Depression

[stripeyfox]

13 hours ago, cambridgefox said:

Right all.

Please take this the right way and my last intention is to upset anyone in what is in a weird way a part of the forum to help,share and vent feelings.

i even PB Izzy for his thoughts before posting.

 

Last week a friend of mine got home from work as normal,saw his girlfriends work on the table and the back door open.He went into the garden to see his girlfriend hanging.Its been absolutely horrific,I was one of the first to know and many hours have been spent talking about it.

This is the strange thing and the bit I want to get across.He didn’t realise she had those dark thoughts.

 

Please,please if you are feeling in a really dark place I urge you to talk to someone,share on here.There are some fantastic people on here who care.

The aftermath of what has happened is horrendous.

 

Apologies if this is too much.

This is terrible and thoughts go out to your friend. You story took me back some twenty odd years when we arrived for work one day and one of our colleagues wasn't there. Nothing particularly unusual about that - he was very much the stereotypical "life and soul" of the group, like most of us - in his mid twenties and seemingly "happy". We assumed he probably got a hangover or something. At lunchtime, one of the lads went out get some food and said he'd call in on him (he only lived a few minutes walk away). After knocking the door and getting no response, he walked round the back to find our mate hanging. 

 

It was a terrible shock to us - it emerged later he'd taken his own life over a seemingly minor relationship issue, although I guess it was probably more complicated than that. 

 

Your story took me back all those years and it seems even more of a waste when thinking how different it might have been if he'd been able to reach out and get some help.

 

 

[CarbonVirtine]

13 hours ago, cambridgefox said:

He went into the garden to see his girlfriend hanging.

That's horrific. I cannot even begin to imagine what that must be like to see and process. I wouldn't be at all surprised if sensory overload and numbness has prevented all other forms of  reaction. As you've said cf, you/someone needs to stay close to him.

 

When I've contemplated killing myself (that is, methods and locations), I do have concerns for the person that finds me and what state I might be in. I really don't want to cause that kind of distress. I would certainly try and spare a loved one from it, though clearly it'd be traumatising for anyone. I do wonder though if that's almost an excuse. Just some pseudo-caring reason I give for not doing it. I think if you got to the point of actually wanting to see it through, you probably more-or-less don't care - either you feel that the pain of your own existence outweighs the distress you might cause, or you've become so self-centred (and I don't mean that in a nasty way) that you don't even think about the effects on others.

[lifted*fox]

thoughts of suicide are weird tbh. it's something that crosses my mind sometimes - on bad days. you might absentmindedly find yourself contemplating the manner in which it could happen. 

 

it upsets me massively that my mind will go somewhere that dark often when just driving along or in the shower. 

 

my dad suffered with severe depression and he talked of it a couple of times and back then I was like 'pack it in dad, don't speak like that' but I sometimes see where the thought-process comes from these days.

 

I personally think that depending on the day and the situation there's only a VERY fine line between thinking about it and doing it.  

 

personally I don't think I'd ever do it - I'm too aware of the fact that you absolutely 100% can make some huge changes in your life to put yourself in a totally different mind-set / space & time.

 

it seems so easy to say it but I'd remove myself from the situation in another way - no matter how much it'd hurt my family, my wife, my friends - I'd personally make drastic changes first and foremost - leave my job, leave my wife, sell my house, move country, volunteer somewhere where there's nothing to do but help other people, etc.

 

depression for me is a feeling of being lost, of not knowing purpose, of feeling the pressure of society on your shoulders - you should be doing this, you should be doing that. money, success, money, stuff, things. 

 

if I ever feel like it's all too much then I'm just going to leave it all behind and try again elsewhere. 

 

if that doesn't work... who knows. 

[CarbonVirtine]

4 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

it upsets me massively that my mind will go somewhere that dark often when just driving along or in the shower. 

You oughtn't let it upset you. Let your mind go wherever it wants, follow it and observe - but don't judge. As they say 'it's all in the mind'. For me, thinking is a playground and I almost dare myself to think outrageous thoughts. I'm not upset by them but I do wonder wtf they come from sometimes! You can think anything in the safety of your own head, just be careful what you act upon... which leads me too...

