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Vacamion

President Trump & the USA

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11 minutes ago, murphy said:

Have any of these attention seeking morons protesting with their balloons considered the consequences of their pathetic actions do you suppose?  

 

The American public will be seething when they see their democratically elected president mocked and ridiculed on a state visit.  And Trump himself?  Do you think this will make him reconsider his more controversial policies or will it just make him resent us at a time when we need all the friends and goodwill we can get, especially from the US.

 

Whatever people might think of Trump, IMO this juvenile little street party is just a massive insult to America itself.

Good. They deserve it.  They voted for this tit. Not that they give a hoot what anyone else in the word thinks.

Edited by Jattdogg
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And why the hell should they?  We don't have the right to tell them who to vote for, even if you don't like him.  And why would you wish to disrespect our closest ally?

 

They deserve it because they voted for someone that you don't like?  Grow up.

 

I am sure that if we had a state visit from Asaad for instance, these brain dead, look-at-me, virtue signalling children would stay at home

 

This little protest won't harm Trump one bit however, it will only harm the UK. 

 

Bellends.

 

 

Edited by murphy
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2 hours ago, murphy said:

And why the hell should they?  We don't have the right to tell them who to vote for, even if you don't like him.  And why would you wish to disrespect our closest ally?

 

They deserve it because they voted for someone that you don't like?  Grow up.

 

I am sure that if we had a state visit from Asaad for instance, these brain dead, look-at-me, virtue signalling children would stay at home

 

This little protest won't harm Trump one bit however, it will only harm the UK. 

 

Bellends.

 

 

 

If people can't take the idea that their elected leaders should have to face public criticism now and again, then frankly they're the ones who need to grow up. It comes with the turf.

 

If your best mate's acting like a monumental bellend, you tell him.

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7 hours ago, murphy said:

Have any of these attention seeking morons protesting with their balloons considered the consequences of their pathetic actions do you suppose?  

 

The American public will be seething when they see their democratically elected president mocked and ridiculed on a state visit.  And Trump himself?  Do you think this will make him reconsider his more controversial policies or will it just make him resent us at a time when we need all the friends and goodwill we can get, especially from the US.

 

Whatever people might think of Trump, IMO this juvenile little street party is just a massive insult to America itself.

 

You make the mistake of thinking all American citizens support Trump - that is clearly not the case, there are plenty of demonstrations in his own country.

 

Will the demo’s do much... probably not, Trump largely ignores these things, as leaders have to - having a thick skin and steadfast belief is part of the job. Yet if protest never worked, women wouldn’t have the vote and you’d still have separate seating arrangements on buses.

 

However, to use a strawmen to provide perspective, there’s a long standing history in this country of public protests at the visits of people like Pinochet and Chinese dignitary visits. 

 

Lets face it, if one can protest at a person pleading guilty of Contempt of Court and facing those concequences, one can protest at whatever they want - regardless of how silly you may view either.

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7 hours ago, murphy said:

Have any of these attention seeking morons protesting with their balloons considered the consequences of their pathetic actions do you suppose?  

 

The American public will be seething when they see their democratically elected president mocked and ridiculed on a state visit.  And Trump himself?  Do you think this will make him reconsider his more controversial policies or will it just make him resent us at a time when we need all the friends and goodwill we can get, especially from the US.

 

Whatever people might think of Trump, IMO this juvenile little street party is just a massive insult to America itself.

Hopefully the majority of the American public actually are possessed of reasonable intelligence (they are) and can differentiate between a snub against the nation itself and (this is the correct one) a snub against the current administration running it - if they aren't and take it as a direct insult to the US, well that's their fault for not understanding the nuance. Besides, the dividing lines are very very well drawn over there already, this stunt is going to do very little to change their minds.

 

Additionally, this administration are going to try to dominate/mess with the UK and do those controversial policies no matter what we do, their entire schtick is "America First" and doing what they want where they want and damn the international consequences. Mocking them in this fashion from that perspective doesn't actually do much really tbh, beyond showing the rest of the world that we too disapprove of what they're doing.

 

46 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

If people can't take the idea that their elected leaders should have to face public criticism now and again, then frankly they're the ones who need to grow up. It comes with the turf.

 

If your best mate's acting like a monumental bellend, you tell him.

 

This.

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5 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

You make the mistake of thinking all American citizens support Trump - that is clearly not the case, there are plenty of demonstrations in his own country.

