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21 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

For me if I was to rent properties out, If it was an area like Leicester near to a uni etc I'd smash them in multiple occupancy and go let out to students or a room by room basis in a flat share for young professionals. I was being charged £80/£90 per week in my student houses, each with anywhere from 4 people upwards. In my final year we each paid around £320 a month, in a 4 person house rented for around a year, you're hitting a decent sum a month. 

HMO's are notoriously hard work and risky. Yes, your monthly income is good but the expenditure, regulation and Landlord responsibilty is significantly increased, as is the hassle. It's not for the inexperienced or faint hearted.

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13 minutes ago, Rob1742 said:

I have 30 properties, but I am not trying to bankrupt anyone.

 

All the tenants I have either can’t afford a deposit to buy their own homes, or they choose not to have the commitment, so there isn’t anything wrong with people buying houses to rent out to enable people to live in nice houses. 

 

Take the landlord out of the equation, where will these people live? Builders would suffer too as they would be reluctant to buy houses wondering if there are people able to afford them.

 

Get rid of landlords and you put huge pressure on governments to provide, which can only result in high taxes. 

 

Landlords aren’t all what you read in the newspaper. If you make 4% net per year you are doing well, and that is if you don’t have a mortgage. If you have to borrow money to buy the houses, then you really are relying on market growth to give you a return. 
 

I am still chasing a debt of £14,000 from a tenant who knew the system and knew what he was doing, leaving the property 15 minutes before the bailiff turned up. I have just managed to get £4500 from another tenant after a court battle where they just upped and left without any thought for the landlord or the way they left the house.

 

Oh yes, I had another debt last year where a tenant had issues. Again a big cost, but as they were so open I took the hit and helped them out.

 

So it’s not like monopoly I am afraid, and the government are making it much tougher for landlords to make a return, but if we weren’t there you can only wonder what would happen.

 

Just another thing, over the last few years I have had many conversations with builders who have wanted me to buy houses quickly to enable them to get money in to build others. I have also taken part exchange houses off them too as they have needed cash quickly to enable them to build more. Yes I have got benefits out of it if a few grand here and there, but it has ensured the builders have built more houses and homeowners have had houses to move into.

 

Be careful what you wish for, as getting rid of landlords really would put huge pressure on government ( tax payers) as I can’t see the banks wanting to take the risks like they did before 
 

 

Great post, landlords are constantly demonised and have very little protection from the government. The vast majority just want a small investment for the future and want own a property that they would be happy to live in themselves.

 

There are some fairly bad stories of HMO's, sublets etc but this is not a reflection on the industry as a whole.

 

For those that complain about property prices etc, one way the government could assist is by ensuring that new build properties are not sold to investors by way of planning conditions. There is already the affordable requirement on developments that works well. But if the other 2/3 bed propeties were not snapped up by Buy to Let investors this would assist with first time buyers looking for a starter home.

 

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22 minutes ago, kenny said:

Great post, landlords are constantly demonised and have very little protection from the government. The vast majority just want a small investment for the future and want own a property that they would be happy to live in themselves.

 

There are some fairly bad stories of HMO's, sublets etc but this is not a reflection on the industry as a whole.

 

For those that complain about property prices etc, one way the government could assist is by ensuring that new build properties are not sold to investors by way of planning conditions. There is already the affordable requirement on developments that works well. But if the other 2/3 bed propeties were not snapped up by Buy to Let investors this would assist with first time buyers looking for a starter home.

 

Every industry has bad eggs, just as every football team has supporters that let the side down and we're all labelled hooligans!. The minority always generate a bad reputation for the majority.

 

Unfortunately, there is a perception of easy money to be made by being a Landlord. In reality being a good Landlord is quite hard work and it's certainly not easy money, being a bad one is probably entirely different.

 

Although buying is a lot more difficult today, which forces people to rent, lots of people have good reasons for wanting to rent. Where do the people who can't buy or don't want to buy live?

 

It's a constant conundrum because lots of FTB's do get out purchased by BTL investors but the market does need both to function.