 

Quote

I personally think that depending on the day and the situation there's only a VERY fine line between thinking about it and doing it.  

 I really don't know on that one. It is chilling to think that it's a plan that only needs to be put into action. Sometimes, I'm really not sure what stops me - I can have an almost cold logic about it.

 

I too ponder the 'remove myself from my situation' alternatives; another life (Reggie Perrin kind of thing) but I also suspect that my thoughts would follow me anywhere I went. If I want to change my thinking/thoughts then I ought tackle that where I am. Unless, of course, where you are is causing those thoughts etc, there's definitely a lot to be said for reducing the stress in your life rather than attempting to handle it. 

 

I dunno, suicide is just something that sometimes seems inevitable, unavoidable - as I say, a cold logic. It's a philosophical debate innit? The absurdness of life and the rationality of suicide. I think the reality of it is, for me anyway, one of the things that stops me crossing that line. It is all very do-able.

[lifted*fox]

interesting reply man, for sure.

 

i just typed out a massive reply but deleted it, it sounded pretty dumb tbh. 

 

i'll try again later.  

[Izzy]

16 minutes ago, CarbonVirtine said:

You oughtn't let it upset you. Let your mind go wherever it wants, follow it and observe - but don't judge. As they say 'it's all in the mind'. For me, thinking is a playground and I almost dare myself to think outrageous thoughts. I'm not upset by them but I do wonder wtf they come from sometimes! You can think anything in the safety of your own head, just be careful what you act upon... 

Couldn’t have put it better myself - love that paragraph mate.

 

And yes, it’s a mystery where our thoughts come - all 40,000 of them a day on average.

 

Some psychologists would suggest that we’re all just a conduit for thinking anyway and that those thoughts are not ours in the first place.

 

They just pass through us and we decide which ones to pay conscious attention to and act upon. For me there’s a bigger universal ‘mind’ at play but that’s for a different thread 

[Buce]

28 minutes ago, CarbonVirtine said:

You oughtn't let it upset you. Let your mind go wherever it wants, follow it and observe - but don't judge. As they say 'it's all in the mind'. For me, thinking is a playground and I almost dare myself to think outrageous thoughts. I'm not upset by them but I do wonder wtf they come from sometimes! You can think anything in the safety of your own head, just be careful what you act upon... which leads me too...

 

 I really don't know on that one. It is chilling to think that it's a plan that only needs to be put into action. Sometimes, I'm really not sure what stops me - I can have an almost cold logic about it.

 

I too ponder the 'remove myself from my situation' alternatives; another life (Reggie Perrin kind of thing) but I also suspect that my thoughts would follow me anywhere I went. If I want to change my thinking/thoughts then I ought tackle that where I am. Unless, of course, where you are is causing those thoughts etc, there's definitely a lot to be said for reducing the stress in your life rather than attempting to handle it. 

 

I dunno, suicide is just something that sometimes seems inevitable, unavoidable - as I say, a cold logic. It's a philosophical debate innit? The absurdness of life and the rationality of suicide. I think the reality of it is, for me anyway, one of the things that stops me crossing that line. It is all very do-able.

5

 

You sound like someone who would enjoy psychedelics.

[CarbonVirtine]

...or someone that doesn't need them! 

[gw_leics772]

Just now, Buce said:

 

You sound like someone who would enjoy psychedelics.

I genuinely believe that is one of the main reasons for the sheer amount of people suffering from depression and/or anxiety, in our/my generation. 

 

The older generation when I was a kid were the war generation (grandma's and grandad, I'm nearly 40) very polite, ballroom dancing and courting era.

 

That was how I saw old people but there was no way my generation would be like that. Prodigy era, music for the jilted generation - I think of it as the ****ed up generation. 

 

Even though my depression is definitely hereditary, I think it is a symptom of the widespread chemical experimentation and the answer to my early life predictions coming through. 

 

Not so much not as tough as the generations before, more that we have battered our own minds and bodies more than those that went before.