 

Will the demo’s do much... probably not, Trump largely ignores these things, as leaders have to - having a thick skin and steadfast belief is part of the job. Yet if protest never worked, women wouldn’t have the vote and you’d still have separate seating arrangements on buses.

 

However, to use a strawmen to provide perspective, there’s a long standing history in this country of public protests at the visits of people like Pinochet and Chinese dignitary visits. 

 

Lets face it, if one can protest at a person pleading guilty of Contempt of Court and facing those concequences, one can protest at whatever they want - regardless of how silly you may view either.

On the contrary, I agree.  He has many critics at home.  However, there is a big difference between their right to criticise and ours.  The US public will not take kindly to this.

 

My main point is that as head of state, Trump represents America on this visit.  We disrespect him and we disrespect the nation and the office of president. 

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11 minutes ago, murphy said:

On the contrary, I agree.  He has many critics at home.  However, there is a big difference between their right to criticise and ours.  The US public will not take kindly to this.

 

My main point is that as head of state, Trump represents America on this visit.  We disrespect him and we disrespect the nation and the office of president. 

 

So what - as a nation we should be proud and bold enough to disrespect whoever we choose - including our own head of state.

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1 hour ago, murphy said:

On the contrary, I agree.  He has many critics at home.  However, there is a big difference between their right to criticise and ours.  The US public will not take kindly to this.

 

My main point is that as head of state, Trump represents America on this visit.  We disrespect him and we disrespect the nation and the office of president. 

Have you not seen today's Sun front page? British people have no right to criticise a man who insists on having an opinion on almost anything that's going on in our country?

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27 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

Its also worth remembering America has a written constitution enshrining Freedom of Speech.

 

So although some US citizens may not like the UK protests towards Trump, they should fight to the death for our right to make them. 

 

Mic drop ? 

No one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to protest, they are just pointing what hypocritical selfish bellends they are. (Although there doesn't seem to be many there anyway so most appear to have seen sense)

 

The balloon is just absolutely pathetic, I'm embarrassed for the organisers watching it.

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22 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Its also worth remembering America has a written constitution enshrining Freedom of Speech.

 

So although some US citizens may not like the UK protests towards Trump, they should fight to the death for our right to make them. 

 

Mic drop ? 

And freedom of speech gives me the right to criticise these protesters.

 

We are not Americans.  He is not our president.  Criticism and especially ridicule from a foreign nation will more likely have the effect of making the US public rally round their president and against us. 

 

If we can just forget Trump the man for a moment, my point is that we are insulting the nation and office he represents when we offer a state visit to the president and then ridicule him in the streets.  I suppose I find it bad manners.  I also find it juvenile and counter productive to our own interests to piss the US off at this time.

 

Don't confuse my feelings for support for Trump, that is not the case.  I just think we should show respect and courtesy to our guest.

 

I'm going round in circles now saying the same thing so I'll leave it there.

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7 minutes ago, murphy said:

And freedom of speech gives me the right to criticise these protesters.

 

We are not Americans.  He is not our president.  Criticism and especially ridicule from a foreign nation will more likely have the effect of making the US public rally round their president and against us. 

 

If we can just forget Trump the man for a moment, my point is that we are insulting the nation and office he represents when we offer a state visit to the president and then ridicule him in the streets.  I suppose I find it bad manners.  I also find it juvenile and counter productive to our own interests to piss the US off at this time.

 

Don't confuse my feelings for support for Trump, that is not the case.  I just think we should show respect and courtesy to our guest.

 

I'm going round in circles now saying the same thing so I'll leave it there.

That's the whole point - this is all about Trump, not about the US per se, and conflating the two is incorrect.

 

But yes, this discussion is getting circular now so best to leave it at that.

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@murphy

 

Ask yourself are you criticising the protest or trying to enforce your opinion on others? 

 

Your call for respect suggests you don’t think people should be allowed to protest? 

 

When does a country’s self interest become less important that a point of principle?

 

Should we as a nation accept everything another country does if we stand to gain from it ourselves? 

 

At what point do you think protest against another countries national leader becomes legitimate? 

 

What threshold has to be reached? Or is there not one - should we be courteous to all World leaders? 

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11 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

@murphy

 

Ask yourself are you criticising the protest or trying to enforce your opinion on others? 

I'm calling them bellends.  I'm not forcing you to call them bellends.

 

Your call for respect suggests you don’t think people should be allowed to protest? 

Strange thing to infer.  Yes I am calling for some respect for the state visit.  Banning a protest would be even worse.

