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Buce

Is it coz I is black?

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I know that technically this is a football story, but since positive discrimination is a wider issue, I thought it belonged in GC.

 

Dwight Yorke is suggesting that black players go on strike to address the lack of black managers, claiming it is clearly a racist issue. Is it? Should we have a quota of black managers, regardless of talent?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39661668

 

Former Manchester United striker Dwight Yorke has criticised the lack of black bosses in football and claims he cannot get an interview for a manager's job.

Yorke, 45, said he knew of black former players who would not do coaching badges as they felt they had little chance of getting a coaching role.

"If it's not because of the colour of our skin then tell me what it is?" the former Trinidad and Tobago player said.

"I'm speaking out about it. Be fair. At least give us an interview."

Speaking to BBC World Service's World Football show, Yorke suggested that black players might have to consider going on strike to force those involved in the game to take a serious look at the lack of black managers.

Listen: Dwight Yorke - black players may have to consider going on strike

Earlier this month Grimsby Town sacked Marcus Bignot, leaving Brighton's Chris Hughton and Carlisle's Keith Curle as the only managers from black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) backgrounds in the top four divisions of the English game.

 

In 2014 Paul Ince and Dion Dublin discussed the issue on Football Focus

"Football is a global sport and black players have contributed to the global sport for a number of years," added Yorke, whose former clubs also included Aston Villa and Blackburn Rovers.

"Look to the Premier League. Are there any black managers? Look at the Italian league? Are there any black managers? The list goes on."

Yorke won the Premier League three times at United, in 1998-99, 1999-2000 and 2000-01. He also helped Sir Alex Ferguson's team win the Champions League in 1999.

He added: "People like myself, who have good credibility in the game and played at the very top level, you'd think would get a job or at least be given an interview, but you're not even getting an interview.

"I see managers with my own eyes walking out of jobs and then walking into jobs, getting sacked and then walking back into another job... yet we can't even get an interview.

"I see that as not being fair."

'There's no doubt the balances are not right'

Last month, Brighton boss Hughton said there was a "real enthusiasm for change" to give equal opportunities for black managers in the English game.

"It is going to be about talking around the table as much as possible, highlighting it as much as possible and looking to see change," added Hughton, who has masterminded Brighton's promotion to the Premier League.

 

Chris Hughton managed Newcastle, Birmingham and Norwich prior to taking charge of Brighton

"There is no doubt that the balances are not right.

"Where I have seen change is at grassroots level and academy level. I think everybody wants to see that at first-team level up through the leagues.

"I do think there is a real enthusiasm to want change."

 

 

 

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Maybe it's me seeing it through rose tinted specs but I don't believe that black people are being turned down for interviews based on the colour of their skin. There are plenty of black captains for instance.

 

There's too much money in the game, owners will want the best man for the job. I don't hear of too many black men or women starting their coaching badges or what not.

 

Look at Dwight Yorke. It's true that he had a great playing career, but does he have his coaching badges? Is he willing to work his way up?

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Bore off Dwight. He does this every year to try and make himself relevant again. crying racism for not getting a managers job despite not having the experience. He's turning in to Sol Campbell and it's sad to see as he was a brilliant player.

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Is it a racist issue? Probably, yes. 

 

Is that the only issue? Hell no. If it was the only issue, we wouldn't see any BAME players, surely? If you are good enough, you will get the interviews and eventually get the job. 

 

It's always been difficult to become a manager, especially when you want to start off in higher divisions. It's why we see the same managers time and again on the merry go round. 

 

I do agree that clubs should be given quotas to hit for interviews, everyone deserves the same chance, however, I don't believe we should be forcing clubs to hire BAME managers. It should be equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. If you want a managers job you have to put the work in, start down at the bottom and work your way up. 

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7 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Maybe it's me seeing it through rose tinted specs but I don't believe that black people are being turned down for interviews based on the colour of their skin. There are plenty of black captains for instance.

 

There's too much money in the game, owners will want the best man for the job. I don't hear of too many black men or women starting their coaching badges or what not.

 

Look at Dwight Yorke. It's true that he had a great playing career, but does he have his coaching badges? Is he willing to work his way up?

 

As he himself said:

 

Yorke, 45, said he knew of black former players who would not do coaching badges as they felt they had little chance of getting a coaching role

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2 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

Bore off Dwight. He does this every year to try and make himself relevant again. crying racism for not getting a managers job despite not having the experience. He's turning in to Sol Campbell and it's sad to see as he was a brilliant player.

 

This! 

Why don't they go to the lower leagues or even non-league? build up some experience and then apply for other jobs! 

Does he think he's going to walk in to a PL job? 

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15 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

As he himself said:

 

Yorke, 45, said he knew of black former players who would not do coaching badges as they felt they had little chance of getting a coaching role

And that's exactly why there aren't more black coaches and managers. Not enough of them are trying to get into it. If a higher percentage of black people got their badges, a higher percentage of them would get top level jobs

 

I wouldn't object to someone like Chris Houghton becoming our next manager, and Patrick Viera could probably do a job at a Championship Level club, with a view to building up his management abilities and reputation towards a future Top Tier role. 

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2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

As he himself said:

 

Yorke, 45, said he knew of black former players who would not do coaching badges as they felt they had little chance of getting a coaching role

 

Because giving up is the best way of dealing with it, of course.

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16 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

i didn't think you were allowed to describe someone as black.

That sort of comment is part of the problem - whoever came up with the notion is actually suggesting that "black" is somehow inferior to what? White, yellow, dark brown, light brown? What nonsense, yet mugs will listen to and support such crap.   