 

Interested to know if others agree, or not.

[lifted*fox]

9 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

 Interested to know if others agree, or not.

 

i disagree, but that's in my experience. 

 

mushrooms and MDMA (possibly research chemicals like 2C-B) helped to open my mind up as a young person. I was pretty introverted up until 15 when I started playing about with a few chemicals.

 

I opened up and made a shit ton of friends, had a shit load of great experiences and it unlocked parts of my conscience that weren't known to me before. 

 

I've made the most of those experiences - it could be argued that all of my successes that followed were thanks to my ability to find the extrovert within myself from there on. 

 

it could be argued that perhaps I was never supposed to open up those parts of my brain but I wholly believe (as science is starting to prove) that drugs like MDMA and mushrooms can be used for therapy to cure childhood traumas, anxiety and depression. there are numerous studies starting to show positive results. 

 

with regards to the older generations - depression, suicide, etc. was not something that was talked about. arguably it's only recent times where it's been seen as OK to talk about your mental health problems, especially as men. in the past pride, fear of being looked down upon / losing your job, etc. have all suppressed people's ability to talk openly about the struggle. 

 

the struggle has always been there and it always will be. it's how well we help each other deal with it as a society that will matter going forwards.

 

times are harder for young people now - expectations are high, we're not involved in any wars apart from the war to keep up with our neighbours, feed a family, buy a home. it's all manufactured material problems. we need to wake up and realise that material things don't matter if your happiness is at risk to attain it. 

 

i'm about to leave my job, my well paid job with many benefits to spend some time out of work, working on my house, working on my fitness - both mental and physical and to try and put some achievable targets in front of myself to remind myself that I can achieve things and that work and money isn't everything. I'm absolutely ****ing wracked with fear at the moment but I know I'll land on my feet. 

 

ugh. 

[Buce]

20 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

I genuinely believe that is one of the main reasons for the sheer amount of people suffering from depression and/or anxiety, in our/my generation. 

 

The older generation when I was a kid were the war generation (grandma's and grandad, I'm nearly 40) very polite, ballroom dancing and courting era.

 

That was how I saw old people but there was no way my generation would be like that. Prodigy era, music for the jilted generation - I think of it as the ****ed up generation. 

 

Even though my depression is definitely hereditary, I think it is a symptom of the widespread chemical experimentation and the answer to my early life predictions coming through. 

 

Not so much not as tough as the generations before, more that we have battered our own minds and bodies more than those that went before.

 

Interested to know if others agree, or not.

 

I completely disagree.

 

If you're genuinely interested in my reasoning, I'll reply later when I have more time.

 

Edit. lifted*fox has pretty much summed it up.

Edited 26 June 2018 by Buce

[Costock_Fox]

15 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

i disagree, but that's in my experience. 

 

mushrooms and MDMA (possibly research chemicals like 2C-B) helped to open my mind up as a young person. I was pretty introverted up until 15 when I started playing about with a few chemicals.

 

I opened up and made a shit ton of friends, had a shit load of great experiences and it unlocked parts of my conscience that weren't known to me before. 

 

I've made the most of those experiences - it could be argued that all of my successes that followed were thanks to my ability to find the extrovert within myself from there on. 

 

it could be argued that perhaps I was never supposed to open up those parts of my brain but I wholly believe (as science is starting to prove) that drugs like MDMA and mushrooms can be used for therapy to cure childhood traumas, anxiety and depression. there are numerous studies starting to show positive results. 

 

with regards to the older generations - depression, suicide, etc. was not something that was talked about. arguably it's only recent times where it's been seen as OK to talk about your mental health problems, especially as men. in the past pride, fear of being looked down upon / losing your job, etc. have all suppressed people's ability to talk openly about the struggle. 

 

the struggle has always been there and it always will be. it's how well we help each other deal with it as a society that will matter going forwards.

 

times are harder for young people now - expectations are high, we're not involved in any wars apart from the war to keep up with our neighbours, feed a family, buy a home. it's all manufactured material problems. we need to wake up and realise that material things don't matter if your happiness is at risk to attain it. 