 

When does a country’s self interest become less important that a point of principle?

What principle?

 

Should we as a nation accept everything another country does if we stand to gain from it ourselves? 

Of course not.  Have never suggested such.

 

At what point do you think protest against another countries national leader becomes legitimate? 

If we have a legitimate grievance with that country, such as the Japanese POW veterans protest,  rather than disapproving of the way it runs it's own affairs.

 

 

 

Quote

What threshold has to be reached? Or is there not one - should we be courteous to all World leaders? 

I think we should show respect to our friends and allies  We would hardly give a state visit to Asaad.  For instance, I have many grievances with China, particularly regarding animal welfare.  We can protest and criticise, but during a state visit I think we should show the country and it's leader respect.  Lets be honest, with Trump it is abuse and ridicule.

 

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1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

"If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway..."

 

"All over, people changing their votes along with their overcoats"

 

"Why not phone up Robin Hood [or JC?] and ask him for some wealth distribution?"

 

In before @Sharpe's Fox ;)

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5 hours ago, murphy said:

We don't have the right to tell them who to vote for, even if you don't like him.  And why would you wish to disrespect our closest ally?

Trump doesn't have the right to comment on a hard brexit or Boris making a good PM when he's on a visit to the UK.

Certainly no president in the past has applied pressure like this.

 

Trump is happy to show a lack of respect to Merkel, NATO and now May, he's pissing off all of his countries allies.

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1 hour ago, murphy said:

 

At what point do you think protest against another countries national leader becomes legitimate? 

If we have a legitimate grievance with that country, such as the Japanese POW veterans protest,  rather than disapproving of the way it runs it's own affairs.

 

It's not just the way that America runs its own affairs, he's going out of his way to alienate Europe & NATO and it seems he'd prefer to be allied to Putin. If Obama had cosied up to Russia the way Trump is he would have been assassinated by and alt-right loon. Instead they're all blindly licking his arse.

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Trump has no problem disrespecting one of his closest allies and best friends here in Canada. Our economies are so intertwined via NAFTA  and yet you get this tw@t calling our leader dishonest and weak (side note put some gloves on donald seeing as you always talk about fighting because justin would knock your arse out....just saying lol).

 

His use of an old law to basically call Canada (of all nations) a national security threat meanwhile this dick hangs with Putin and kim jong un is laughable. 

 

I know not all americans voted for him but he is the President.  He was allowed (voted) to run for office and win, simple as that. Seeing as most of his senators have no balls and kiss his arse to serve their own reelection interests at the expense of ruining relations with the whole "western" world i have no respect for any of them or this current administration.

 

Was in Niagara falls yesterday with the kids/wife and felt so proud to be Canadian (when gazing across the border).  No i wont be going across that border again until my friends in the states wake up. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Calling Trump "democratically elected" is offensive to the word democracy lol

 

The man was out voted by 3 million, and won because of our archaic election system. Not to mention that his campaign conspired with a foreign power to win said election.

 

His approval rating is sitting at about 42%. So protests may offend 42% of Americans, but very supported by the vast majority. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Detroit Blues said:

Calling Trump "democratically elected" is offensive to the word democracy lol

 

The man was out voted by 3 million, and won because of our archaic election system. Not to mention that his campaign conspired with a foreign power to win said election.

 

His approval rating is sitting at about 42%. So protests may offend 42% of Americans, but very supported by the vast majority. 

 

 

I dont discount this at all. I am somewhat smart enough to know that much (although my responses should show up in the pedantry thread lol).

 

 I just hope you guys find a way to get those swing voters over to the other side once you have a decent candidate. Heck even if you had a better Republican candidate i dont care.

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People absolutely have the right to protest, he’s a terrible statesman but it’s actually a bit shit really isn’t it? There’s been so much discussion over something relatively  minor 

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1 hour ago, MattP said:

30 grand for this, pretty sure someone has taken a decent consultancy fee.

 

IMG_20180713_124228.jpg

Yep.

 

289c0fbb-b65b-4800-a4fc-809c922ea31e.jpg

 

d2045f67-8774-4496-a060-b432d26f4b6c.jpg

 

That being said, failure to acknowledge that the policies that Trump puts forward do have support from the fearful, the pious, or the entirely self-interested was the reason he had the chance to get elected in the first place (and won thanks to the quirks of the US electoral system) so matters of policy need to be put forward rather than just attacking the character of the guy when the time comes.

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