Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
Pinkman

Depression

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Costock_Fox said:

Your sister looks a bit rough mate lol. Looks grim, how did you manage that?

Always told her she looks a bit like a car crash :whistle:

The accident involved a bus stop, donkeys and a couple of flips in a rented VW Polo. Too much to go into here but the full story's about 2/3rds of the way down my old travel blog. Suffice to say I don't like donkeys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Always told her she looks a bit like a car crash :whistle:

The accident involved a bus stop, donkeys and a couple of flips in a rented VW Polo. Too much to go into here but the full story's about 2/3rds of the way down my old travel blog. Suffice to say I don't like donkeys.

Ouch, stupid donkeys.

Love the comment from grandma at the bottom lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Mental health's a bit volatile this week so I'm embarking on a "sort ya ****ing life out" kick.

Making changes to smaller things in the hope that it will help add up to bigger changes.

Like getting rid of small habits that can be big distractions.

For example I've deactivated my Facebook account.

And put a blocker on my browser so I am forced to stay away from certain websites.

And I'm getting an alarm clock so that I can leave my phone downstairs at night.

Setting aside an hour tonight so that I'm not glued to my TV/PS4 and read a book instead.

I'm fed up with my brain having very little actual stimulation.

Anyone got any more tips?

Social media is absolutely toxic at the moment, and yet it manages to suck us in. I envy anybody who can permanently steer clear of it.

It sounds like you need a new hobby, enrol on a course, try a new sport, learn a musical instrument (you can get a semi decent keyboard or acoustic guitar for less than £100), something to keep your mind occupied and stimulated. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Social media is absolutely toxic at the moment, and yet it manages to suck us in. I envy anybody who can permanently steer clear of it.

It sounds like you need a new hobby, enrol on a course, try a new sport, learn a musical instrument (you can get a semi decent keyboard or acoustic guitar for less than £100), something to keep your mind occupied and stimulated. 

Sounds good but I spent time with jigsaw and Rubik cube using online guided and they made me irritable and angry.

Enjoyed doing it for a bit then it just pissed me off

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Went to see the doctor earlier about anxiety and he was absolutely ****ing useless. Wasn't helpful and seemed a bit perturbed that I wanted our chat off the record, that i don't want even low dose medication and that I have my reservations about CBT.

I keep having panic attacks - struggle with tube journeys as I'm immediately panicky, bus not much better, large crowds mostly difficult (hopefully be okay on Saturday at Southampton), also keep waking up with a panic attack (last night was particularly bad) and it's rare to have an evening without one. Plus I keep getting pains that I think are anxiety caused but then I panic it could be something worse too.

The thing is, I feel really quite content, happy, and comfortable with life on the whole. The one thing I hate at the moment is living in London and I think that's behind the anxiety. And the anxiety is leading to me not wanting to do certain things which feels like a slippery slope.

It's tough when you come across a health professional that just doesn't seem so bothered about these issues. He had his standard ideas of how to solve it so when I didn't agree he didn't want to help any further. Frustrating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Sounds good but I spent time with jigsaw and Rubik cube using online guided and they made me irritable and angry.

Enjoyed doing it for a bit then it just pissed me off

Fair enough, it could be argued that that is a consequence of the here and now of the way the world is now. We want everything done now, Jigsaw's and Rubik Cubes require patience and you wont be the first and last to get frustrated at them. It sounds like you've taken the first steps which is great, I'd really just advise to stay busy, cooking is always a good one for me. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Ouch, stupid donkeys.

Love the comment from grandma at the bottom lol 

She was a special one, bless her. After I got home from that trip she'd kept a folder for me of newspaper clippings about City from the Mercury, for a whole 7 months. She'd also printed off all the blog posts so that she could get closer with the magnifying glass! What a character she was. Legend!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Went to see the doctor earlier about anxiety and he was absolutely ****ing useless. Wasn't helpful and seemed a bit perturbed that I wanted our chat off the record, that i don't want even low dose medication and that I have my reservations about CBT.

