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ramboacdc

another school shooting

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This is a deflection, Webbo - the mental health problems encompassing the US have less to do with cannabis and much more to do with a system that practically ensures many people cannot get the help they need. 

 

And some people want something similar over here.

Taking something that causes mental illness doesn't help though does it? I wouldn't dismiss the connection so lightly either, mental illness seems to be a growing problem, there must be a reason for it.

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Taking something that causes mental illness doesn't help though does it? I wouldn't dismiss the connection so lightly either, mental illness seems to be a growing problem, there must be a reason for it.

 

It's a growing problem because of the increase of successful diagnoses, not because the incidences of mental illness in the population have gone up. Way back when it was merely dismissed. 

 

And mind-altering substances have been with us pretty much since early man found out licking the back of a certain toad or burning a particular flower made him trip balls.

 

This is all about a not-fit-for-purpose mental healthcare system that the people in charge don't want to change because of the power the health insurance lobby has, and a gun procurement system that they don't want to change because of the power the gun lobby has. 

 

If they were at least honest about that rather than offering ridiculous platitudes about exactly what the problem is and then doing nothing about it (eg. saying that the US "doesn't have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem" and then blocking legislation that would make it easier to gain access to mental healthcare for everyone) whenever there is a mass shooting I'd be more sympathetic. 

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Drugs are not the sole cause of mental illness and in many instances the reverse is true. Mental illness can lead to taking substances to alleviate the anxiety and stress caused by the illness when proper professional help is not there.

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You're slowly turning into Ken.

I don't know who ken is but you're turning into Thracian. All we need from you now is a suggestive comment about some awful things that happened to people you know which would definitely prove your point once and for all but is unfortunately just a little bit too graphic to share.

You've said, "shooters smoke cannabis, therefore cannabis causes people to become shooters". I've said, "shooters wear socks, therefore wearing socks causes people to become shooters".

Both statements are equally ridiculous

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Think you're looking too much in to being drugged up Webbo,

 

In regards to the Chicago shootings, these are mostly gang related. No end of 14 year olds being shot on street corners for no reason other than a dispute and this happens in one of the strictest areas for gun laws. It's definitely more of a criminal problem than a gun problem in the gang ridden neighbourhoods of Chicago, but nobody wants to talk about the severe number of black on black shootings in a crime ridden gun controlled hell hole. They're not shooting eachother because they're smoking weed or trying to pop someone whos holding to take it themselves, this is all some people know and will ever know and no amount of policing or gentrification would stop that. As for the more covered personal stories of people being killed accidentally or through some spurt of mental illness, again no matter how you control it things like it will keep popping up; best course of action is and has always been to control who gets their hands on it.

Detroit is right however, the over policing of cannabis in America does not help.

 

Little Chicago shooting stat website, http://heyjackass.com/

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Think you're looking too much in to being drugged up Webbo,

 

In regards to the Chicago shootings, these are mostly gang related. No end of 14 year olds being shot on street corners for no reason other than a dispute and this happens in one of the strictest areas for gun laws. It's definitely more of a criminal problem than a gun problem in the gang ridden neighbourhoods of Chicago, but nobody wants to talk about the severe number of black on black shootings in a crime ridden gun controlled hell hole. They're not shooting eachother because they're smoking weed or trying to pop someone whos holding to take it themselves, this is all some people know and will ever know and no amount of policing or gentrification would stop that. As for the more covered personal stories of people being killed accidentally or through some spurt of mental illness, again no matter how you control it things like it will keep popping up; best course of action is and has always been to control who gets their hands on it.

Detroit is right however, the over policing of cannabis in America does not help.

 

Little Chicago shooting stat website, http://heyjackass.com/

I was just responding to the "if we ended the war on drugs this wouldn't happen" argument. I'm not against gun control either.

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I don't know why my name was brought up. I do not believe I posted anything prior to when it was. Drugs may be related to gang warfare and gun crimes but that does not take away the fact hat firearms are easy to get hold of. We are not just talking about hand pistols kept locked in a cupboard. We are talking about assault rifles and machine guns that are readily available to almost anyone. If one store refuses to sell you one there will sure to be another that will sell it with very few questions. If restrictions were in place gang members would still obtain guns but there would be fewer outlets and they would be better traceable.

