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filthyfox

lied to by Politicians

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24 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

It's not about whether the writing on the bus was actually a promise, it was whether some people believed it was.

I don't think it was either. I think it's more the fact that we've got to a point in this country where many people are entirely non-plussed about facts getting buried under an avalanch of rumour and bullshit. 

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22 minutes ago, Strokes said:

But did he? And did he vote based on it? Sorry I'm not buying it.

I bet you it's just another bitter remainer.

Considering he felt the need to start this regarding lying politicians and his first point was the NHS money I'd guess he did believed it, but you'd have to ask him to be sure.

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1 minute ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

I'm with Strokes.  Cannot believe that anyone would have voted based on seeing a slogan on a bus.

Don't assume everyone voted for the same reason as you, or understood the campaign or the issues as well as you. It's actually really dumb to do so, as dumb as believing a slogan on a bus. I work for a bus company. Having spoken to a large chunk of the drivers there were quite a few who voted solely on the fact they wanted rid of the CPC course, a course that was brought in in conjunction with the EU. Problem is we fully agreed with it anyway and there are no plans to get rid of it. You might sit down and read things, take in facts from non biased sources and build an informed opinion. You may have enough brains to know that what Gove or Johnson put on a bus, or whatever bullshit Farage comes out with are not promises that the government have keep, but there are people out there who lap it all up, believe anything than confirms their already set in stone position, who will see a catchy slogan and a half truth and take it as gospel. 

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19 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

I'm with Strokes.  Cannot believe that anyone would have voted based on seeing a slogan on a bus.

Regrettably, I have to inform you that at least one person did, a friend of mine (who will remain nameless to spare him further embarrassment at believing such rubbish in the first place!). His reason was that the NHS is understaffed and under-funded. It's hard to argue against at least one or both of those points, and he believed the £350 million a week that we'd save from being a member of the EU (which itself is a lie, the true figure is closer to £250 million) would be better spent funding the NHS. Again, it's hard to argue against the NHS receiving this kind of money, but the difference being that my friend genuinely believed this was a pledge. In fairness to him, it wasn't the only reason he voted Leave and at least he is standing by his belief as he still maintains this will happen. But that slogan was a very big influence on his vote (in his own words) and I very much doubt he was alone amongst 17.4 million voters believing this either.

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47 minutes ago, Webbo said:

When we leave and stop our contributions I'm sure some of that money will go to the NHS. It's good politics.

Doubt it. Only way to significantly increase NHS spending is to vote Labour. Many Tories want to kill it and the man currently in charge wrote the the book on NHS privatisation, literally.

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Just now, Sharpe's Fox said:

Doubt it. Only way to significantly increase NHS spending is to vote Labour. Many Tories want to kill it and the man currently in charge wrote the the book on NHS privatisation, literally.

Labour's been saying that for 30 years, does anyone actually still believe it?

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1 hour ago, Strokes said:

But did he? And did he vote based on it? Sorry I'm not buying it.

I bet you it's just another bitter remainer.

 

If it wasn't an effective campaign tool, it wouldn't have been on the side of the bus... and there was of course the other contentious things about that part of the campaign given the amount quoted was very questionable AND the NHS brand was used without its express permission. 

 

There is no doubt it was effective given how many people are able to quote the figure even now.

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If we have to dumb down politics to level of intelligence of the lowest voter, we might as well give up now! I could fabricate a story about a pensioner who wanted to vote leave but got frighten about losing his triple lock and changed to remain at the last minute......but what's the point? It's bullshit, just like the bus, just like the OP and just like the EU. 

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8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Labour's been saying that for 30 years, does anyone actually still believe it?

 

There's some serious undermining of the whole system going on at the moment and some how Hunt remains in post despite a pretty abject performance as health secretary. 

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Just now, Strokes said:

If we have to dumb down politics to level of intelligence of the lowest voter, we might as well give up now! I could fabricate a story about a pensioner who wanted to vote leave but got frighten about losing his triple lock and changed to remain at the last minute......but what's the point? It's bullshit, just like the bus, just like the OP and just like the EU. 

The only people who ever mention the message on the side of the bus are remainers.

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1 minute ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

There's some serious undermining of the whole system going on at the moment and some how Hunt remains in post despite a pretty abject performance as health secretary. 

The NHS will never have enough money, it's always in crisis.

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3 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

If it wasn't an effective campaign tool, it wouldn't have been on the side of the bus... and there was of course the other contentious things about that part of the campaign given the amount quoted was very questionable AND the NHS brand was used without its express permission. 

 

There is no doubt it was effective given how many people are able to quote the figure even now.

It was an effective example of what that money could do, if spent in this country. The Lie was the figure, not the non existent 'pledge'.

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1 minute ago, Strokes said:

If we have to dumb down politics to level of intelligence of the lowest voter, we might as well give up now! I could fabricate a story about a pensioner who wanted to vote leave but got frighten about losing his triple lock and changed to remain at the last minute......but what's the point? It's bullshit, just like the bus, just like the OP and just like the EU. 

We don't have to dumb it down, we just have to realise our reasoning and understanding are not the same across the board for all voters. People voted leave and remain for many different reasons, and with many levels of understanding. I'm not blaming the bus for Brexit, but it would be good if some of you would at accept it played a role, even if it didn't sway you.

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1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

We don't have to dumb it down, we just have to realise our reasoning and understanding are not the same across the board for all voters. People voted leave and remain for many different reasons, and with many levels of understanding. I'm not blaming the bus for Brexit, but it would be good if some of you would at accept it played a role, even if it didn't sway you.

It did help Boris get about a bit, so yeah it played a role.

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2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It was an effective example of what that money could do, if spent in this country. The Lie was the figure, not the non existent 'pledge'.

 

So you agree it was a lie now?

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Just now, Buce said:

 

So you agree it was a lie now?

The figure quoted was the gross contribution rather than the net contribution so it wasn't exactly a lie, it was spin.

 

What about the people who bought project fear? Is it possible that people reluctantly voted remain because they believed the DIY recession, increased unemployment and the end of western civilisation?

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3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It was an effective example of what that money could do, if spent in this country. The Lie was the figure, not the non existent 'pledge'.

 

Yes, agreed... but it wasn't explicitly positioned like that. 

 

Lets face it, it was a little naughty, especially when you have someone like Gove who then dismisses the notion on the morning after. 

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12 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Have we got a quote to prove that?

Can't be arsed I'm not Alf or Matt. I think every post you make is based on your own rhetoric and you never seem to have any evidence for anything you have an opinion on. To be honest I'm not particularly arsed it's just a football forum but how you can have the sand to ask anyone is a tad hypocritical.

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