I keep having panic attacks - struggle with tube journeys as I'm immediately panicky, bus not much better, large crowds mostly difficult (hopefully be okay on Saturday at Southampton), also keep waking up with a panic attack (last night was particularly bad) and it's rare to have an evening without one. Plus I keep getting pains that I think are anxiety caused but then I panic it could be something worse too.

The thing is, I feel really quite content, happy, and comfortable with life on the whole. The one thing I hate at the moment is living in London and I think that's behind the anxiety. And the anxiety is leading to me not wanting to do certain things which feels like a slippery slope.

It's tough when you come across a health professional that just doesn't seem so bothered about these issues. He had his standard ideas of how to solve it so when I didn't agree he didn't want to help any further. Frustrating.

The medical profession has its range of competencies like any other profession, and there is so much that can be learned that it's not surprising that some GPs will be more switched on than others to the problems you're having.

You are not in a position to determine if your pains are caused by your panic attacks or have an underlying physical cause so seeing a medical professional about them is essential.  If one is not helpful try another.  Over 20 years ago I went to my GP with a heart problem, he told me that it was nothing to worry about.  A few months later I had a company medical where the doctor told me that it was a lot to worry about, I was straight off to hospital, had a series of tests and a procedure three weeks later.  If I'd just listened to my GP I might not be here.

I can't really comment on panic attacks as, unlike depression, I haven't experienced them.  From a logical point of view it seems that they would be based on irrational fears, which does also occur in depression, where your mind places a far greater risk of an event on your conscious mind than is realistic.

You have always seemed to me to be one of the most intelligent people on FT (certainly if the quiz results are anything to go by) and conditions of the mind seem to disproportionately affect the intelligent.  It also gives you a decent chance of overcoming them as you can use your analytical abilities to put them into perspective.  There are certain situations that cause panic attacks and the first step would be to determine their root cause.  For example your struggle with tube journeys - might that be a result of claustrophobia or a fear of strangers, a lot of whom are packed together in a small space?  Once the fear is identified the potential outcomes that are causing the stress can be listed and realistic probabilities of occurrence assigned - that helps put them into perspective.  For example some folks are afraid of flying, really they are afraid of dying in a plane crash but the odds of that are incredibly small, and once that is accepted the fear can be overcome.

I hope that you can persist with CBT, I found it essential in putting my thoughts into order and managing them.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Went to see the doctor earlier about anxiety and he was absolutely ****ing useless. Wasn't helpful and seemed a bit perturbed that I wanted our chat off the record, that i don't want even low dose medication and that I have my reservations about CBT.

 I keep having panic attacks - struggle with tube journeys as I'm immediately panicky, bus not much better, large crowds mostly difficult (hopefully be okay on Saturday at Southampton), also keep waking up with a panic attack (last night was particularly bad) and it's rare to have an evening without one. Plus I keep getting pains that I think are anxiety caused but then I panic it could be something worse too.

 The thing is, I feel really quite content, happy, and comfortable with life on the whole. The one thing I hate at the moment is living in London and I think that's behind the anxiety. And the anxiety is leading to me not wanting to do certain things which feels like a slippery slope.

It's tough when you come across a health professional that just doesn't seem so bothered about these issues. He had his standard ideas of how to solve it so when I didn't agree he didn't want to help any further. Frustrating.

GPs are pretty limited in their understanding tbf. They have their go to treatments but they're lost beyond that. I can understand not wanting to go on medication and your reservations about CBT. However it sounds like the latter might actually be suited to your issues. I have big problems personally with CBT and it didn't help me at all (that is a complicated other story) but it has undeniably helped a lot of people and it's particularly suited to anxiety. Of the treatments available to you on the NHS in the short term it's likely to have the highest chance of success, without the risks involved in starting meds that might be difficult to get off.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With regard to physical pain caused by depression/anxiety, it is certainly real.

