Guest Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 Probably not right wing enough for strokes... Michael Heseltine: ‘Signing article 50 is the worst decision we’ve made’ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/michael-heseltine-signing-article-50-is-the-worst-decision-weve-made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 3 hours ago, Buce said: EU leaders agree tough stance on Brexit:: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/eu-leaders-set-to-take-tough-stance-in-special-brexit-summit Interesting. Obviously you condemn such a choreographed attempt at sabre-rattling by supposed friends and allies? Theresa May and the Conservatives have been criticised for similar by some on here in the past, so surely this is nothing different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 51 minutes ago, toddybad said: Probably not right wing enough for strokes... Michael Heseltine: ‘Signing article 50 is the worst decision we’ve made’ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/michael-heseltine-signing-article-50-is-the-worst-decision-weve-made? Is he still demanding we join the Euro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 51 minutes ago, toddybad said: Probably not right wing enough for strokes... Michael Heseltine: ‘Signing article 50 is the worst decision we’ve made’ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/michael-heseltine-signing-article-50-is-the-worst-decision-weve-made? Good quote from Hezza: "People didn’t like eight years of frozen living standards and they were anxious about immigration. They were looking for a scapegoat and Europe was the convenient candidate". That's not true of everyone who voted Leave, clearly. Some had rational or ideological objections to the EU, a strong belief in national democracy, the nation state or whatever. But I reckon that quote partly sums up why Leave won. If the 2008 crash and austerity hadn't happened, living standards had carried on rising and people hadn't felt threatened by immigrant labour, would Leave have won? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Good quote from Hezza: "People didn’t like eight years of frozen living standards and they were anxious about immigration. They were looking for a scapegoat and Europe was the convenient candidate". That's not true of everyone who voted Leave, clearly. Some had rational or ideological objections to the EU, a strong belief in national democracy, the nation state or whatever. But I reckon that quote partly sums up why Leave won. If the 2008 crash and austerity hadn't happened, living standards had carried on rising and people hadn't felt threatened by immigrant labour, would Leave have won? I doubt it. Or perhaps those who were hit hardest by mass low-skilled immigration (i.e the working class) were tired of seeing the demographics of their communities change completely within the space of a few short years without ever being asked if this was something they wanted? What would "Hezza" know about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 17 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said: Or perhaps those who were hit hardest by mass low-skilled immigration (i.e the working class) were tired of seeing the demographics of their communities change completely within the space of a few short years without ever being asked if this was something they wanted? What would "Hezza" know about that? Then perhaps they could have directed that feeling more directly at the parties causing that particular issue and not the parties involved in its effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 18 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said: Or perhaps those who were hit hardest by mass low-skilled immigration (i.e the working class) were tired of seeing the demographics of their communities change completely within the space of a few short years without ever being asked if this was something they wanted? What would "Hezza" know about that? I suspect his butler keeps him informed whilst swanning around the grounds of his stately home in Oxfordshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 15 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Then perhaps they could have directed that feeling more directly at the parties causing that particular issue and not the parties involved in its effect? Which parties would they be except the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 1 hour ago, toddybad said: Probably not right wing enough for strokes... Michael Heseltine: ‘Signing article 50 is the worst decision we’ve made’ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/michael-heseltine-signing-article-50-is-the-worst-decision-weve-made? Just an irrelevant old man mainly talking about his garden. Nothing to see here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 25 minutes ago, Webbo said: Which parties would they be except the EU? The business owners bringing in the "mass low-skilled immigration" that BlueSi speaks of for the sake of their own bottom line in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 15 minutes ago, leicsmac said: The business owners bringing in the "mass low-skilled immigration" that BlueSi speaks of for the sake of their own bottom line in the first place. The Europeans are allowed to come here whether they've got a job or not. Are you suggesting that the businesses should discriminate against foreigners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: The Europeans are allowed to come here whether they've got a job or not. Are you suggesting that the businesses should discriminate against foreigners? I'm saying that the folks BlueSi was thinking of should, if they were really worried about mass low-skilled immigration causing demographic change in their communities and not wanting that, perhaps petition business owners to indeed discriminate in that way and restrict