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1 hour ago, FoyleFox said:

HMO's are notoriously hard work and risky. Yes, your monthly income is good but the expenditure, regulation and Landlord responsibilty is significantly increased, as is the hassle. It's not for the inexperienced or faint hearted.

I can imagine they're hard work initially with regulation etc, but the landlord responsibility I don't fully buy given the experiences I've had. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, kenny said:

Great post, landlords are constantly demonised and have very little protection from the government. The vast majority just want a small investment for the future and want own a property that they would be happy to live in themselves.

 

There are some fairly bad stories of HMO's, sublets etc but this is not a reflection on the industry as a whole.

 

For those that complain about property prices etc, one way the government could assist is by ensuring that new build properties are not sold to investors by way of planning conditions. There is already the affordable requirement on developments that works well. But if the other 2/3 bed propeties were not snapped up by Buy to Let investors this would assist with first time buyers looking for a starter home.

 

I generally don't trust landlords as out of the 3 I've had, 2 were bloody awful.

My ceiling partly caved in, due to a leak in the flat above, that took 6 months from initial complaint to actually being fixed. At one point they removed half the ceiling tiles and I had a bucket just collecting the dripping all day. So I'm weary on them all in general. 

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Regulations and requirements are ongoing as a Landlord, and increased for a HMO.

Sadly UF21,you appear to have experienced the in it for the easy money type with little regard to tenant welfare or happiness. I would be ashamed to treat my tenants as appallingly.

A bad experiences with a cowboy builder or shody garage doesn't make all builders or mechanics the same but it certainly tars your view.

It works both ways though as per Rob's post, there are many bad tenants too. I read quite a lot of Landlord forums and frankly it would definitely put you off ever considering it.

Edited by FoyleFox
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On 09/07/2020 at 15:49, UniFox21 said:

For me if I was to rent properties out, If it was an area like Leicester near to a uni etc I'd smash them in multiple occupancy and go let out to students or a room by room basis in a flat share for young professionals. I was being charged £80/£90 per week in my student houses, each with anywhere from 4 people upwards. In my final year we each paid around £320 a month, in a 4 person house rented for around a year, you're hitting a decent sum a month. 

If you follow all the rules HMOs are not worth the hassle at all. The 1 or 2 bed flat market is much easier for rental overall.

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On 10/07/2020 at 12:59, Rob1742 said:

I have 30 properties, but I am not trying to bankrupt anyone.

 

All the tenants I have either can’t afford a deposit to buy their own homes, or they choose not to have the commitment, so there isn’t anything wrong with people buying houses to rent out to enable people to live in nice houses. 

 

Take the landlord out of the equation, where will these people live? Builders would suffer too as they would be reluctant to buy houses wondering if there are people able to afford them.

 

Get rid of landlords and you put huge pressure on governments to provide, which can only result in high taxes. 

 

Landlords aren’t all what you read in the newspaper. If you make 4% net per year you are doing well, and that is if you don’t have a mortgage. If you have to borrow money to buy the houses, then you really are relying on market growth to give you a return. 
 

I am still chasing a debt of £14,000 from a tenant who knew the system and knew what he was doing, leaving the property 15 minutes before the bailiff turned up. I have just managed to get £4500 from another tenant after a court battle where they just upped and left without any thought for the landlord or the way they left the house.

 

Oh yes, I had another debt last year where a tenant had issues. Again a big cost, but as they were so open I took the hit and helped them out.

 

So it’s not like monopoly I am afraid, and the government are making it much tougher for landlords to make a return, but if we weren’t there you can only wonder what would happen.

 

Just another thing, over the last few years I have had many conversations with builders who have wanted me to buy houses quickly to enable them to get money in to build others. I have also taken part exchange houses off them too as they have needed cash quickly to enable them to build more. Yes I have got benefits out of it if a few grand here and there, but it has ensured the builders have built more houses and homeowners have had houses to move into.

 

Be careful what you wish for, as getting rid of landlords really would put huge pressure on government ( tax payers) as I can’t see the banks wanting to take the risks like they did before 
 

 

Some fair comments Rob, I'm sure you're not trying to bankrupt anyone. Likewise I know plenty of people who have treated houses like shit on both sides of the fence. It bugs me a lot because I have devoted my adult life to learning about buildings and I see value in every brick and in every piece of timber. 