 

I have a damaged back caused by years of judo, and I also suffer from depression. My back has almost "gone" twice in last 2 week's and my acupuncturist states categorically that it is caused by stress, which causes tightening of the muscles etc.

 

Now at work with my corset on for support (well elasticated back support that is actually made to make my fat belly sweat when exercising to target the weight loss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kopfkino to echo what @what? said, I understand anyone's reservations about CBT but he's got a point when he says it sounds pretty tailor made for your situation.

A lot of emphasis on coping strategies for basic anxiety episodes. 

I actually think SSRIs, whilst have their weaknesses, are pretty good for anxiety to be fair, have you been on them before? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Crinklyfox said:

The medical profession has its range of competencies like any other profession, and there is so much that can be learned that it's not surprising that some GPs will be more switched on than others to the problems you're having.

You are not in a position to determine if your pains are caused by your panic attacks or have an underlying physical cause so seeing a medical professional about them is essential.  If one is not helpful try another.  Over 20 years ago I went to my GP with a heart problem, he told me that it was nothing to worry about.  A few months later I had a company medical where the doctor told me that it was a lot to worry about, I was straight off to hospital, had a series of tests and a procedure three weeks later.  If I'd just listened to my GP I might not be here.

I can't really comment on panic attacks as, unlike depression, I haven't experienced them.  From a logical point of view it seems that they would be based on irrational fears, which does also occur in depression, where your mind places a far greater risk of an event on your conscious mind than is realistic.

You have always seemed to me to be one of the most intelligent people on FT (certainly if the quiz results are anything to go by) and conditions of the mind seem to disproportionately affect the intelligent.  It also gives you a decent chance of overcoming them as you can use your analytical abilities to put them into perspective.  There are certain situations that cause panic attacks and the first step would be to determine their root cause.  For example your struggle with tube journeys - might that be a result of claustrophobia or a fear of strangers, a lot of whom are packed together in a small space?  Once the fear is identified the potential outcomes that are causing the stress can be listed and realistic probabilities of occurrence assigned - that helps put them into perspective.  For example some folks are afraid of flying, really they are afraid of dying in a plane crash but the odds of that are incredibly small, and once that is accepted the fear can be overcome.

I hope that you can persist with CBT, I found it essential in putting my thoughts into order and managing them.

 

 

9 hours ago, what? said:

GPs are pretty limited in their understanding tbf. They have their go to treatments but they're lost beyond that. I can understand not wanting to go on medication and your reservations about CBT. However it sounds like the latter might actually be suited to your issues. I have big problems personally with CBT and it didn't help me at all (that is a complicated other story) but it has undeniably helped a lot of people and it's particularly suited to anxiety. Of the treatments available to you on the NHS in the short term it's likely to have the highest chance of success, without the risks involved in starting meds that might be difficult to get off.

 

 

7 hours ago, Finnegan said:

@Kopfkino to echo what @what? said, I understand anyone's reservations about CBT but he's got a point when he says it sounds pretty tailor made for your situation.

A lot of emphasis on coping strategies for basic anxiety episodes. 

I actually think SSRIs, whilst have their weaknesses, are pretty good for anxiety to be fair, have you been on them before? 

 

I don’t want SSRIs because I despise them from past experience even if it’s just a low dose. Also I may have a medical coming up in month or so which will be failed if I’m on them.

