Madeleine Mccann Australian Documentary

[Jon the Hat]

10 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

This wont go down well, but I always wonder how many other missing children could have been found with a fraction of the funding Madeleine has had/is still getting.

 

I dread to think of what happened to Madeleine though. Must haunt the parents every day.

 

Which children would you have spent it on?  There really aren't that many missing 3-4 year old kids not found for lack of funding.

[Bayfox]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

According to Wikipedia, they were eating 55m away, not "hundreds of metres", although they had to go a longer way round to get to the flat and didn't have a view of the street windows. One or other of the group checked on the kids every 30 mins or so.

I'm not denying that they made a misjudgment, but find it interesting that the scale of that misjudgment tends to be talked up.

 

I'm also interested in the circumstances in which people think parents should be condemned. If you, @Wookie or @The Doctor or anyone else feel like it, what are your opinions on these hypothetical scenarios:

 

1) A father is paying for his 3-year-old daughter's toys at the cash till and there's a complication. Suddenly, he realises his daughter has gone. An alert staff member notices her leaving the shop with a suspicious man. Lucky escape!

2) A mother is cooking in the kitchen. Her 2-year-old is securely in his playpen in the lounge. After about 15 minutes, she receives a phone call. An acquaintance has just seen her son 400m away. He has somehow escaped from the playpen, walked 200m down a main road with no pavements and then another 200m down pavements to the village shop, where she finds him.

3) A mother sits her 1-year-old at the back of a bed ready to change his nappy, then realises she's left the nappies at the other side of the room. He's not crawling yet so she feels safe to leave him for 10 seconds while she crosses the room for the nappies. But he chooses that moment to crawl for the first time and falls head first onto the carpeted floor. She rushes him to A&E. Thankfully, he is unhurt.

4) A father is dashing about making food for his 2-year-old, who is safely crawling around the lounge floor. Out of the corner of his eye, he notices the bottle of laxative on a shelf lower than it should be, but is confident that the medical safety lock will be on. 20 seconds later, he dashes back in to find his son taking a glug from the bottle. It makes the lad vomit but no harm done, thankfully.

5) A mother sees her husband off for his night shift. She puts her daughter to bed. She has had a truly shitty day and is looking forward to a couple of glasses of wine...then realises she's forgotten to buy any. She waits until she is sure her daughter is sound asleep, then, after locking the door, pops to the off-licence across the road for a bottle. Within 4 minutes she is home. Her daughter is still sleeping soundly.

6) A father is doing a bit of decorating. His 2-year-old has been coming and going from the garden, but no problem as they live out in the country. Then he realises that he hasn't seen him for a while. Frantic when he finds that the lad is not in the garden, he is so relieved when he finds him outside a neighbour's house, watching the bloke work on his extension.

 

Which of these parents would you condemn - and would it change anything if the outcomes had been different?

 

If you feel the need to leave a kid locked in the house to get a bottle of Wine I'd suggest you have issues  

[Facecloth]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

According to Wikipedia, they were eating 55m away, not "hundreds of metres", although they had to go a longer way round to get to the flat and didn't have a view of the street windows. One or other of the group checked on the kids every 30 mins or so.

I'm not denying that they made a misjudgment, but find it interesting that the scale of that misjudgment tends to be talked up.

 

I'm also interested in the circumstances in which people think parents should be condemned. If you, @Wookie or @The Doctor or anyone else feel like it, what are your opinions on these hypothetical scenarios:

 

1) A father is paying for his 3-year-old daughter's toys at the cash till and there's a complication. Suddenly, he realises his daughter has gone. An alert staff member notices her leaving the shop with a suspicious man. Lucky escape!

2) A mother is cooking in the kitchen. Her 2-year-old is securely in his playpen in the lounge. After about 15 minutes, she receives a phone call. An acquaintance has just seen her son 400m away. He has somehow escaped from the playpen, walked 200m down a main road with no pavements and then another 200m down pavements to the village shop, where she finds him.

3) A mother sits her 1-year-old at the back of a bed ready to change his nappy, then realises she's left the nappies at the other side of the room. He's not crawling yet so she feels safe to leave him for 10 seconds while she crosses the room for the nappies. But he chooses that moment to crawl for the first time and falls head first onto the carpeted floor. She rushes him to A&E. Thankfully, he is unhurt.

4) A father is dashing about making food for his 2-year-old, who is safely crawling around the lounge floor. Out of the corner of his eye, he notices the bottle of laxative on a shelf lower than it should be, but is confident that the medical safety lock will be on. 20 seconds later, he dashes back in to find his son taking a glug from the bottle. It makes the lad vomit but no harm done, thankfully.

5) A mother sees her husband off for his night shift. She puts her daughter to bed. She has had a truly shitty day and is looking forward to a couple of glasses of wine...then realises she's forgotten to buy any. She waits until she is sure her daughter is sound asleep, then, after locking the door, pops to the off-licence across the road for a bottle. Within 4 minutes she is home. Her daughter is still sleeping soundly.

