ozleicester Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 1 minute ago, MPH said: Ah yes of course... Because an Australian news source will be more accurate than an american one... They really didnt overbook. Unless of course you are suggesting that they leave 4-5 empty seats on every flight just in case they have another staffing crisis? They overbooked, their CEO has acknowledged that and all airlines do it, and plan for it.... on most occasions, its no problem, a couple of people dont show up and the overbookeds get a seat (the people who dont turn up still pay for their seat). All win for the company. On the rare occasions that they get caught out the airlines offer benefits (cash, hotel rooms, free flights) to encourage people to not board and prevent this situation. I am amazed how people are happy to accept the abuses by business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Floyd Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 6 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Perhaps not that extreme, but perhaps a little more forward planning in the future? You know, to save them the couple of mill the forthcoming lawsuit is going to cost them? Again, perhaps they could have 'auctioned' the space off - would end up costing them much, much less than this. Agree with this. It's hard to comment without knowing the factual details of the story but you'd assume that the airline would offer some form of incentive for the passengers volunteering to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 3 minutes ago, Finnegan said: But you make it sound like they deliberately overbooked the flight. Why would they do that? Like I said, some poor sod sat behind a desk probably cocked up. Not "THE CORPORATE MACHINE, MAN(!)" but probably some twenty year old making considerably less an hour than the veteran doctor throwing a tantrum. You also have no idea whether or not the airline offered (or were intending to offer) compensation to passengers who had to get off the flight for their inconvenience. Personally, I've found every airline I've ever travelled with to be very quick to hand out free flights and accommodation in the face of having ballsed up. (This is all assuming they DID **** up, when alternative sources say they didn't.) That's not what this story is about. This story is about a man refusing to get off a plane he didn't have a legal right to insist on being on and, by all accounts, trying to force himself back on it. My question to you is how should they get him off the plane if he refuses, other than with force? What were they meant to do? Bribe another customer to get off instead? Maybe pay for them to go to Disneyland to incentivize them? 3 In this rare situation that is exactly what they should have done. Cost them much, much less in the long term. 1 minute ago, Finnegan said: Why would they have to pay anything out? It wasn't their staff that laid their hands on the guy that was breaking the law. I'm reasonably sure there's a case for their responsibility because they called the airport fuzz in and didn't have a contingency plan that didn't involve someone's face getting broken (though it'll be the airport that will be the primary defendant). Of course, you could make the argument that they couldn't really do anything else - it was always going to end in a clusterfvck once the guy involved began to get ornery and there was no way UA were coming out of it looking well...but given how litigious things are over here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 Asked to get off, refused to do so, removed by force. Pretty standard really. Clearly is racial prejudice but I don't think it's the airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 7 minutes ago, Finnegan said: But you make it sound like they deliberately overbooked the flight. Why would they do that? Like I said, some poor sod sat behind a desk probably cocked up. Not "THE CORPORATE MACHINE, MAN(!)" but probably some twenty year old making considerably less an hour than the veteran doctor throwing a tantrum. You also have no idea whether or not the airline offered (or were intending to offer) compensation to passengers who had to get off the flight for their inconvenience. Personally, I've found every airline I've ever travelled with to be very quick to hand out free flights and accommodation in the face of having ballsed up. (This is all assuming they DID **** up, when alternative sources say they didn't.) That's not what this story is about. This story is about a man refusing to get off a plane he didn't have a legal right to insist on being on and, by all accounts, trying to force himself back on it. My question to you is how should they get him off the plane if he refuses, other than with force? What were they meant to do? Bribe another customer to get off instead? Maybe pay for them to go to Disneyland to incentivize them? The story IS about overbooking, they do it because most flights a couple of people dont turn up, so they book an extra couple of people on to the flight, assuming that 2 wont turn up... those two still get charged, the two who were overbooked also pay, the plane flies full and even gets an extra couple of fares. You can say its about the man not getting off... if the company didnt over book to begin with, there would not be an issue. And YES... bribing people to get off is EXACTLY what they do EVERY DAY. You need to think a little broader about things and stop just believing what they tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: In this rare situation that is exactly what they should have done. Cost them much, much less in the long term. I'm reasonably sure there's a case for their responsibility because they called the airport fuzz in and didn't have a contingency plan that didn't involve someone's face getting broken (though it'll be the airport that will be the primary defendant). Of course, you could make the argument that they couldn't really do anything else - it was always going to end in a clusterfvck once the guy involved began to get ornery and there was no way UA were coming out of it looking well...but given how litigious things are over here... Sorry mac but absolutely no chance. They told the passenger he had to get off, which they had a legal right to do, he refused. At this point he is breaking the law. They then hand the issue over to