I just did not get on with CBT last time, maybe because of the therapist not being right for me or maybe I didn’t approach it properly, or maybe it just doesn’t work for me. It just felt like one massive nonsense to me. For example, and we didn’t actually approach this particular anxiety, but CBT could not help with my flying fear. As a bit of an aviation geek, I know we’ll enough there’s little reason to fear flying from a danger point of view and I think perfectly rationally about flying, there is no thoughts to really change. But it doesn’t stop me being absolutely petrified. I was on a flight earlier this year, just settling down from my initial panic at takeoff, CC enters the flight deck and I’m saying to family she’s gone to see if they want anything. Seconds later I’m panicked and quivering mess for another 10 minutes. Nowhere in my conscious was I thinking in a way that I could use cognition to help me at that point. And for me that stretches to pretty much everything we tried to conquer with CBT, there’s often nothing that a bit of cognition could sort out/there’s an arousal that can’t be overcome just by having different thoughts. Again Waking up in the middle of the night and within 30 seconds going into a panic attack doesn’t seem to be the result of thinking. I was barely awake, let alone having conscious thoughts that I could cognition away. In fairness though, the physical coping strategies I learnt have helped in terms of being able to make it less of an ordeal instead of it going on for an hour. 

Anyway, I went for a scan today for one of these pains and actually found a leaflet for a self-referral service that will sit down with you for an hour to do a full assessment and find the best treatment. It offers some of these psychodynamic treatments which I think look more suitable for me. I could have to contribute towards it but I don’t mind that.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

 

I don’t want SSRIs because I despise them from past experience even if it’s just a low dose. Also I may have a medical coming up in month or so which will be failed if I’m on them.

I just did not get on with CBT last time, maybe because of the therapist not being right for me or maybe I didn’t approach it properly, or maybe it just doesn’t work for me. It just felt like one massive nonsense to me. For example, and we didn’t actually approach this particular anxiety, but CBT could not help with my flying fear. As a bit of an aviation geek, I know we’ll enough there’s little reason to fear flying from a danger point of view and I think perfectly rationally about flying, there is no thoughts to really change. But it doesn’t stop me being absolutely petrified. I was on a flight earlier this year, just settling down from my initial panic at takeoff, CC enters the flight deck and I’m saying to family she’s gone to see if they want anything. Seconds later I’m panicked and quivering mess for another 10 minutes. Nowhere in my conscious was I thinking in a way that I could use cognition to help me at that point. And for me that stretches to pretty much everything we tried to conquer with CBT, there’s often nothing that a bit of cognition could sort out/there’s an arousal that can’t be overcome just by having different thoughts. Again Waking up in the middle of the night and within 30 seconds going into a panic attack doesn’t seem to be the result of thinking. I was barely awake, let alone having conscious thoughts that I could cognition away. In fairness though, the physical coping strategies I learnt have helped in terms of being able to make it less of an ordeal instead of it going on for an hour. 

Anyway, I went for a scan today for one of these pains and actually found a leaflet for a self-referral service that will sit down with you for an hour to do a full assessment and find the best treatment. It offers some of these psychodynamic treatments which I think look more suitable for me. I could have to contribute towards it but I don’t mind that.

 

Whilst having the utmost empathy for you mate, I also find this really fascinating...

My understanding from studying this over recent years is that our feelings (panic/anxiety in your case) always comes from an initial thought beforehand.

It seems like your panic attacks tend to 'just happen' without any conscious thinking first - which I find really interesting. 

So taking 'thought' out of the equation for a minute, I wonder if these attacks are a result of you running constant high levels of Cortisol instead? I appreciate you don't want to take SSRI's but I wondered if there some treatment available to reduce your cortisol levels and therefore reduce the anxiety/panic attacks? (If indeed that is the cause)

I'm obviously no Doctor and could be way of the mark, but just thought about approaching it from a different angle.

Hope you don't mind my interest in your situation but I know a few people who've suffered from anxiety recently and they've all benefited from CBT and more awareness around their thinking.

As others have said, you're obviously a very smart guy and I hope you manage to get it sorted one way or another :)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Whilst having the utmost empathy for you mate, I also find this really fascinating...

My understanding from studying this over recent years is that our feelings (panic/anxiety in your case) always comes from an initial thought beforehand.

It seems like your panic attacks tend to 'just happen' without any conscious thinking first - which I find really interesting. 

