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President Trump & the USA

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29 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t understand how he can just keep calling things that actually happen, fake news and get away with it. It’s both hilarious and mental.

Trump is one of those old rich dudes that is too old to give a fuk about what he says. Is what it is and you all can kiss his arse. Lol basically sums it up.

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4 minutes ago, Buce said:

Cherry picking again, Matt.

 

It's interesting that once again the division between young and old is stark.

Can't get my head around that divide either, older people more inclined to think he was wrong to speak out on Brexit which is strange given he's very pro.

 

Maybe older people are more inclined to think foreign leaders should show more respect for nationhood. 

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Disgusting how President Trump has been treated on this visit 

 

we may not agree with some of his views and behaviours but all those soap dodging lefties out on the streets of london is an embarrassment to this country ! 

 

Where were all those people when Theresa May was destroying the NHS , deporting the Windrush generation etc... 

 

we will need trump and America after March 2019 ! 

 

Appaling behaviour 

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5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Can't get my head around that divide either, older people more inclined to think he was wrong to speak out on Brexit which is strange given he's very pro.

 

Maybe older people are more inclined to think foreign leaders should show more respect for nationhood. 

That is an interesting thing. Shows that it's a bit more complex than is often made out - perhaps the older folks that favour Brexit take the point of view that it's the UK's own business and he shouldn't be butting in either way?

 

Also interesting is that there are very few fence-sitters - the "undecideds" didn't make up much of the poll at all, which indicates just how polarising the guy is.

 

2 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

Disgusting how President Trump has been treated on this visit 

 

we may not agree with some of his views and behaviours but all those soap dodging lefties out on the streets of london is an embarrassment to this country ! 

 

Where were all those people when Theresa May was destroying the NHS , deporting the Windrush generation etc... 

 

we will need trump and America after March 2019 ! 

 

Appaling behaviour 

:dunno: The UK needs the US, it doesn't need this administration. They aren't one and the same no matter how much folks might say they are.

 

It's been mentioned here before, but proper friends tell each other when they feel one of them is screwing up.

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3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That is an interesting thing. Shows that it's a bit more complex than is often made out - perhaps the older folks that favour Brexit take the point of view that it's the UK's own business and he shouldn't be butting in either way?

 

Also interesting is that there are very few fence-sitters - the "undecideds" didn't make up much of the poll at all, which indicates just how polarising the guy is.

 

:dunno: The UK needs the US, it doesn't need this administration. They aren't one and the same no matter how much folks might say they are.

 

It's been mentioned here before, but proper friends tell each other when they feel one of them is screwing up.

That’s bull crap to be honest 

 

this administration can now enshrine laws that can last generations ! 

 

They will decide the terms of the trade agreement we need with them 

 

to treat the president like this is simply an idiots way to cut off your nose despite your face !

 

 

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5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

 

:dunno: The UK needs the US, it doesn't need this administration. They aren't one and the same no matter how much folks might say they are.

 

It's been mentioned here before, but proper friends tell each other when they feel one of them is screwing up.

So was Trump right to tell us we're screwing up Brexit?

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5 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

That’s bull crap to be honest 

 

this administration can now enshrine laws that can last generations ! 

 

They will decide the terms of the trade agreement we need with them 

 

to treat the president like this is simply an idiots way to cut off your nose despite your face !

 

 

3

 

And you call other people idiots.

 

Priceless. lol

Edited by Buce
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6 minutes ago, Webbo said:

So was Trump right to tell us we're screwing up Brexit?

Good point ?

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3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And you call other people idiots.

 

Priceless. lol

 

Yet you feel the need to engage 

 

brillaint ??

 

 

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3 minutes ago, NorthfieldsFox said:

That’s bull crap to be honest 

 

this administration can now enshrine laws that can last generations ! 

 

They will decide the terms of the trade agreement we need with them 

 

to treat the president like this is simply an idiots way to cut off your nose despite your face !

 

 

3

...and wrt to trade with the UK the next administration can remove them with the stroke of a pen and a few words at the next conference.