airport security and they do the rest. From a legal standpoint the airline have done nothing wrong, which is why their CEO is backing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 5 minutes ago, MPH said: If anyone gets sued it will be the aviation police - they were the ones who removed him... Now im not saying they were not overly aggressive . im just saying it was the police who removed him and not the airline. Going back to that school girl who was aggressively removed from her chair and almost body slammed out of it... it was all over the news.. It was the school and teacher who asked for her removal from the class... why was the policeman vilified in that case and not the school? and why does it seem to be the other way round in this instance? That's a fair point. It is, of course, the Chicago fuzz acting like...well, acting like classic American cops that should be the ones people are pointing fingers at rather than UA, but the airline I think does have some culpability simply because they didn't have a plan other than 'call in the heavy mob'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 3 minutes ago, ozleicester said: They overbooked, their CEO has acknowledged that and all airlines do it, and plan for it.... on most occasions, its no problem, a couple of people dont show up and the overbookeds get a seat (the people who dont turn up still pay for their seat). All win for the company. On the rare occasions that they get caught out the airlines offer benefits (cash, hotel rooms, free flights) to encourage people to not board and prevent this situation. I am amazed how people are happy to accept the abuses by business. So what are you suggesting? delay 200 people because this one guy wouldn't leave the flight? 200 angry customers or one angry customer... are you REALLY suggesting they should of left him on? Alot of people seem to be ignoring the fact they once off the flight, he ran back on to it... He's actually lucky not to of been shot, running through check in and running on to a flight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 1 minute ago, MPH said: So what are you suggesting? delay 200 people because this one guy wouldn't leave the flight? 200 angry customers or one angry customer... are you REALLY suggesting they should of left him on? Alot of people seem to be ignoring the fact they once off the flight, he ran back on to it... He's actually lucky not to of been shot, running through check in and running on to a flight! What he's suggesting is RAH DEM CORPRASHUNS MAN THEY EVUUUUUL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 11 April 2017 Author Share Posted 11 April 2017 Could read..Trumps government terrorists pick on foreign looking gentlemen to evict with force, where 3 other smart passengers willingly took up the airlines offer. Congratulations to the security forces, in being quick and forceful, taking no heed or regards for the women and children who who would of been very scared at that moment.. The passenger was just an innocent passenger, not a terrorists, who just wanted to get home, who became an unwilling victim of the Airlines total customer service incompetence. Not forgetting their poor actions already caused an unnecessary delay. If I was a freelance Reuters/Bloomberg journalist....thats my sell story for the magazines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 Just now, Finnegan said: Sorry mac but absolutely no chance. They told the passenger he had to get off, which they had a legal right to do, he refused. At this point he is breaking the law. They then hand the issue over to airport security and they do the rest. From a legal standpoint the airline have done nothing wrong, which is why their CEO is backing them. You're probably right, but I'm thinking it's still going to come down to who has the best lawyers - it shouldn't work that way but civil cases in the US tend to. And they're getting absolutely murdered PR-wise which is going to hit them in their wallets. Perhaps this will incentivise airlines to come up with better strategies for situations such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 Im in the states quite often, this does happen. Usually they ask someone to nominate themselves and would receive compensation etc etc. Another case a colleague of mine was revoked, just before getting onto the plane and i was let on. The only difference between me and him, was that he was white and middle class and didn't sign for the loyalty programme. I have been upgraded due to overbooked flight, i have also get to the check in desk and told the flight has been over booked. If your stupid enough to resist, then what do you expect. The gentleman had enough evidence to get off the flight and have them book him onto another flight asap, even with a competitor airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 1 minute ago, MPH said: So what are you suggesting? delay 200 people because this one guy wouldn't leave the flight? 200 angry customers or one angry customer... are you REALLY suggesting they should of left him on? Alot of people seem to be ignoring the fact they once off the flight, he ran back on to it... He's actually lucky not to of been shot, running through check in and running on to a flight! Geebus i thought i was pretty clear what im suggestiing... 1) Do NOT over book! 2) If your greed prevents you from 1... then do NOT let more people onto the plane that you can accommodate (eg stop them at boarding) 3) If you cannot manage 1 or 2....