 

i'm about to leave my job, my well paid job with many benefits to spend some time out of work, working on my house, working on my fitness - both mental and physical and to try and put some achievable targets in front of myself to remind myself that I can achieve things and that work and money isn't everything. I'm absolutely ****ing wracked with fear at the moment but I know I'll land on my feet. 

 

ugh. 

It’s funny that you mention magic mushrooms unlocking part of your brain because the only part of brain it opened when I tried them was the part where you try to eat frozen pizza.

[lifted*fox]

2 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

It’s funny that you mention magic mushrooms unlocking part of your brain because the only part of brain it opened when I tried them was the part where you try to eat frozen pizza.

 

 

I once thought a giant tortoise was a foot-rest and proceeded to rest my feet upon it for quite some time.

 

It shaped my life. 

Edited 26 June 2018 by lifted*fox

[Costock_Fox]

7 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

 

I once thought a giant tortoise was a foot-rest and proceeded to rest my feet upon it for quite some time.

 

It shaped my life. 

 

Haha the only other part I remember is watching 51st state and the opening scene went in reverse. Absolute head****  

[Jon the Hat]

9 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

 

I once thought a giant tortoise was a foot-rest and proceeded to rest my feet upon it for quite some time.

 

It shaped my life. 

 

As long as it didn’t shape the tortoise

[lifted*fox]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

As long as it didn’t shape the tortoise

 

I still to this day can't believe my friend had a giant tortoise in his house and I didn't know about it. 

 

it was possibly the same night I discussed the intricacies of the universe in the kitchen with his mum at 3am in the morning. she'd only popped down for a glass of water and found me on a different planet and up for a lengthy discussion.

 

had a bit of a reputation for speaking to mates parents when a bit out of it. I always thought I handled myself quite well but later reports from said parents would appear to suggest otherwise. 

[gw_leics772]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

I completely disagree.

 

If you're genuinely interested in my reasoning, I'll reply later when I have more time.

 

Edit. lifted*fox has pretty much summed it up.

 

Genuinely interested.

[gw_leics772]

1 hour ago, lifted*fox said:

 

i disagree, but that's in my experience. 

 

mushrooms and MDMA (possibly research chemicals like 2C-B) helped to open my mind up as a young person. I was pretty introverted up until 15 when I started playing about with a few chemicals.

 

I opened up and made a shit ton of friends, had a shit load of great experiences and it unlocked parts of my conscience that weren't known to me before. 

 

I've made the most of those experiences - it could be argued that all of my successes that followed were thanks to my ability to find the extrovert within myself from there on. 

 

it could be argued that perhaps I was never supposed to open up those parts of my brain but I wholly believe (as science is starting to prove) that drugs like MDMA and mushrooms can be used for therapy to cure childhood traumas, anxiety and depression. there are numerous studies starting to show positive results. 

 

with regards to the older generations - depression, suicide, etc. was not something that was talked about. arguably it's only recent times where it's been seen as OK to talk about your mental health problems, especially as men. in the past pride, fear of being looked down upon / losing your joseb, etc. have all suppressed people's ability to talk openly about the struggle. 

 

the struggle has always been there and it always will be. it's how well we help each other deal with it as a society that will matter going forwards.

 

times are harder for young people now - expectations are high, we're not involved in any wars apart from the war to keep up with our neighbours, feed a family, buy a home. it's all manufactured material problems. we need to wake up and realise that material things don't matter if your happiness is at risk to attain it. 

 

i'm about to leave my job, my well paid job with many benefits to spend some time out of work, working on my house, working on my fitness - both mental and physical and to try and put some achievable targets in front of myself to remind myself that I can achieve things and that work and money isn't everything. I'm absolutely ****ing wracked with fear at the moment but I know I'll land on my feet. 

 

ugh. 

I think it's clear from your grammar and content that you are of above average iq, and have partaken in a 'sensible' way.

 

I can certainly see where you are coming from but for me it was my '**** head' time, and I was not even in the top 10% in terms of quantity consumed.