 

Sorry man, but you'll never get me wanting to welcome an administration that enables and emboldens supremacist movements back home, seeks to strip workplace protections from vulnerable demographics (amongst other legislation), and (potentially most damagingly) has zero respect for mankinds effect on the environment and the dire consequences that could result from it and overlooks good science in favour of increased religious influence.

 

The relationship with the US is long term. This administration won't be.

 

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

So was Trump right to tell us we're screwing up Brexit?

I'm not sure he sees anyone as a friend as opposed to a rival or subordinate tbh, but yeah, if he really believes that we are his friends and there's sincerity there (doubtful), then he's entirely welcome to speak his piece.

 

I can't speak for anyone else here but my distaste towards the guy on that topic isn't because he's poking his nose in, it's because I think he's trying to use Brexit for base purposes (viz. a more directly US-beneficial trade deal with the UK and more control in future, among other things).

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Decent article about Trump's foreign policy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/13/britain-donald-trump-europe-uk-brexit

 

He's not just some loudmouthed oaf. There's method to his madness. Indeed, though he tells lies day to day, he's quite honest about his overall strategy: "It's America First!"

 

"There is strategic method to his madness. In geopolitics, his targets are always the same: the forces of multilateralism, cooperation and international order, whether it’s Nato, the EU, the UN or even the G7. He wants to see those bodies weakened and destroyed, replaced by a dog-eat-dog world of single states, dealing with each other one-on-one. In that world, the US would be the biggest dog, and get to snarl and snap at all the rest".

 

There are good "America First" reasons why he'd prefer to negotiate a trade deal with medium-sized UK than with the EU, a bloc at least as economically powerful as the US.

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3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Decent article about Trump's foreign policy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/13/britain-donald-trump-europe-uk-brexit

 

He's not just some loudmouthed oaf. There's method to his madness. Indeed, though he tells lies day to day, he's quite honest about his overall strategy: "It's America First!"

 

"There is strategic method to his madness. In geopolitics, his targets are always the same: the forces of multilateralism, cooperation and international order, whether it’s Nato, the EU, the UN or even the G7. He wants to see those bodies weakened and destroyed, replaced by a dog-eat-dog world of single states, dealing with each other one-on-one. In that world, the US would be the biggest dog, and get to snarl and snap at all the rest".

 

There are good "America First" reasons why he'd prefer to negotiate a trade deal with medium-sized UK than with the EU, a bloc at least as economically powerful as the US.

Amazed more folks haven't picked up on this, really. It's exactly right.

 

And considering where the dog-eat-dog world of single states got us in the past I'm amazed that some people still think it's a good idea. Or maybe they don't and just want to see the world burn because they think they'll get the chance to be king of the ashes (good luck with that).

Edited by leicsmac
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Also...what on Earth is a reputable paper like the Telegraph doing giving print time to someone like Steve Bannon?

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49 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Also...what on Earth is a reputable paper like the Telegraph doing giving print time to someone like Steve Bannon?

Because we don't shut down people with disagree with here and the guy probably knows more about Trump and his campaign than anyone?

 

He had an interview in the Sunday Times as well last weekend which was a fascinating read, quality journalism means exploring different viewpoints. 

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2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Because we don't shut down people with disagree with here and the guy probably knows more about Trump and his campaign than anyone?

 

He had an interview in the Sunday Times as well last weekend which was a fascinating read, quality journalism means exploring different viewpoints. 

He's got multiple platforms he can use where he can get heard in the UK so I honestly don't get why the Telegraph felt the need to give him another; he's not being shut down.

 

I'm sure he has some interesting info on Trump and his campaign but tbh I'm always leery towards quality papers giving white supremacists (or any other kind of supremacist for that matter, but it is the white ones in the ascendancy in the US right now) print room beyond acknowledging they exist and pointing out just how destructive and divisive their views are.

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6 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Decent article about Trump's foreign policy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/13/britain-donald-trump-europe-uk-brexit

 

He's not just some loudmouthed oaf. There's method to his madness. Indeed, though he tells lies day to day, he's quite honest about his overall strategy: "It's America First!"