(in which case im concerned about your ability to run a company).... then offer ENOUGH that people will volunteer their seats and get off amicably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: You're probably right, but I'm thinking it's still going to come down to who has the best lawyers - it shouldn't work that way but civil cases in the US tend to. And they're getting absolutely murdered PR-wise which is going to hit them in their wallets. Perhaps this will incentivise airlines to come up with better strategies for situations such as this. And that right there is why I'll defend them vehemently until any ACTUAL wrong doing is proven. Because this has all come around because, yet again, some bullshit social media video has gone viral and a shitstorm of whiney, offended-by-everything internet justice warriors like ozleicester have flown off the handle making assumptions. The guy is a weedy looking, aged, bespectacled man from an ethnic minority and so the entire liberal half of the internet have automatically assumed he's being oppressed by the big mean airline. It's ridiculous hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 6 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: Im in the states quite often, this does happen. Usually they ask someone to nominate themselves and would receive compensation etc etc. Another case a colleague of mine was revoked, just before getting onto the plane and i was let on. The only difference between me and him, was that he was white and middle class and didn't sign for the loyalty programme. I have been upgraded due to overbooked flight, i have also get to the check in desk and told the flight has been over booked. If your stupid enough to resist, then what do you expect. The gentleman had enough evidence to get off the flight and have them book him onto another flight asap, even with a competitor airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 2 minutes ago, Finnegan said: And that right there is why I'll defend them vehemently until any ACTUAL wrong doing is proven. Because this has all come around because, yet again, some bullshit social media video has gone viral and a shitstorm of whiney, offended-by-everything internet justice warriors like ozleicester have flown off the handle making assumptions. The guy is a weedy looking, aged, bespectacled man from an ethnic minority and so the entire liberal half of the internet have automatically assumed he's being oppressed by the big mean airline. It's ridiculous hysteria. That's fair enough. As I said, perhaps this will encourage different ideas for dealing with such situations in the future. No airline wants to see their stock get pummeled because of an incident like this when it's possible it could be avoided. Do you think the guy has a case against the Chicago airport fuzz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 1 minute ago, ozleicester said: Geebus i thought i was pretty clear what im suggestiing... 1) Do NOT over book! 2) If your greed prevents you from 1... then do NOT let more people onto the plane that you can accommodate (eg stop them at boarding) 3) If you cannot manage 1 or 2....(in which case im concerned about your ability to run a company).... then offer ENOUGH that people will volunteer their seats and get off amicably. you seem, to be ignoring my question? So what are you suggesting? delay 200 people because this one guy wouldn't leave the flight? 200 angry customers or one angry customer... are you REALLY suggesting they should of left him on? How would you of dealt with a passenger refusing to get off a plane? you cant keep talking about how to prevent a situation.. the situation was there and needed to be dealt with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 Just now, MPH said: you seem, to be ignoring my question? So what are you suggesting? delay 200 people because this one guy wouldn't leave the flight? 200 angry customers or one angry customer... are you REALLY suggesting they should of left him on? How would you of dealt with a passenger refusing to get off a plane? you cant keep talking about how to prevent a situation.. the situation was there and needed to be dealt with Sigh....try reading my post... ill make it easy for you.. look for the number THREE (3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: That's fair enough. As I said, perhaps this will encourage different ideas for dealing with such situations in the future. No airline wants to see their stock get pummeled because of an incident like this when it's possible it could be avoided. Do you think the guy has a case against the Chicago airport fuzz? Now thats totally a fair point.. they need to look at any fesable ways of preventing this from happening. What the aviation police will need to prove is did they make every effort to resolve the situation and did they use unreasonable force? as a side note, one of the officers has been placed on leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 1 minute ago, ozleicester said: Sigh....try reading my post... ill make it easy for you.. look for the number THREE (3) i have read your post. How do you not get it? he was refusing to leave the plane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: That's fair enough. As I said, perhaps this will encourage different ideas for dealing with such situations in the future. No airline wants to see their stock get pummeled because of an incident like this when it's possible it could be avoided. Do you think the guy has a case against the Chicago airport fuzz? The guy has no case, he was asked to leave and refused. As soon as you resist, the case of acceptable force is very difficult to defend, as the fuzz are entitled to apply the relevant force, so the more you resist, the more the fuzz can apply force. Now if he was shit or beaten by battens then maybe,. It if his head was accidentally bashed.... I doubt he would get anything else then a free upgrade from the airline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 8 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Do you think the guy has a case against the Chicago airport fuzz? If it turns out he left the flight once and really did try and run back on and that's when they got more physical (which will come out easily as there's no doubt CCTV everywhere) then he's got no chance. He'll be lucky if the authorities don't prosecute him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 5 minutes ago, ozleicester said: Sigh....try reading my post... ill make it easy for you.. look for the number THREE (3) So back to the question you seem to be ignoring.... How would you deal with a person who is refusing to leave the plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 4 minutes ago, MPH said: i have read your post. How do you not get it? he was refusing to leave the plane! But it's a free world man the airline don't own his personal space Christ. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samilktray Posted 11 April 2017 Share Posted 11 April 2017 I genuinely had tears in my eyes watching the part of the video where he was being dragged through the plane. I love the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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