 

But the people I know were far less experimenting and instead well into abusing it, with bells on.

 

I stand by my thoughts from my own experience and have had enough discussions with said people to feel that it has merit.

 

There are of course environmental factors but I guess what I'm saying is the people here are not the same kind of random sample that I have experienced. I also note the drug of choice was speed for most of that time. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be able to say whether that makes a difference.

 

I actually put my own experience with drugs a bit more like yours, as mine has been more than proven as hereditary as well as some of my other health issues. For example the first time I was offered an e, before I'd said yes I found 6 of the 30 of us who frequented our local, to be dealing and trying to be the one who got my money. Naive me never had a clue. Or the time when between being offered and managing to speak, the price had halved.

 

(Don't get me wrong, there are some of my more sensible friends who are surprised I've lived this long)

 

Proof reading this I now wonder if I grew up in the first half of the film trainspotting ? but I can only talk from my experience.

 

Most of the people I'm thinking of heavily abused it and are the same who suffer now. They then "grew up and moved on" unlike me who felt there was a time and a place. I finally had accept it when offered  liquid mdma on a rare boys night out Only to "Ask Frank" and be told with my high blood pressure there was a very good chance I would die. 

 

Also, out of interest, how old are you guys who disagree. The reason I ask is that I followed my older brother but my younger brother was in a far more sensible group of mates, and although I guess everyone thinks their era was one of a kind, I do think there is some truth in that things calmed down towards the end of the 90s. I think I remember a bit of a drought round our way.

 

It seems that although the worst are probably worse than ever in terms of drugs etc, I think the social media era breeds a nicer general population, with more understanding and responsibility for their actions. (E.g. when Facebook came along school bullies wanted to he my friend, and I guess the younger ones want to be liked more, whereas we had no such 'worries'

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, gw_leics772 said:

Genuinely interested.

 

Well, as I said, lifted*fox has said pretty much everything I was going to say.

 

More personally, as a young man, I experienced the same existential crisis that lifted*fox is having now, and my response was pretty much the same - I quit my job, sold everything I had to sell, and took off travelling. During the next few years, I was introduced to a variety of psychedelics - LSD, Peyote, Psilocybin, Salvia - and various strains of marijuana. I know it's a hippy cliché but they really did expand my mind. I gained an understanding of who I am, and the self-confidence to do things that I know I would never have done without exposure to the drugs. I never had a bad trip - I don't accept that there is any such thing - just a series of experiences that increased my self-awareness. I never became a regular or habitual user, though weed has remained part of my life to this day (although I'm on a self-imposed abstinence atm).

 

I accept that there is a dividing line between drug abuse and drug use - I was never an abuser - and you might have noted that everything I did was a natural substance, not a manufactured chemical, which is possibly significant.

[HighPeakFox]

I'm sorry to interrupt a really very interesting conversation, but I thought I'd let you know that the person I thought was calling me a c**t, wasn't doing so at all. In actual fact he was indulging in friendly banter that was, I'm afraid to say, too subtle and intelligent to get through to my limited mind

 

He sent me messages with great kindness and humility to explain, I felt rather humbled myself receiving them. 

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'm sorry to interrupt a really very interesting conversation, but I thought I'd let you know that the person I thought was calling me a c**t, wasn't doing so at all. In actual fact he was indulging in friendly banter that was, I'm afraid to say, too subtle and intelligent to get through to my limited mind

 

He sent me messages with great kindness and humility to explain, I felt rather humbled myself receiving them. 

 

There's a lesson there somewhere.

[Finnegan]

16 hours ago, gw_leics772 said:

I genuinely believe that is one of the main reasons for the sheer amount of people suffering from depression and/or anxiety, in our/my generation. 

 

The older generation when I was a kid were the war generation (grandma's and grandad, I'm nearly 40) very polite, ballroom dancing and courting era.

 

That was how I saw old people but there was no way my generation would be like that. Prodigy era, music for the jilted generation - I think of it as the ****ed up generation. 