 

"There is strategic method to his madness. In geopolitics, his targets are always the same: the forces of multilateralism, cooperation and international order, whether it’s Nato, the EU, the UN or even the G7. He wants to see those bodies weakened and destroyed, replaced by a dog-eat-dog world of single states, dealing with each other one-on-one. In that world, the US would be the biggest dog, and get to snarl and snap at all the rest".

 

There are good "America First" reasons why he'd prefer to negotiate a trade deal with medium-sized UK than with the EU, a bloc at least as economically powerful as the US.

If he has any sense, he will give us a deal that can make us thrive outside the EU and then bait other countries into leaving the bloc.

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19 minutes ago, Strokes said:

If he has any sense, he will give us a deal that can make us thrive outside the EU and then bait other countries into leaving the bloc.

 

He's already encouraging the further disintegration of the EU so as to benefit the US. He recommended "Frexit" to Macron, praised Italian nationalism, undermined Merkel as leading EU power etc.

 

But it might be wishful thinking if you imagine him offering the UK a great deal to that end. For a start, he'll have probably already either been re-elected for his 2nd term or defeated by the time any deal is done.

 

More likely he'd use his strong negotiating position to bully us, when we're desperate for trade deals, into accepting terms massively beneficial to US exporters, the US economy and Trump voters in the US.

Granted, he'd have to offer us a few scraps to make it worth our while - but you can be pretty sure that any deal would be all about "America First", not "UK First as a subtle plan to undermine the EU over many years".

 

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2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

He's already encouraging the further disintegration of the EU so as to benefit the US. He recommended "Frexit" to Macron, praised Italian nationalism, undermined Merkel as leading EU power etc.

 

But it might be wishful thinking if you imagine him offering the UK a great deal to that end. For a start, he'll have probably already either been re-elected for his 2nd term or defeated by the time any deal is done.

 

More likely he'd use his strong negotiating position to bully us, when we're desperate for trade deals, into accepting terms massively beneficial to US exporters, the US economy and Trump voters in the US.

Granted, he'd have to offer us a few scraps to make it worth our while - but you can be pretty sure that any deal would be all about "America First", not "UK First as a subtle plan to undermine the EU over many years".

 

Not like the EU then?

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2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Not like the EU then?

 

I remember the days when you used to argue that the UK was in a strong Brexit negotiating position because of our trade deficit with the EU, German car makers needing to export cars to us, French wine exporters etc.

Whatever happened to that argument?

 

I've always argued that the EU was in a much stronger negotiating position than us - and that it would push for a deal much more beneficial to the EU than to the UK, particularly when its very existence is in some jeopardy. That's realpolitik.

You could describe it as bullying - or as bloody stupid by the UK to think that, from a weak negotiating position, it could somehow persuade the EU to offer us a leaving deal that would make us the envy of all other members.

 

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Apparently he shot two under his handicap playing golf at Turnberry today.

 

All in all a successful visit I’d say...

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29 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I remember the days when you used to argue that the UK was in a strong Brexit negotiating position because of our trade deficit with the EU, German car makers needing to export cars to us, French wine exporters etc.

Whatever happened to that argument?

 

I've always argued that the EU was in a much stronger negotiating position than us - and that it would push for a deal much more beneficial to the EU than to the UK, particularly when its very existence is in some jeopardy. That's realpolitik.

You could describe it as bullying - or as bloody stupid by the UK to think that, from a weak negotiating position, it could somehow persuade the EU to offer us a leaving deal that would make us the envy of all other members.

 

We're in a weak position because the establishment have been working against us from day one. MPs that stood on a manifesto of leaving the EU have tried to sabotage the negotiations from the start. If we had a PM with any balls we tell them to stuff their deal.

 

It beside the point anyway America obviously wants to do well out of any deal, as would anyone else.

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35 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Apparently he shot two under his handicap playing golf at Turnberry today.

 

All in all a successful visit I’d say...

1

 

As my teenage daughter is fond of saying, 'What does that even mean?'

 

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