So taking 'thought' out of the equation for a minute, I wonder if these attacks are a result of you running constant high levels of Cortisol instead? I appreciate you don't want to take SSRI's but I wondered if there some treatment available to reduce your cortisol levels and therefore reduce the anxiety/panic attacks? (If indeed that is the cause)

I'm obviously no Doctor and could be way of the mark, but just thought about approaching it from a different angle.

Hope you don't mind my interest in your situation but I know a few people who've suffered from anxiety recently and they've all benefited from CBT and more awareness around their thinking.

As others have said, you're obviously a very smart guy and I hope you manage to get it sorted one way or another :)

 

Actually I must say to anyone that reads anything I've said here at any point, I don't wish to put anyone off CBT as it's a very personal thing and what doesn't work for me seems to work for a lot of people. 

I don't know about cortisol tbh mate, looking at other possible symptoms I can't see anything else that might indicate this. I think Dad has had problems with low levels before (maybe that was adrenaline) so I'm not sure. I'd have to mention it to a Dr I suppose but unless today's scan shows anything I don't fancy seeing any of them for a while if I can self refer for this thing.

 

Just to possibly feed your curiosity a bit more, today I've got thinking that maybe the fact I don't like living here anymore could be causing it rather than, as I thought before, the anxiety causing me to dislike living here. Or it could even be mutual and be a cycle. Say that dislike/discomfort/whatever the right term is causes me to, probably unconsciously, be at a heightened level of anxiety as my natural state without any 'thoughts' going through my mind to cause it. Then maybe a negative thought pops up but its a minor one or maybe just some general stressor rather than thought, you know things that we don't really notice or maybe aren't even negative but can trigger, but it has an arousing effect that pushes your feeling of anxiety over the edge. Now even if you could combat this thought with cognition, you're at a level of anxiety where you just can't get it back under control with cognition because it's already run away from you, cognition is now ineffective. 

This is complete speculation, something triggered the pistons to fire and the cogs to whir and that's an idea for why. I say it because I read recently about one part of the brain dealing with the cognition and another part the chemical response. So if normally you can take back control through cognition before you get to the point of return, it could be that starting at a higher level means you don't have the time to react before your cognition is overwhelmed. Or it could also be that some people are better at engaging/reacting before cognition is overwhelmed. Then your only hope is the part that deals with the chemical/unconscious emotional response and if that can't regulate for some reason then boom the anxiety consumes you.

That's not quite as coherent as I'd like it, it's a bit messy and jumbled but it's how it came out. This is my hope that some of the other therapies out there might be able to help either by reducing my natural anxiety or helping the non-cognition bit of the process work better. Or maybe I think too much about things and that's why nothing has so far worked. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Actually I must say to anyone that reads anything I've said here at any point, I don't wish to put anyone off CBT as it's a very personal thing and what doesn't work for me seems to work for a lot of people. 

I don't know about cortisol tbh mate, looking at other possible symptoms I can't see anything else that might indicate this. I think Dad has had problems with low levels before (maybe that was adrenaline) so I'm not sure. I'd have to mention it to a Dr I suppose but unless today's scan shows anything I don't fancy seeing any of them for a while if I can self refer for this thing.

 

Just to possibly feed your curiosity a bit more, today I've got thinking that maybe the fact I don't like living here anymore could be causing it rather than, as I thought before, the anxiety causing me to dislike living here. Or it could even be mutual and be a cycle. Say that dislike/discomfort/whatever the right term is causes me to, probably unconsciously, be at a heightened level of anxiety as my natural state without any 'thoughts' going through my mind to cause it. Then maybe a negative thought pops up but its a minor one or maybe just some general stressor rather than thought, you know things that we don't really notice or maybe aren't even negative but can trigger, but it has an arousing effect that pushes your feeling of anxiety over the edge. Now even if you could combat this thought with cognition, you're at a level of anxiety where you just can't get it back under control with cognition because it's already run away from you, cognition is now ineffective. 

