Depression

[egg_fried_rice]

30 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

I'm interested in this. Never heard of it before. Got any links to get me started/find out more.

If not, happy to Google but after just watching ted 2 I'm aware that any Google search is only 2 clicks away from black cocks ?

For sure - I can recommend both the 10% Happier, and Calm apps. They offer free guided meditation courses for beginners you can try out before subscribing to get the full content. I believe other people have had success with the Headspace app too. There is also a book/audiobook I would really recommend called 10% Happier written by an ABC news anchor called Dan Harris who had a panic attack live on air. It chronicles his journey from a depressive striver who self medicated with drugs, through his various struggles and therapies and initial scepticism towards meditation, to the point where he now hosts a weekly podcast on the subject and has produced the related app. It resonated with me as this man was a high-achieving, 'normal', professional guy who still had his demons, and was equally sceptical of the wishy-washy new-age stuff that meditation is often bundled with.

Of course you don't need either an app or guidance to meditate, but I believe the guided meditations are really useful - especially to begin with - as they will give you some insight as to what to do and what to expect. Anchoring your focus on your breathing for example, or a phrase I often bring to mind, 'sit, and know you are sitting'. Many people with little to no knowledge about mindfulness meditation assume it's all about clearing the mind and having no thoughts at all. Not only is this nearly impossible (as just a few sessions of meditation will likely show you!), but it is sort of the opposite of the purpose.

At it's core (although there are a few different schools of thought on this which I won't bog you down with now!), mindfulness meditation is about bringing non-judgemental awareness to the present moment, whatever that present moment might consist of. For example, if I'm sat meditating and my hand feels tingly, I would bring my attention there and observe it internally. Not judge it, or push it away, just be with it. I think most people find body based meditations fairly intuitive.

The same process is also applied to thoughts, which in my experience is less intuitive. Most of the time, we don't even realise we are lost in thought - the way we think about things is the only reality we are used to. The crux of mindfulness is to notice when you are thinking. This can be difficult at first, but it does get easier. A soft mental label like 'planning', 'judging', or 'reminiscing' etc. can be applied when we become able to identify the type of thought we are having. Even just the generic label 'thinking' is useful. You will continually get lost in thought - that is just how our minds work and is nothing to be annoyed about. Each time you are able to notice you are lost in thought and are able to bring your attention back to the breath or the body, you might like to think of that as a 'bicep curl for the brain'. It is those 'bicep curls' that allow our brains, over time, to notice more quickly when we are becoming lost in an unskillful thought spiral. And the simple act of noticing often leads to it stopping.

In learning to recognise when we are thinking along with the content of those thoughts, they start to have less sway over us. We can learn to let thoughts come and go without getting attached to them, just like we would let the tingling of a hand come and go. It really highlights the impermanent nature of our thoughts (and our existence!) and allows us to bring a greater focus to our present-moment experience.

I hope that reads clearly for you, although I think I babbled on a bit! It's difficult to think back about how much of this stuff made sense to me when I first started out. There has been an explosion of scientific research into the subject over recent years which has confirmed many benefits. Here's an NHS assessment of a mindfulness based CBT study carried out by Oxford University and the National Institute for Health Research - just one of many: https://www.nhs.uk/news/mental-health/mindfulness-as-good-as-drugs-for-preventing-depression-relapse/

I could talk about this for hours, so I'll stop here. Hopefully that's saved you from too many unwanted Google cocks for now.

 

 

[gw_leics772]

4 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

For sure - I can recommend both the 10% Happier, and Calm apps. They offer free guided meditation courses for beginners you can try out before subscribing to get the full content. I believe other people have had success with the Headspace app too. There is also a book/audiobook I would really recommend called 10% Happier written by an ABC news anchor called Dan Harris who had a panic attack live on air. It chronicles his journey from a depressive striver who self medicated with drugs, through his various struggles and therapies and initial scepticism towards meditation, to the point where he now hosts a weekly podcast on the subject and has produced the related app. It resonated with me as this man was a high-achieving, 'normal', professional guy who still had his demons, and was equally sceptical of the wishy-washy new-age stuff that meditation is often bundled with.