 

Even though my depression is definitely hereditary, I think it is a symptom of the widespread chemical experimentation and the answer to my early life predictions coming through. 

 

Not so much not as tough as the generations before, more that we have battered our own minds and bodies more than those that went before.

 

Interested to know if others agree, or not.

 

Let me state clearly, I'm not qualified to tell you where your depression comes from or what caused/causes it. 

 

That said, I just think your generation is one of the first to start to acknowledge mental health as a genuine issue. My grandparents (wartime folk) would never acknowledge being depressed or in any other way mentally ill. 

 

I do think it's generational but I think it's the culture of acceptance infinitely more than any substance use. 

 

Large swathes of my generation and younger generations are starting to out themselves as depressed, I don't think it's anything to do with us being more predisposed to depression for whatever cultural, chemical or environmental factors I just think it's becoming more acceptable to talk about it and get help. 

 

 

Oh and on an unrelated note, as someone that's attempted suicide - miss me with that guilt trip, "selfish", think of those you leave behind shit. I know people sometimes mean well (and sometimes don't) when they come out with it but honestly, **** off. 

 

The pain you've got to be in to be honestly considering suicide is just astronomical, completely crushing emotional agony. Anyone wanting relief from that doesn't need you adding to it by making them feel like awful human beings for wanting to end their own pain. It's their ****ing life. 

 

You should definitely reach out, definitely offer comfort and support, definitely try and talk them down and around through any means necessary, they really do need help and quite urgently. But really naff off with the "think of everyone else" guilt trip, it massively grinds my gears. 

 

 

(I'm not particularly offended, mind, Cambridge and I'm really sorry for your friend's loss, I don't mean to attack you specifically - I'm well aware your heart is in the right place and I wouldn't want to gatekeep this thread or deter anyone from offering their opinion, I'm just giving an opposite perspective from my side of the track.)

Edited 27 June 2018 by Finnegan

[gw_leics772]

In an attempt to bring this thread back so people feel comfortable talking again, I think @Finnegan came across quite harsh under the circumstances leading up to the comments with that harshest of reminders how bad it can be.  I promise you I'm not judging though. I think it is a stark reminder to people who haven't been there, that the 'normal'  advice doesn't work and comes across like the usual platitudes.

I don't want it to come across as an elitist club but can definitely understand as I have wished endless times to feel 'normal' but advice from the lucky ones never works for me, and evidently also for Finnegan.

For me it is a stark reminder that,although I, and many others here offering help and advice, have been through it and come Out the other side, or in my case continue to go through it but am currently in a reasonably good place compared to how low I have been, that there are still people reading this who are possibly at their lowest.

We also need to somehow be mindful that the previous comments came from someone really trying to understand having witnessed the worst case scenario first hand.

 

Anyway, thanks for the input on my ramblings Finnegan. Out of interest, how old are you? For context reasons surrounding my theory.

For anyone who has been following this thread for a while, my massive test is still ongoing. I have had to put my own advice to the test. Definitely easier said than done.

I had to grow a pair big time and act with massive confidence in my big real problem, but knowing that it will take time to sort, I've kept myself busy and concentrated on myself. Still feel in a good place (after a few days of keeping myself to myself so I don't so anything wrong - It's harder to do something wrong if you don't so much at all) but scared that I have no control over my moods and they will continue to be dictated far too heavily by other people's actions.

Apprehensive but also hopeful that I can deal with the fallout and still feel good. Most on here know that overthinking is one of the biggest problems, so tried to make it constructive and have a plan of sorts.

 

Self counselling session over. Good night one and all.

Edited 27 June 2018 by gw_leics772

[Crinklyfox]

To add to the recent theme - I've never attempted suicide but have been low enough to think about it.  For me the 'guilt trip' was very real.  The biggest disincentive I had to suicide was the fact that I had a family and I couldn't bear the thought of abandoning them and have my children think 'Daddy didn't want to look after us any more' at my funeral.  That made me feel even more desperate than before as one way out of my pain had been blocked but I eventually got through it.  Without a family I may not have done

[Finnegan]

32.