immigration in that fashion rather than directing ill feeling at the immigrants themselves. I, incidentally, agree with neither - but whenever this argument comes up the rhetoric seems to be directed at the workers and hardly ever at the bosses who are happy to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 8 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I'm saying that the folks BlueSi was thinking of should, if they were really worried about mass low-skilled immigration causing demographic change in their communities and not wanting that, perhaps petition business owners to indeed discriminate in that way and restrict immigration in that fashion rather than directing ill feeling at the immigrants themselves. I, incidentally, agree with neither - but whenever this argument comes up the rhetoric seems to be directed at the workers and hardly ever at the bosses who are happy to see it happen. Businesses exist to make money. If they don't employ the cheap labour their competitors will and undercut them. Nobody is blaming the workers, it's the system that's to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 30 minutes ago, Webbo said: Businesses exist to make money. If they don't employ the cheap labour their competitors will and undercut them. Nobody is blaming the workers, it's the system that's to blame. Really? All those headlines, op ed pieces and social media posts must have been a misinterpretation then. Got it. The system is to blame, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Really? All those headlines, op ed pieces and social media posts must have been a misinterpretation then. Got it. The system is to blame, though. I can't speak for everyone who comments on this subject but the people I know aren't blaming the migrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: I can't speak for everyone who comments on this subject but the people I know aren't blaming the migrants. Then I am happy for the company you keep. There are far too many that do, which was my point all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: The Europeans are allowed to come here whether they've got a job or not. Only because successive governments have failed to use the tools in place in the treaties granting free movement of workers - they've got the right to reside for three months without a job, longer than that and the states can enforce requirements upon them and send them back if they do not meet those requirements: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 1 hour ago, The Doctor said: Only because successive governments have failed to use the tools in place in the treaties granting free movement of workers - they've got the right to reside for three months without a job, longer than that and the states can enforce requirements upon them and send them back if they do not meet those requirements: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.html We're talking about people who've come over here and got a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: We're talking about people who've come over here and got a job. You and I have very different definitions of the word not then... 2 hours ago, Webbo said: The Europeans are allowed to come here whether they've got a job or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 1 hour ago, The Doctor said: Only because successive governments have failed to use the tools in place in the treaties granting free movement of workers - they've got the right to reside for three months without a job, longer than that and the states can enforce requirements upon them and send them back if they do not meet those requirements: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.html And whoever we voted for were not taking it serious enough to deliver it. They are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 17 minutes ago, The Doctor said: You and I have very different definitions of the word not then... That's because you edited out the last bit. 2 hours ago, Webbo said: The Europeans are allowed to come here whether they've got a job or not. Are you suggesting that the businesses should discriminate against foreigners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: That's because you edited out the last bit. Would be if that was at all relevant. Saying that businesses shouldn't discriminate against foreign nationals doesn't impact on your first sentence where you explicitly say they can come even if they don't have a job waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 29 April 2017 Share Posted 29 April 2017 1 minute ago, The Doctor said: Would be if that was at all relevant. Saying that businesses shouldn't discriminate against foreign nationals doesn't impact on your first sentence where you explicitly say they can come even if they don't have a job waiting. If you go back to the original point Mac was saying that employers employ cheap labour. The cheap labour comes here to be employed. Why wouldn't employers hire them? They wouldn't be allowed to discriminate against them if they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 30 April 2017 Share Posted 30 April 2017 7 hours ago, Webbo said: If you go back to the original point Mac was saying that employers employ cheap labour. The cheap labour comes here to be employed. Why wouldn't employers hire them? They wouldn't be allowed to discriminate against them if they wanted to. You're either being extremely naïve or disingenuous, Webbo. Employers discriminate all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 30 April 2017 Share Posted 30 April 2017 56 minutes ago, Buce said: You're either being extremely naïve or disingenuous, Webbo. Employers discriminate all the time. They get done for it regularly as well. Why would they want to anyway when they're working for a fraction of what the native population will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.