Of course you don't need either an app or guidance to meditate, but I believe the guided meditations are really useful - especially to begin with - as they will give you some insight as to what to do and what to expect. Anchoring your focus on your breathing for example, or a phrase I often bring to mind, 'sit, and know you are sitting'. Many people with little to no knowledge about mindfulness meditation assume it's all about clearing the mind and having no thoughts at all. Not only is this nearly impossible (as just a few sessions of meditation will likely show you!), but it is sort of the opposite of the purpose.

At it's core (although there are a few different schools of thought on this which I won't bog you down with now!), mindfulness meditation is about bringing non-judgemental awareness to the present moment, whatever that present moment might consist of. For example, if I'm sat meditating and my hand feels tingly, I would bring my attention there and observe it internally. Not judge it, or push it away, just be with it. I think most people find body based meditations fairly intuitive.

The same process is also applied to thoughts, which in my experience is less intuitive. Most of the time, we don't even realise we are lost in thought - the way we think about things is the only reality we are used to. The crux of mindfulness is to notice when you are thinking. This can be difficult at first, but it does get easier. A soft mental label like 'planning', 'judging', or 'reminiscing' etc. can be applied when we become able to identify the type of thought we are having. Even just the generic label 'thinking' is useful. You will continually get lost in thought - that is just how our minds work and is nothing to be annoyed about. Each time you are able to notice you are lost in thought and are able to bring your attention back to the breath or the body, you might like to think of that as a 'bicep curl for the brain'. It is those 'bicep curls' that allow our brains, over time, to notice more quickly when we are becoming lost in an unskillful thought spiral. And the simple act of noticing often leads to it stopping.

In learning to recognise when we are thinking along with the content of those thoughts, they start to have less sway over us. We can learn to let thoughts come and go without getting attached to them, just like we would let the tingling of a hand come and go. It really highlights the impermanent nature of our thoughts (and our existence!) and allows us to bring a greater focus to our present-moment experience.

I hope that reads clearly for you, although I think I babbled on a bit! It's difficult to think back about how much of this stuff made sense to me when I first started out. There has been an explosion of scientific research into the subject over recent years which has confirmed many benefits. Here's an NHS assessment of a mindfulness based CBT study carried out by Oxford University and the National Institute for Health Research - just one of many: https://www.nhs.uk/news/mental-health/mindfulness-as-good-as-drugs-for-preventing-depression-relapse/

I could talk about this for hours, so I'll stop here. Hopefully that's saved you from too many unwanted Google cocks for now.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I will definitely give it a try and will no doubt reread this several times and also read up on it a bit more before I jump in.

If you don't mind, I'll ask questions about it to you on here as I believe this kind of thing is especially useful to those who just read but aren't ready to "reach  out" or discuss their own feelings on here.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Appreciated 

[gw_leics772]

1 minute ago, gw_leics772 said:

Thanks for the info. I will definitely give it a try and will no doubt reread this several times and also read up on it a bit more before I jump in.

If you don't mind, I'll ask questions about it to you on here as I believe this kind of thing is especially useful to those who just read but aren't ready to "reach  out" or discuss their own feelings on here.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Appreciated 

For those who think. Tldr: (too long, didn't read, please refer to my comment last night on the "things that grind.my gears thread" ?

That's also a great thread for general offloading.

Edited 24 August 2018 by gw_leics772

[Izzy]

@egg_fried_rice I love your description of meditation mate, thanks for sharing 

My Pilates/Yoga teacher often does a brief 5-10 minute guided meditation after a group class and I pretty much always fall asleep 

[egg_fried_rice]

16 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Thanks for the info. I will definitely give it a try and will no doubt reread this several times and also read up on it a bit more before I jump in.

If you don't mind, I'll ask questions about it to you on here as I believe this kind of thing is especially useful to those who just read but aren't ready to "reach  out" or discuss their own feelings on here.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Appreciated 

No worries, and feel free to ask away.

If it seems daunting to begin with, start with just 60 seconds a day and work up from there.