The one thing I will say though is that you must surely realise that in owning 30 properties you have contributed to inflating the market. 

 

As an example of my point, the price of houses in the area I live in has grown significantly in recent years because they are all being used as HMOs. We all need somewhere to live and you can argue about the dynamics of location and types of suitable housing in the appropriate places (it's a valid point), but that does not detract from the fact that if it weren't for landlords buying them, the prices wouldn't be so high and a number of them at least would be in the hands of first time buyers. And some of those FTBs would be the very people who are renting in those HMOs but can't afford to buy yet.

 

It's tough for a lot of people at the minute and I'm not having a go but to my original point, the government is now giving tax relief to landlords such as yourself if you want to buy another property. What do renters get? A guarantee they can't be evicted until the end of August. Ah, ok, cool. What a help. 

 

 

 

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A question for those buying, if you register with the Estate Agencies are you receiving information on more properties than just those listed on the mainstream portals? To date, we've only been looking via the 4 main portals, on a couple of occasions we've looked at an agents site direct and there have been properties listed, albeit SSTC that we've not seen previously.

As we weren't ready to buy and didn't want to be inudated with emails, we'd not registered but I'm looking to get ours on the market now (intended to call Agents today but forgot it was Bank Holiday) and if registering gets more property options I'll do it. It would be usefult to know what to expect.

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15 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

A question for those buying, if you register with the Estate Agencies are you receiving information on more properties than just those listed on the mainstream portals? To date, we've only been looking via the 4 main portals, on a couple of occasions we've looked at an agents site direct and there have been properties listed, albeit SSTC that we've not seen previously.

As we weren't ready to buy and didn't want to be inudated with emails, we'd not registered but I'm looking to get ours on the market now (intended to call Agents today but forgot it was Bank Holiday) and if registering gets more property options I'll do it. It would be usefult to know what to expect.

When we were buying in a really competitive market, we found that the best thing to do was to 'make friends' with the local estate agents. This meant they gave us a heads up on properties that were coming on the market, and even got in the odd viewing before a property went live on rightmove. 

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On 10/07/2020 at 12:59, Rob1742 said:

All the tenants I have either can’t afford a deposit to buy their own homes

 

The lack of availability due to landlords buying up a significant portion of the market is a key reason for inflated house prices and why many people can't afford to own their own homes.

 

I think there is a place for private landlords but let's call a spade a spade 

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21 minutes ago, rachhere said:

When we were buying in a really competitive market, we found that the best thing to do was to 'make friends' with the local estate agents. This meant they gave us a heads up on properties that were coming on the market, and even got in the odd viewing before a property went live on rightmove. 

I've definitely adopted that approach previously, unfortunately, it's a bit trickier if you're 500 miles and a plane journey away. A few friendly phone calls isn't out of the question though :).

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8 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

I've definitely adopted that approach previously, unfortunately, it's a bit trickier if you're 500 miles and a plane journey away. A few friendly phone calls isn't out of the question though :).

Er yes, I see the challenge! Definitely phone up so they get to know you. I guess it depends on how competitive a market you are looking at, but just thinking of the experience of our sale -  we had multiple bids but in the end went for a couple from London (locating up to Birmingham). The estate agents had gotten to know well and were able to testify for them how keen they were to move, which gave us the assurance we needed. 

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I've no idea if we're looking at properties in a competitive sector, were certainly not in the traditional family house market albeit we do want 3/4 bed detatched but nothing urban, school catchment isn't relevant either. Location isn't really fixed, a village somewhere West Leicestershire. To date, I've just been monitoring suitable properties on the portals. Although, some we think are great have been listed for ages and other similar ones go quickly. A friendly conversation with a few agents might help to establish how popular the market is in our sector.

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3 hours ago, FoyleFox said:

A question for those buying, if you register with the Estate Agencies are you receiving information on more properties than just those listed on the mainstream portals? To date, we've only been looking via the 4 main portals, on a couple of occasions we've looked at an agents site direct and there have been properties listed, albeit SSTC that we've not seen previously.