This is complete speculation, something triggered the pistons to fire and the cogs to whir and that's an idea for why. I say it because I read recently about one part of the brain dealing with the cognition and another part the chemical response. So if normally you can take back control through cognition before you get to the point of return, it could be that starting at a higher level means you don't have the time to react before your cognition is overwhelmed. Or it could also be that some people are better at engaging/reacting before cognition is overwhelmed. Then your only hope is the part that deals with the chemical/unconscious emotional response and if that can't regulate for some reason then boom the anxiety consumes you.

That's not quite as coherent as I'd like it, it's a bit messy and jumbled but it's how it came out. This is my hope that some of the other therapies out there might be able to help either by reducing my natural anxiety or helping the non-cognition bit of the process work better. Or maybe I think too much about things and that's why nothing has so far worked. 

Not messy or jumbled up at all mate, makes perfect sense to me. I think you might have nailed it actually.

The reason I mentioned Cortisol is that my guess is you're running high levels of it because you're on a high state of 'alert' due to your environment. Having commuted and worked in London a bit myself over the years, I've noticed myself becoming anxious as soon as I get on the train in. The 'thoughts' of overcrowding, confined spaces, no room to move, feeling claustrophobic, possible terror attacks, etc, etc, are enough to make even the most chilled out person anxious.

There's no way on gods earth I could live in London - it would just be way too stressful for me. That's why I prefer to live out in the sticks where it's quiet and peaceful as I'm more prone to anxiety when in busy cities.

So your 'start point' is already high as you elude to. If we're in a heightened state of alert most of the time anyway and continually running high levels of cortisol and adrenaline, the blood drains from our pre-frontal cortex (the rational, thinking part of the brain) and instead goes into our muscles to prepare us for fight/flight/freeze and possible conflict. We lose the ability to think straight.

I'm not sure you need therapy mate. You're very self aware and you understand what's going on. What we focus on is determined by our environment and you live in a particularly stressful environment.

I'd hazard a guess that if you changed your environment and didn't feel under threat, your stress hormone levels would drop and you'd stop feeling anxious, the panic attacks would diminish and you'd be back to your natural place of clarity and well-being.

And I could also be talking complete horse shit :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/08/2018 at 19:04, Izzy Muzzett said:

Last full day on hols today at Universal Studios mate then flying back tomorrow.

Looking forward to returning to reality and the inevitable post holiday blues :(

Bloody hell izzy.Following each other on holiday 2 years running.

Got back Saturday.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, cambridgefox said:

Bloody hell izzy.Following each other on holiday 2 years running.

Got back Saturday.

:thumbup:

Hope you had a good time again mate. We landed back this morning and I didn't sleep on the flight or since we've got home so I could crash any second :D

I'm glad to be home tbh. Although it's great fun out there it's just too busy for me at this time of year. There were a few times over the last 2 weeks where I thought to myself I should be really happy and grateful to be on holiday, but I was far from it.

The crowds, the humidity, the stress of driving, my Crohn's playing up, the kids kicking off every 5 minutes, the bugs, the wife having a go, rude staff, the massive credit card bill to pay, etc, etc. (all my thinking about these things btw, not the things themselves)

Sad really that I struggle to have fun in the fun capital of the world :(

P.S this 'woe is me' post has just reminded me of this 5 minute youtube clip that someone once sent me when I was in therapy. No offense intended to anyone on this thread but sometimes I watch it as a metaphorical kick in the nads :)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

:thumbup:

Hope you had a good time again mate. We landed back this morning and I didn't sleep on the flight or since we've got home so I could crash any second :D

I'm glad to be home tbh. Although it's great fun out there it's just too busy for me at this time of year. There were a few times over the last 2 weeks where I thought to myself I should be really happy and grateful to be on holiday, but I was far from it.