[egg_fried_rice]

10 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

@egg_fried_rice I love your description of meditation mate, thanks for sharing 

My Pilates/Yoga teacher often does a brief 5-10 minute guided meditation after a group class and I pretty much always fall asleep 

It seems to echo a lot of the advice you've given in this thread, despite coming at it from a non meditative angle. I find it really interesting that many of the healthier coping mechanisms seem to circle around a similar mindset.

I do find the yoga meditations to be a little different to mindfulness practice and more relaxation focused - we've got a snorer in our class so you're certainly not alone!

[ajthefox]

5 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

For sure - I can recommend both the 10% Happier, and Calm apps. They offer free guided meditation courses for beginners you can try out before subscribing to get the full content. I believe other people have had success with the Headspace app too. There is also a book/audiobook I would really recommend called 10% Happier written by an ABC news anchor called Dan Harris who had a panic attack live on air. It chronicles his journey from a depressive striver who self medicated with drugs, through his various struggles and therapies and initial scepticism towards meditation, to the point where he now hosts a weekly podcast on the subject and has produced the related app. It resonated with me as this man was a high-achieving, 'normal', professional guy who still had his demons, and was equally sceptical of the wishy-washy new-age stuff that meditation is often bundled with.

Of course you don't need either an app or guidance to meditate, but I believe the guided meditations are really useful - especially to begin with - as they will give you some insight as to what to do and what to expect. Anchoring your focus on your breathing for example, or a phrase I often bring to mind, 'sit, and know you are sitting'. Many people with little to no knowledge about mindfulness meditation assume it's all about clearing the mind and having no thoughts at all. Not only is this nearly impossible (as just a few sessions of meditation will likely show you!), but it is sort of the opposite of the purpose.

At it's core (although there are a few different schools of thought on this which I won't bog you down with now!), mindfulness meditation is about bringing non-judgemental awareness to the present moment, whatever that present moment might consist of. For example, if I'm sat meditating and my hand feels tingly, I would bring my attention there and observe it internally. Not judge it, or push it away, just be with it. I think most people find body based meditations fairly intuitive.

The same process is also applied to thoughts, which in my experience is less intuitive. Most of the time, we don't even realise we are lost in thought - the way we think about things is the only reality we are used to. The crux of mindfulness is to notice when you are thinking. This can be difficult at first, but it does get easier. A soft mental label like 'planning', 'judging', or 'reminiscing' etc. can be applied when we become able to identify the type of thought we are having. Even just the generic label 'thinking' is useful. You will continually get lost in thought - that is just how our minds work and is nothing to be annoyed about. Each time you are able to notice you are lost in thought and are able to bring your attention back to the breath or the body, you might like to think of that as a 'bicep curl for the brain'. It is those 'bicep curls' that allow our brains, over time, to notice more quickly when we are becoming lost in an unskillful thought spiral. And the simple act of noticing often leads to it stopping.

In learning to recognise when we are thinking along with the content of those thoughts, they start to have less sway over us. We can learn to let thoughts come and go without getting attached to them, just like we would let the tingling of a hand come and go. It really highlights the impermanent nature of our thoughts (and our existence!) and allows us to bring a greater focus to our present-moment experience.

I hope that reads clearly for you, although I think I babbled on a bit! It's difficult to think back about how much of this stuff made sense to me when I first started out. There has been an explosion of scientific research into the subject over recent years which has confirmed many benefits. Here's an NHS assessment of a mindfulness based CBT study carried out by Oxford University and the National Institute for Health Research - just one of many: https://www.nhs.uk/news/mental-health/mindfulness-as-good-as-drugs-for-preventing-depression-relapse/

I could talk about this for hours, so I'll stop here. Hopefully that's saved you from too many unwanted Google cocks for now.

 

 

I wouldn't say that I've ever set out to try meditation, but what you have described there feels to me like quite a good description of a body high experience from weed. At least part of it, anyway. One is chemically induced and the other not but I would suggest they are both physiological experiences. Maybe I am conflating the two somewhat, but I would probably call it an increased sense of consciousness.

Edited 24 August 2018 by ajthefox

[egg_fried_rice]

There's been a lot said on the subject. In his book, 'Waking Up' Sam Harris describes the similarities between psychedelic trips and meditation and some of the profound relaisations that can occur from either.