6) A father is doing a bit of decorating. His 2-year-old has been coming and going from the garden, but no problem as they live out in the country. Then he realises that he hasn't seen him for a while. Frantic when he finds that the lad is not in the garden, he is so relieved when he finds him outside a neighbour's house, watching the bloke work on his extension.

 

Which of these parents would you condemn - and would it change anything if the outcomes had been different?

 

Ok

 

1) That would fall under the taking his eyes off the child for a split second category. Could happen at anytime in a busy place. A momentary lapse of concentration, a distraction from his other child or something else. Nobody to blame and he was preyed on by a opportunist. Wouldn't condemn that parent.

2) Probably should have been sticking her head in every so often to check. The fact a 2 year old managed to get out of a play pen, out the house and 400m down the road with is pretty shite. Her actions in placing her child in a secure within earshot and with quick access to check on it is fine, her subsequent actions of not keeping an eye on the child every so often, not so good. Not gonna condemn her, but she needs to be more alert I'd say.

3) I think that's happened to a lot of parents in some shape or form. Happened to me sister with her son. You feel like a proper idiot. But as the child is constantly within sight and earshot it means you're just unlucky that this has happened.

4) Bit stupid. If there's a chance they can get to it, move it. What's 5 seconds to move the bottle to a safer location going to cost you?

5) As Bayfox says, you've got problems if you're that desperate for wine. She's willingly left her child alone in the house with no supervision. It's not just the chance of somebody taking the child, it's also the chance to child wakes up and finds themselves alone and is scared. Also they have a house to themselves, they could get hold of almost anything, including sharp objects, climbing up cabinets that could fall on them or filling a bath with a small amount of water and drowning. Things that under even the slightest supervision wouldn't happen. This is the closest on your list to the McCann's and is in no way acceptable. 

6) Is similar to 2. He's not done anything wrong as such, just needs to be more vigilant and check the child a bit more. The fact the kids got so far away without him being aware is a bit worrying.

[AKCJ]

4 hours ago, Bayfox said:

My daughter albeit a few years younger attended the same Nursery as the Madeleine, I saw what an impact it had on the staff who had looked after her day to day, so I feel a little sympathy, however I agree with a lot of the other posts, at the end of the day you can't keep an eye on your children 24/7 however hard you try, and my wife now attempts too, which I fear gives them so little freedom.

 

But to actively make a choice to put your kids to bed in an apartment and leave them to go for Dinner, I can't have any sympathy with that. We always take out kids out with us on holiday, and always will, it helps them grow and understand a different type of culture, and we always try to book a room with a balcony and a sea view if poss, and if the point comes where the kids need bed, we will sit on the balcony and watch the world go by from there knowing our kids are safe in bed 10 foot away from us.

 

Going back to the point of trying to keep an eye on them, it does only take a second for a kid to wander out your gaze and you feel ill in the pit of your stomach for that brief moment until you spot them again, I don't know if the world has changed or the news and the internet 24/7 has made it a worse/less innocent place, but I'd go off for hours on end as a kid, now the my kids are allowed as far as the park that I can see from my living room and bedroom windows and that's about it.

 

Really sad, but my wife has been effected by this incident that my kids just don't get to enjoy the perks I did as a child. And to an extent I share her views, but I feel sorry for them at the same time. Our lives are both quite busy we don't have 3 hours every night to spend down the other local parks watching them so they suffer.

I don't have kids yet but I can't begin to imagine how much parents must worry when they don't know where their child is.

 

Looking back to my childhood and wandering through fields, following random streams etc. I could walk miles away from home on weekends and my mum and dad would just think I was at the park. I think back to it and look at stories like the McCann's and the thought of not knowing where the people I love and dear most in the world sends shivers down my spine.

 

I remember being on holiday with some family friends and two girls just walked off. I've never seen anybody so nervous and outright scared as their mother that day.

[Strokes]

Anyone who thinks the McCanns actions before the disappearance were acceptable, are either not parents, or are terrible parents.

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, Bayfox said:

If you feel the need to leave a kid locked in the house to get a bottle of Wine I'd suggest you have issues  

I'd imagine at least half the world would have "issues" with your level of "issues" criteria but then, when I read the papers, listen to the news and add in my experiences on Leicester market and one or two other areas, you could well be right.  

[Guest]

The documentary and piece I saw said something along the lines of....

 

It was the second night they had left the kids. the first night was fine, although the twins were apparently crying and Madeline may have been awoken by them....The next day she asked her parents where they were and they said at the restaurant (where they went the second night).

 

Theory has it (and one that's been thrown around in different forms) is that she left the apartment on the second night to go find her parents as she may have awoken and she was either snatched or ran over or something of that nature, which to me has some legs, but unfortunately their parents were too focused on not making themselves look bad that we will never know what happened  

 

No matter what has happened there has been a very focused effort from their parents to destroy every story that may paint them in negative light....the detective was sued for releasing a book, there have been a couple of other documentaries stopped publishing and every article that comes up that points the finger or is negative towards the parents is countered by the lawyers comment of 'this is just madness' 'there is no truth in this'...etc...

