending a suspect.

    b) Rioting, breaking & entering and looting. People had a field day disguising themselves with masks. I thought mass gatherings were still not allowed, even in the US?

    I thought they were too - but evidently it depends on where you are, who you are and the Wisconsin tooled-up-with-assualt-rifle lockdown protestors didn't seem to mind; they didn't get the long handle despite being armed to the teeth.


    Is there any actual evidence for the breaking, entering and looting part wrt civilian buildings or should I run and get some more straw?

  11. 8 minutes ago, StanSP said:

    A lot of double standards coming out of this.


    They protest the death of a black man. Get treated in return with tear gas and attacks. 


    In other states, (mainly white?) citizens storm a government office and there's no such force shown in return. 




    You see Stan, there are "protesting violent thugs" and then there are "concerned citizens" who also happen to be "very fine people". As such, they need to be treated differently...



    • Like 1

  12. 3 minutes ago, Line-X said:

    Very optimistic imo. It makes you realise how remarkable the Apollo programme actually was to achieve Kennedy's aim of "landing a man on the moon by the end of the decade" - particularly after the setback of Apollo 1. 


    The chances of a scrub today are very high - because it's not just the conditions around the Cape that need to be risk assessed - but downrange - along the entire launch corridor in the event of the abort scenarios. 





    It is optimistic - but then the Apollo Program itself showed that if the will and resources are there, then such targets can be met.


    It is time - long past time - that humanity began taking manned spaceflight more seriously again and set serious targets for it that were then met.

  13. Speaking purely selfishly I'm hoping that they do scrub and go again at the weekend because I can see it live then rather than having to wake up at an unearthly hour on a work day it watch a recording later. Either way, it's exciting times!


    Up until I looked more closely I had no idea that with the current Artemis project a return to the Moon is being targeted for 2024 - that would be amazing if it were to happen.

  14. 36 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

    I believe he edited the blog to include some points previously referenced via links?  Still a bit of a prat.

    I'd be inclined to think there was a bit more to it than that, but of course we'll likely never know either way.


    I'm trying to be as impartial as I can when I say that faux expertise is the last thing any element of any government needs anywhere on this matter right now.

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