I've experienced body highs from weed and would claim to have had a 'peak experience' meditating too. Whilst there are similarities, I find that I'm more whipped around by the experience of weed, that it's more difficult to bring my attention to what I'm experiencing - I struggle to create the 'gap' between myself and my experience. However, at times weed can bring you instantaneously into the moment or lead you to an awareness of internal experiences, physical or mental, that you'd previously been ignorant of.

One thing's for sure, I find it ****ing impossible to meditate while high 

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, ajthefox said:

I wouldn't say that I've ever set out to try meditation, but what you have described there feels to me like quite a good description of a body high experience from weed. At least part of it, anyway. One is chemically induced and the other not but I would suggest they are both physiological experiences. Maybe I am conflating the two somewhat, but I would probably call it an increased sense of consciousness.

 

2 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

There's been a lot said on the subject. In his book, 'Waking Up' Sam Harris describes the similarities between psychedelic trips and meditation and some of the profound relaisations that can occur from either.

I've experienced body highs from weed and would claim to have had a 'peak experience' meditating too. Whilst there are similarities, I find that I'm more whipped around by the experience of weed, that it's more difficult to bring my attention to what I'm experiencing - I struggle to create the 'gap' between myself and my experience. However, at times weed can bring you instantaneously into the moment or lead you to an awareness of internal experiences, physical or mental, that you'd previously been ignorant of.

One thing's for sure, I find it ****ing impossible to meditate while high 

I've talked about a chap called Michael Neill on here before. I've been to see him talk a few times and read all his books on the 3 principles of Mind, Thought & Consciousness.

Here's a 5 minute video of him talking about 'the glass elevator' of consciousness which I really like. Took me a couple of views to 'get it' but I like the metaphor 

 

[egg_fried_rice]

1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

 

I've talked about a chap called Michael Neill on here before. I've been to see him talk a few times and read all his books on the 3 principles of Mind, Thought & Consciousness.

Here's a 5 minute video of him talking about 'the glass elevator' of consciousness which I really like. Took me a couple of views to 'get it' but I like the metaphor 

 

I like the conceit and would agree that we are essentially consciousness experiencing itself.

It's weird to get glimpses of that mindset but to also be thrown about by some of the more negative lenses through which we can view things. I suppose that's the plight of the depressive, and as the Buddhists say, 'life is suffering', but it can be overcome.

[sylofox]

Had a great day yesterday. Woke up this morning things changed. So bad now Jose makes me look happy. I can deal with the ups n downs. The real swings I can't. Wishing I was anywhere than alive atm. No not going to do anything stupid. 

Just so much wish my life was miles away. 

[urban.spaceman]

Ups and downs innit.

[FoxNotFox]

5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Ups and downs innit.

and how we respond to them... and that is something we choose. 

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, FoxNotFox said:

and how we respond to them... and that is something we choose. 

On occasions, I think that we feel we have no choices. It might be a fallacy, but the sensation exists.

[Izzy]

8 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Ups and downs innit.

And accepting it will always be so...

Understanding that the huge spectrum of human emotions are all perfectly normal and natural, and that we all go through them minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.

Not 'resisting' or feeling bad about our downs but just noticing that they're a temporary emotional state that we don't have to live in constantly. Our experience is ever changing each moment, based on our environment, the way we view the outside world, and the thinking we have attached to it. 

Embracing the 'ups' and noticing what creates them allows us to hang out there more often and feel better as a result. Knowing what makes us happy means we can strive towards it more often and be grateful for it. When we're grateful, there's no room for the downs to enter our thinking.

For most of us who've suffered from depression we've been stuck in a rut and caught up in the hopelessness of a continual downward state with no obvious escape. But there is an escape, and once we've seen the light we can help others to escape too.

Life truly is a roller-coaster of emotions and we're all riding along doing the best we can. Accepting that we're not prefect and that there will be bumps and crashes along the way is all part of the journey and sometimes we have to experience the downs to really appreciate the ups. 

[Buce]

 

Clinical trials on microdosing LSD:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/01/first-ever-trials-on-the-effects-of-microdosing-lsd-set-to-begin

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/01/it-lifted-me-out-of-depression-is-microdosing-good-for-your-mind

 

Not before time, either - I know someone whose life has been transformed by it.