As we weren't ready to buy and didn't want to be inudated with emails, we'd not registered but I'm looking to get ours on the market now (intended to call Agents today but forgot it was Bank Holiday) and if registering gets more property options I'll do it. It would be usefult to know what to expect.


Today is a bank holiday! Bastards! I’ve just finished work!!

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48 minutes ago, stix said:


Today is a bank holiday! Bastards! I’ve just finished work!!

Yup. Today is an official BH but everyone is off tomorrow as well. Northern Ireland has lots more BH days than England. We get the Republic of Ireland holidays too. Don't be too envious, it's always raining so you can't actually enjoy them.

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22 hours ago, ajthefox said:

 

Some fair comments Rob, I'm sure you're not trying to bankrupt anyone. Likewise I know plenty of people who have treated houses like shit on both sides of the fence. It bugs me a lot because I have devoted my adult life to learning about buildings and I see value in every brick and in every piece of timber. 


The one thing I will say though is that you must surely realise that in owning 30 properties you have contributed to inflating the market. 

 

As an example of my point, the price of houses in the area I live in has grown significantly in recent years because they are all being used as HMOs. We all need somewhere to live and you can argue about the dynamics of location and types of suitable housing in the appropriate places (it's a valid point), but that does not detract from the fact that if it weren't for landlords buying them, the prices wouldn't be so high and a number of them at least would be in the hands of first time buyers. And some of those FTBs would be the very people who are renting in those HMOs but can't afford to buy yet.

 

It's tough for a lot of people at the minute and I'm not having a go but to my original point, the government is now giving tax relief to landlords such as yourself if you want to buy another property. What do renters get? A guarantee they can't be evicted until the end of August. Ah, ok, cool. What a help. 

 

 

 

1. Can you let me know what the tax relief I am getting that you mention, because I am not aware of it? 

 

2. The houses I have purchased have been in large developments, and I have only purchased at the end of each phase, and any houses that first time buyers have not taken. So, the first time buyers had their chances before I did, I haven’t taken any homes they were going to buy, I have taken homes they have not wanted or been able to buy. The houses I have purchased have helped the cash flow of the builders in order for them to build elsewhere. 
 

I have been a first time buyer, I have been a renter, I have been a landlord so I am able to see all sides to this. 

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12 hours ago, Houdini Logic said:

The lack of availability due to landlords buying up a significant portion of the market is a key reason for inflated house prices and why many people can't afford to own their own homes.

 

I think there is a place for private landlords but let's call a spade a spade 

This, and you get trapped renting for years when you don't want it. I got my first place about 12 months ago, after many years renting. Took ages to save a deposit up, because I was giving a good portion of my wages away in rent each month. That money serviced someone else's mortgage instead of my own.

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10 hours ago, Rob1742 said:

1. Can you let me know what the tax relief I am getting that you mention, because I am not aware of it? 

 

 

The stamp duty holiday applies to landlords as well, you will now only have to pay the 3% surcharge on anything up to £500k. That's up to £15k saving. Sunak's announcement was great news for landlords, the first big tax relief in years.