If mental health help was available then there would be less reason to take drugs and they would be less likely to obtain guns but would be unable to if access to them was made more difficult. There are many reasons for mass shootings. It cannot be blamed on one thing.

 

Why did you shoot them?

I don't like Mondays.

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Where did I refer to "locking" anyone up?

What other realistic option is there if you don't think the millions who suffer from mental illness should be allowed to live ordinary private lives? You can't monitor them all, can you? You'd have to lock them up.

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What other realistic option is there if you don't think the millions who suffer from mental illness should be allowed to live ordinary private lives? You can't monitor them all, can you? You'd have to lock them up.

 

If you walk into a public place (ie a school) and kill a load of people, yeah you should be locked up forever.

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You raise the question that strikes me - just how many people out there on on the streets have serious mental illness and why are they allowed  to roam so freely?

 

Very few, if any, incidents of mass murder or depraved cruelty are one-offs with no previous indications that those responsible might act in such a way - or already had done but on a much smaller scale. 

 

So why the lack of responsibility? When it comes to building road humps or mounting average speed cameras the authorities are right on the ball. Where mental illness is concerned, too often they're nowhere to be seen til it's too late.

1.) Poor understanding of mental health on a wide basis

2.) Lack of funding (due to above)

3.) Associated stigma (still)

4.) An ever growing society and culture that appears to be breading poor mental health

5.) Defining a 'serious' mental illness - it's not like chickenpox which is bloody obvious to see, unfortunately you only tend to notice quite how serious it is following actions, not beforehand.

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If you walk into a public place (ie a school) and kill a load of people, yeah you should be locked up forever.

Of course if anyone does that they should be punished, but Thracian's opinion is that nobody with a mental illness should be allowed to "roam free". There are millions of people with a mental illness. Aside from how immoral it would be to prevent people from living a normal life on the basis that they have a mental illness, I'm wondering how it would work in practical terms.

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What is classed as a mental illness? Agoraphobia? Paranoia? Delusions of grandeur? Obsessive compulsion disorder?

There are many conditions that would not normally lead to violent behavior but often the symptoms are not always visible and without the help and adequate  services some can be missed or overlooked.

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  • 1 year later...

It's get clear that the US needs to ban guns. It's also clear that it would take a colossal political effort to do so. 

 

If the economy isn't flying by the next election the democrats could absolutely run riot with a huge victory of they can find a half decent candidate. It might be the time to put gun control - by which I mean an all out ban and amendment to the 2nd amendment - firmly into the election mix. 

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3 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Really? :o

 

That's fvckin nuts if true. 

It was 12 by February 1st this year... https://www.abc15.com/news/data/school-shootings-in-u-s-when-where-each-shooting-has-occurred-in-2018

 

School shooting classed as a firearm being fired in school, so not always resulting in a death. 

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12 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Really? :o

 

That's fvckin nuts if true. 

 

When that mass shooting happened in Vegas there was a statistic that in the previous 365 days there had been an average of slightly more than one a day (bear in mind that there has to be at least four victims for it to even qualify as one).

 

Edit: An even better (worse?) statistic: the Vegas shooting was the 1,516th mass shooting in 1,735 days.

 

American society is seriously fvcked up.

Edited by Buce
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11 minutes ago, separator said:

It was 12 by February 1st this year... https://www.abc15.com/news/data/school-shootings-in-u-s-when-where-each-shooting-has-occurred-in-2018

 

School shooting classed as a firearm being fired in school, so not always resulting in a death. 

 

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

When that mass shooting happened in Vegas there was a statistic that in the previous 365 days there had been an average of slightly more than one a day (bear in mind that there has to be at least four victims for it to even qualify as one).

 

Edit: An even better (worse?) statistic: the Vegas shooting was the 1,516th mass shooting in 1,735 days.

 

American society is seriously fvcked up.

I know America is a big place but I just can't get my head around those stats. 

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