Edited 1 September 2018 by Buce

[what?]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Clinical trials on microdosing LSD:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/01/first-ever-trials-on-the-effects-of-microdosing-lsd-set-to-begin

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/01/it-lifted-me-out-of-depression-is-microdosing-good-for-your-mind

 

Not before time, either - I know someone whose life has been transformed by it.

I have mixed feelings about microdosing but I have to say that LSD and psychedelics in general have probably been of equal importance to me in my mental health journey as therapy. I probably wouldn't recommend them because it can be literally trauma inducing to a certain extent and it would be dangerous to flippantly endorse them but they have hugely helped me personally. 

 

Edit: I'll add to this that I think the therapeutic potential LSD had for me was directly linked to the work I'd done having spent years in therapy. And I think possible treatments need to recognise that it's not a case of simply getting high and receiving your epiphany. The critical thinking and self reflection skills that I gained in therapy were essential in unpacking the positive rewards from psychedelics. I think if I'd just taken them when I was at my worst and hoped they might help me then it would have been a disaster.

Edited 1 September 2018 by what?

[gw_leics772]

Is microdosing less than a microdot? 

[Buce]

4 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Is microdosing less than a microdot? 

 

I'm not sure if you're being serious but yes, of course.

 

Microdosing is around 1/16th of a trip, which is an insufficient dose to cause any discernable effects.

[gw_leics772]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

I'm not sure if you're being serious but yes, of course.

 

Microdosing is around 1/16th of a trip, which is an insufficient dose to cause any discernable effects.

? I just wondered whether I'd already tried it.

[spacemunky]

I dropped enough acid in my youth to last me a lifetime 

 

Weed will be legal here as of October. Did enough of that too. 

 

Drugs for me always just made me paranoid. I'll stick to my prescription drugs now. Dreams I get from them are quite the adventure.

 

[SheppyFox]

Is it ok to talk about OCD here? Not the cleaning type, the checking type.

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Is it ok to talk about OCD here? Not the cleaning type, the checking type.

What is it about OCD you want to talk about Sheppy?

[SheppyFox]

7 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

What is it about OCD you want to talk about Sheppy?

Just whether people consider it a legitimate mental illness, I’ve struggled with it quite severely without anyone knowing quite how badly my entire life. Checking you’ve turned the hob off, checking the fridge door is closed, taps are off etc every time you leave the house, the list goes on  checking the front door is locked every time I walk past it is a particularly bad one, checking alarms are set for work 10 times before I sleep and so on. I hide it from everyone, my work encourages it too, I’m an engineer and because I spend all day checking things it’s a vicious cycle, although it makes me exceptional at my job, for bad reasons.

Edited 1 September 2018 by SheppyFox

[Izzy]

23 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Just whether people consider it a legitimate mental illness, I’ve struggled with it quite severely without anyone knowing quite how badly my entire life. Checking you’ve turned the hob off, checking the fridge door is closed, taps are off etc every time you leave the house, the list goes on  checking the front door is locked every time I walk past it is a particularly bad one, checking alarms are set for work 10 times before I sleep and so on. I hide it from everyone, my work encourages it too, I’m an engineer and because I spend all day checking things it’s a vicious cycle, although it makes me exceptional at my job, for bad reasons.

The 'experts' would definitely consider OCD to be a mental illness, yes. My daughter has it in relation to germs and cleanliness. This is the right thread to talk about it mate and fair play for explaining how it effects your day to day life. I know it's not easy.

 

Have you ever been properly diagnosed by a Doctor? The 'obsessions' are unwanted or repetitive thoughts that don't go away and can lead to a lot of anxiety. They're not a reflection of your character but the symptoms of the illness. The 'compulsions' (checking you've turned the hob off, fridge door closed etc.) are the actions and behaviors meant to reduce the anxiety caused by the obsessions. 

 

You've probably read people on here talking about CBT and that's shown to be effective in helping people deal with OCD. People with OCD may also take anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication so there's plenty of options out there.

 

If you want to address it and get it under control rather than it control you, then I'd get some professional help mate.