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Sherrif Fatman started out in business as a granny farmer
He was infamous for fifteen minutes
And he appeared on Panorama
Then he somehow got on board a Starship Enterprise Allowance Scheme
With a Prince of Wales Award
For pushing Valium and amphetamines
Moving Up on Second Base
With Nicholas Van what's His Face
At six foot six
And 100 Tons
The undisputed King of the Slums
With more alias' than Klaus Barbie
Master Butcher of Leigh on Sea
Just about to take the stage
The one and only - hold the front page
Fatman's got something to sell
To Leicester's homeless
A Crossroad's Motel
For the No Fixed Abodeless
Where you can live life in style
If you sleep in a closet
And if you flash him a smile
He'll take your teeth as deposit
There's bats in the belfrey
The windows are jammed
The toilet's ain't healthy
He don't give a damn
Just chuckles and smiles
Laughs like a madman
A born again Rachman
Here comes Sherrif Fatman
With his Valium, amphetamines
Sicknotes and his phoney prescriptions
Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the kitchen
Dead heads and cracked heads
Bunk beds and breakfasts
Wake up you sleepyheads
Check this
Moving up on second base
With Nicholas Van Whatshis face
At six foot six
And 100 tons
The undisputed King of the Slums
With more alias' than Klaus Barbie
The Master Butcher of Leigh on Sea
Just about to take the stage
The only and only hold the front page
Edited by boots60
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30 minutes ago, boots60 said:
Sherrif Fatman started out in business as a granny farmer
He was infamous for fifteen minutes
And he appeared on Panorama
Then he somehow got on board a Starship Enterprise Allowance Scheme
With a Prince of Wales Award
For pushing Valium and amphetamines
Moving Up on Second Base
With Nicholas Van what's His Face
At six foot six
And 100 Tons
The undisputed King of the Slums
With more alias' than Klaus Barbie
Master Butcher of Leigh on Sea
Just about to take the stage
The one and only - hold the front page
Fatman's got something to sell
To Leicester's homeless
A Crossroad's Motel
For the No Fixed Abodeless
Where you can live life in style
If you sleep in a closet
And if you flash him a smile
He'll take your teeth as deposit
There's bats in the belfrey
The windows are jammed
The toilet's ain't healthy
He don't give a damn
Just chuckles and smiles
Laughs like a madman
A born again Rachman
Here comes Sherrif Fatman
With his Valium, amphetamines
Sicknotes and his phoney prescriptions
Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the kitchen
Dead heads and cracked heads
Bunk beds and breakfasts
Wake up you sleepyheads
Check this
Moving up on second base
With Nicholas Van Whatshis face
At six foot six
And 100 tons
The undisputed King of the Slums
With more alias' than Klaus Barbie
The Master Butcher of Leigh on Sea
Just about to take the stage
The only and only hold the front page

:nigel:

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Everyone who hasn't got a house or who only has one likes to hate landlords.

The current situation where houses in much of the country are unaffordable for most people on average incomes is the making of successive governments.

At one time a large proportion of the housing stock was in the hands of the public sector which had no interest in the market value of their property. Councils and other housing authorities were only interested in balancing the books, receiving enough money in rent to maintain their own housing stock and build new houses for rent.

The Thatcher government changed all that by allowing tenants to buy the properties they lived in. While this was welcomed by council house tenants able to buy their house for a discount, it left councils with a steadily shrinking and undesirable estate of the houses nobody wanted to buy. Private landlords have taken up the slack by buying for rent and renting to those who cannot afford to buy.

The value of property is now of crucial significance and it is no surprise that the cost of housing has continued to spiral upwards into affordability.

Selling off council houses was a doctrinaire decision which was popular at the time but has done nothing to establish sustainability in the housing market.

A fair and not doctrinaire solution would have been to allow sales, but to use the money to build more property to rent to replenish the public housing stock. If new public housing was sold after say twenty years, with a preference to the occupier, it would do two things. It would enable thousands of people who had rented, probably because they couldn't afford to buy when they were younger, to buy later in life. And it would also put the onus on councils to build attractive and desirable property so that they would get a decent return when the time came to sell on. It would also avoid the situation in Leicester and many other larger cities where the remaining public housing stock is ageing, can't be sold and needs expensive maintenance. 

Another issue which requires action is to remove foreign investors from the housing market. In many developed countries foreign investors just aren't allowed to buy domestic property unless they are going to live in it themselves. Some of this money might just end up in areas of the economy which create jobs for the rest of us. Short-term rentals are also an issue in some areas. Places like Edinburgh and Bath would benefit from proper regulation of AirBnB and other likewise properties. A reasonable taxation system and regulation regime that controls the numbers and puts the money back into housing people who live and work locally would help.

Rob1742s contri is interesting, honest and informative. Like the rest of us he is trying to make a living and it looks like he makes quite a good one. But he still has to operate within the constraints of an economic system which is not of his making and does not operate in the interests of the majority of the population. He also has to carry the risk that every now and again he ends up with a bad tenant who doesn't pay the rent or trashes the property.

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4 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

There's plenty on moneysupermarket? Rates aren't too good but they are there and available.

They’re nearly all are family assist mortgages or for stair casing. 

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