The crowds, the humidity, the stress of driving, my Crohn's playing up, the kids kicking off every 5 minutes, the bugs, the wife having a go, rude staff, the massive credit card bill to pay, etc, etc. (all my thinking about these things btw, not the things themselves)

Sad really that I struggle to have fun in the fun capital of the world :(

P.S this 'woe is me' post has just reminded me of this 5 minute youtube clip that someone once sent me when I was in therapy. No offense intended to anyone on this thread but sometimes I watch it as a metaphorical kick in the nads :)

 

Sorry to hear that Izzy,you are one of FTs legends helping others.

You know my circumstances regarding how lucky I am and I’m fully aware it’s not cheap at all.

Humidity makes everything hard work and tight spaces with sweaty loud people makes me a tad grumpy too.

was glad to get to Clearwater to relax for 5 days this year.

my mate does the driving as he loves it,but they don’t do lanes on the I4.Terrible drivers.Very stressful.

Sometimes Iike xmas the build up seems better.

Hope everything settles down mate and I really wish I could give you some helpful advice,but compared to the advice you give many others it would seem pathetic.

If more people were kind natured like you the world would be a better place.

Good luck

( PS all,my lucky circumstances are not an everyday thing ,I only have to pay airport taxes for flights to US)

Edited by cambridgefox
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

 

I don’t want SSRIs because I despise them from past experience even if it’s just a low dose. Also I may have a medical coming up in month or so which will be failed if I’m on them.

I just did not get on with CBT last time, maybe because of the therapist not being right for me or maybe I didn’t approach it properly, or maybe it just doesn’t work for me. It just felt like one massive nonsense to me. For example, and we didn’t actually approach this particular anxiety, but CBT could not help with my flying fear. As a bit of an aviation geek, I know we’ll enough there’s little reason to fear flying from a danger point of view and I think perfectly rationally about flying, there is no thoughts to really change. But it doesn’t stop me being absolutely petrified. I was on a flight earlier this year, just settling down from my initial panic at takeoff, CC enters the flight deck and I’m saying to family she’s gone to see if they want anything. Seconds later I’m panicked and quivering mess for another 10 minutes. Nowhere in my conscious was I thinking in a way that I could use cognition to help me at that point. And for me that stretches to pretty much everything we tried to conquer with CBT, there’s often nothing that a bit of cognition could sort out/there’s an arousal that can’t be overcome just by having different thoughts. Again Waking up in the middle of the night and within 30 seconds going into a panic attack doesn’t seem to be the result of thinking. I was barely awake, let alone having conscious thoughts that I could cognition away. In fairness though, the physical coping strategies I learnt have helped in terms of being able to make it less of an ordeal instead of it going on for an hour. 

Anyway, I went for a scan today for one of these pains and actually found a leaflet for a self-referral service that will sit down with you for an hour to do a full assessment and find the best treatment. It offers some of these psychodynamic treatments which I think look more suitable for me. I could have to contribute towards it but I don’t mind that.

 

Apologies then for suggesting CBT. You sounds similar to me in some respects although my problems are not so quite so anxiety based. I had six months of group CBT once and it was the biggest waste of time. I was extremely heavily medicated in that period and I watched everyone else in the group improve and get better and it didn't even scratch the surface of my stuff. I know this is a huge oversimplification but CBT always seemed to boil down to 'fake it til you make it' and I don't think any treatment that was so focused on symptom management as opposed to addressing the root causes of stuff was ever going to work for me. It's interesting that you mention psychodynamic therapy though because that was what eventually worked for me, totally saved my life. Just a shame it takes years of waiting to get it on the NHS. If you have the possibility of access to that then it's definitely worth looking into further.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anyone hasn't given it a fair shot yet and is struggling with other forms of treatment, I'd really recommend mindfulness meditation. And by fair shot, i mean 10-20 mins a day for at least two weeks to a month. I do it first thing when I get in from work and haven't found it too difficult to incorporate into my daily routine.