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6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

As he himself said:

 

Yorke, 45, said he knew of black former players who would not do coaching badges as they felt they had little chance of getting a coaching role

 

Hardly the attitude that would give someone confidence and reason to appoint them.  

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4 minutes ago, Thracian said:

One day people will be judged on their merit and without even a moment's thought about their colour - as I do when I consider team selections and my match ratings for a game. Anything else is contrived.  

 

Why do you even feel the need to state that?

 

Do you think anyone here does differently?

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If a Premier League job became available, i'm really struggling to name many black Managers with the qualifications and experience a premier league team requires to take over. It certainly isn't because i'm racist. Its because there just aren't enough black footballers going into coaching and management after retirement.

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1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

Isn't this more about football club chairman and their behaviours, and prejudices?

 

 

And what would you do? Somehow stand as more worthy to decide who should manage their club than they are? Get a club of your own by all means and apply such theories. You'll be choosing people's wives next. As the man who has no prejudice I presume and only has behavioural ideas and attitudes to be commended and and supported by all.     

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I'm totally opposed to any system that discriminates on the basis of colour.  A quota system would be one such discriminatory set-up.  In my view competence and suitability for the position should be the only criteria for selection.  I don't care if our next manager is green with purple spots if he or she is able to deliver success to the club.

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5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Why do you even feel the need to state that?

 

Do you think anyone here does differently?

My comment about my attitudes had nothing to do with anyone else's thought processes. They speak for themselves. But as you asked the question and forced me to give it consideration yes, I do. I think there's biased support for various players on here. The Algerians most obviously from people I believe are only on this forum because of them. But others too who may also have a wish to promote a friend or someone they've followed for a while.   

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1 minute ago, Thracian said:

And what would you do? Somehow stand as more worthy to decide who should manage their club than they are? Get a club of your own by all means and apply such theories. You'll be choosing people's wives next. As the man who has no prejudice I presume and only has behavioural ideas and attitudes to be commended and and supported by all.     

Well Tony,

 

I'm simply pointing out that if there are so few BAME opportunities in management we should look to the people who advertise, sift through applicant applications, interview and subsequently employ individuals for explanation and inquiry as to gain knowledge of the circumstances as to why.

 

I do appreciate such a process might be alien to you though buddy - just find a Huffington Post article that suits your rhetoric and start you your own thread about it all - that's a much better solution.

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18 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

If a Premier League job became available, i'm really struggling to name many black Managers with the qualifications and experience a premier league team requires to take over. It certainly isn't because i'm racist. Its because there just aren't enough black footballers going into coaching and management after retirement.

Fair point.

 

Can you name white managers that have arguably been given jobs over other more qualified and experienced white managers?

 

Just trying to ask the question from a different angle applying your criteria.

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Football management is a closed shop, especially at the top level, but even in the lower leagues it is the same names in the same jobs, Harry Redknapp FFS, Neil Warnock.

 

Untried and untested managers do not get top jobs, unless they have a reputation behind them, even then look at Ryan Giggs, only second to Beckham in terms of profile in Britain, left united last year and nobody has wanted to go near him. Dwight Yorke, whose management career is virtually non existent, is not going to get a look in, just because he played for United.

 

Lets look at some of the new boys to the management game, Shakespeare or Agnew, they both finished playing in 2000 and went straight into coaching and it took them 17 years to get a chance and they could both still be binned off for some 'name' from Europe.

 

Or you have Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche who have taken lower league teams to the top. I don't know if Yorke or any other BAME aspiring managers have been applying for jobs at Yeovil or Hartlepool,  but until we know which jobs he applied for and who got the job ahead of him then it is hard to comment. Football is success driven and if you are good enough you will make it regardless of ethnicity, the problem with Ince or Terry Connor is that when they had the chance they weren't good enough. Connor is now assistant manager again at Ipswich. Ince has had 6 different managerial roles and was poor in most of them.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is clearly a lack of black managers, especially when you consider how many black players there are, but change won't come when you have Mcarthy, Redknapp, Warnock, Gary Johnson and others on the merry go round or the obsession with foreign managers. Birmingham have been a perfect example of it this season, sack a young promising manager for Zola, then replace Zola with Redknapp.

 

I don't feel like it has anything to do with race, and any sort of positive discrimination is counter productive, and I can't take Dwight Yorke seriously on this matter, he was a great player but not known for his tactical intelligence and leadership qualities, he was better known for his eye for goal and for  the ladies. It  would be interesting to see his CV because if Wikipedia is anything to go by he has done very little in the last 7 years to warrant a managerial role.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Thracian said:

My comment about my attitudes had nothing to do with anyone else's thought processes. They speak for themselves. But as you asked the question and forced me to give it consideration yes, I do. I think there's biased support for various players on here. The Algerians most obviously from people I believe are only on this forum because of them. But others too who may also have a wish to promote a friend or someone they've followed for a while.   

 

Giving biased support to any given player is not the same as what you stated, though.

 

You, at the very least, implied that there are posters who mark players down due to their race, and assured us that you are not one of them. It had never occurred to me that even the most racist of posters would be so inclined; it is telling, I think, that it occurred to you.

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Just now, Buce said:

 

Giving biased support to any given player is not the same as what you stated, though.

 

You, at the very least, implied that there are posters who mark players down due to their race, and assured us that you are not one of them. It had never occurred to me that even the most racist of posters would be so inclined; it is telling, I think, that it occurred to you.

 

You really talk such nonsense - and the moderators allow you to post such personal tripe - that I can't be bothered with you any more.   

 

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