It really helped with my negative thinking. To the point where I would say I've not had a full-on depressive episode since I've been doing it regularly. I don't want to make it sound like a cure-all panacea though. It doesn't so much stop the thinking, rather it allows you to recognise when you're being tugged around by thoughts and create a bit of distance from them.

It took me a couple of tries to establish it regularly. I think the first time I gave it two sessions before writing it off as pointless woo-woo. I read a bit more and listened to some podcasts on the subject which helped me develop a greater understanding of the process and point of it, which I think can often be confused. When it helped me to first truly, intuitively realise that 'I am not my thoughts', it was somewhat of a revelation.

Just thought I'd share my two pennies worth. If anyone needs a little extra push to give it a go, I'd be happy to share what worked for me or provide a little more info. All the best to everyone commenting in and reading this thread. It's been said before, but it is really quite remarkable and touching.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

If anyone hasn't given it a fair shot yet and is struggling with other forms of treatment, I'd really recommend mindfulness meditation. And by fair shot, i mean 10-20 mins a day for at least two weeks to a month. I do it first thing when I get in from work and haven't found it too difficult to incorporate into my daily routine.

It really helped with my negative thinking. To the point where I would say I've not had a full-on depressive episode since I've been doing it regularly. I don't want to make it sound like a cure-all panacea though. It doesn't so much stop the thinking, rather it allows you to recognise when you're being tugged around by thoughts and create a bit of distance from them.

It took me a couple of tries to establish it regularly. I think the first time I gave it two sessions before writing it off as pointless woo-woo. I read a bit more and listened to some podcasts on the subject which helped me develop a greater understanding of the process and point of it, which I think can often be confused. When it helped me to first truly, intuitively realise that 'I am not my thoughts', it was somewhat of a revelation.

Just thought I'd share my two pennies worth. If anyone needs a little extra push to give it a go, I'd be happy to share what worked for me or provide a little more info. All the best to everyone commenting in and reading this thread. It's been said before, but it is really quite remarkable and touching.

I'm interested in this. Never heard of it before. Got any links to get me started/find out more.

If not, happy to Google but after just watching ted 2 I'm aware that any Google search is only 2 clicks away from black cocks ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, what? said:

Apologies then for suggesting CBT. You sounds similar to me in some respects although my problems are not so quite so anxiety based. I had six months of group CBT once and it was the biggest waste of time. I was extremely heavily medicated in that period and I watched everyone else in the group improve and get better and it didn't even scratch the surface of my stuff. I know this is a huge oversimplification but CBT always seemed to boil down to 'fake it til you make it' and I don't think any treatment that was so focused on symptom management as opposed to addressing the root causes of stuff was ever going to work for me. It's interesting that you mention psychodynamic therapy though because that was what eventually worked for me, totally saved my life. Just a shame it takes years of waiting to get it on the NHS. If you have the possibility of access to that then it's definitely worth looking into further.  

Fake it til you make it is pretty much how I described CBT to someone on here, but must say, for anyone with depression reading this, it really did work for me.

Everything the 2 of you have said about this in relation to anxiety makes sense and I can easily see how it could be a waste of time for the 2 of you.

 

Mine is definitely a hereditary medical depression, made worse by situational depression, but I genuinely don't think there is a rational reason or trigger point for how mine originally started, hence fake it til you make it is the best I can do, and it really did/does work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just been renewing my business insurance and found one that offers free 24 hrs a day counselling helpline for all employees. I would be happy to pay a premium for this for me and my staff but have now found out it is included in my very cheap home office insurance, without any marketing dedicated to it and hidden in the small print.

 

I think it is a fantastic thing, and wonder if it might be worth chatting to employers to find out if it is available. I know it can be difficult to approach but some of you might know someone in hr, or have a good relationship with the boss.

 

Surely worth a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...