 

They are 100% responsible for the disappearance of their daughter whether they had any involvement at all we will never know

[Bayfox]

58 minutes ago, Thracian said:

I'd imagine at least half the world would have "issues" with your level of "issues" criteria but then, when I read the papers, listen to the news and add in my experiences on Leicester market and one or two other areas, you could well be right.  

Look come on i like a drink. But seriously plan ahead or go without surely. Actually needing a drink to the point you would leave your kids home alone to go buy it. Odd no?

 

Maybe it's because we have 2. But normally either myself of the missus would go without incase of an emergency anyway. I know you can call an ambulance etc but we would always prefer to have the option of 1 of us getting in a car.

 

If one of us has both we also always make sure we know we have someone we can call as well as the thought of having to take both to hospital or something doesn't strike me as much fun if your trying to concentrate on one.

 

Just me. Ok then

[bovril]

21 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

Look come on i like a drink. But seriously plan ahead or go without surely. Actually needing a drink to the point you would leave your kids home alone to go buy it. Odd no?

Oddbins, surely?

[MPH]

5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

According to Wikipedia, they were eating 55m away, not "hundreds of metres", although they had to go a longer way round to get to the flat and didn't have a view of the street windows. One or other of the group checked on the kids every 30 mins or so.

I'm not denying that they made a misjudgment, but find it interesting that the scale of that misjudgment tends to be talked up.

 

 

 

 

I dont care if its the terraced house next door.. there is no excuse  for leaving your children in a house by themselves. It's unforgivable IMHO

 

 

I'm however not of the opinion that they should be charged with neglect as there is absolutely nothing that anyone could say or do that would make them  more sorry, or regret their actions even more...

[leicesterlad1989]

The only person I feel sorry for in this whole ordeal his Madeleine. To be frank she's either been snatched away from her family or she has been murdered and it's all down to the people who were responsible for her.

I am sorry if my opinions come across harsh but as a parent your first priority is your children. If you go away on a family holiday, your holiday is based around your kids not your kids around your holiday. There's no excuse for leaving children of that age unattended.

 

One has to think that if they were from a council estate in Leicester, would they have been treated as they have been? I doubt that very much.

 

They are guilty of negligence straight the way. Whether they are guilty of anything else, we may never know. As some have said, they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.  

[Bayfox]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Oddbins, surely?

Do they still exist.

[Alf Bentley]

6 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

Do they still exist.

 

I had to check that as I thought they'd gone bust.

 

Turns out they do still exist, after a relaunch, but on a much reduced scale - mainly in London.

[The Doctor]

8 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

According to Wikipedia, they were eating 55m away, not "hundreds of metres", although they had to go a longer way round to get to the flat and didn't have a view of the street windows. One or other of the group checked on the kids every 30 mins or so.

I'm not denying that they made a misjudgment, but find it interesting that the scale of that misjudgment tends to be talked up.

 

I'm also interested in the circumstances in which people think parents should be condemned. If you, @Wookie or @The Doctor or anyone else feel like it, what are your opinions on these hypothetical scenarios:

 

1) A father is paying for his 3-year-old daughter's toys at the cash till and there's a complication. Suddenly, he realises his daughter has gone. An alert staff member notices her leaving the shop with a suspicious man. Lucky escape!

2) A mother is cooking in the kitchen. Her 2-year-old is securely in his playpen in the lounge. After about 15 minutes, she receives a phone call. An acquaintance has just seen her son 400m away. He has somehow escaped from the playpen, walked 200m down a main road with no pavements and then another 200m down pavements to the village shop, where she finds him.

3) A mother sits her 1-year-old at the back of a bed ready to change his nappy, then realises she's left the nappies at the other side of the room. He's not crawling yet so she feels safe to leave him for 10 seconds while she crosses the room for the nappies. But he chooses that moment to crawl for the first time and falls head first onto the carpeted floor. She rushes him to A&E. Thankfully, he is unhurt.

4) A father is dashing about making food for his 2-year-old, who is safely crawling around the lounge floor. Out of the corner of his eye, he notices the bottle of laxative on a shelf lower than it should be, but is confident that the medical safety lock will be on. 20 seconds later, he dashes back in to find his son taking a glug from the bottle. It makes the lad vomit but no harm done, thankfully.

5) A mother sees her husband off for his night shift. She puts her daughter to bed. She has had a truly shitty day and is looking forward to a couple of glasses of wine...then realises she's forgotten to buy any. She waits until she is sure her daughter is sound asleep, then, after locking the door, pops to the off-licence across the road for a bottle. Within 4 minutes she is home. Her daughter is still sleeping soundly.

6) A father is doing a bit of decorating. His 2-year-old has been coming and going from the garden, but no problem as they live out in the country. Then he realises that he hasn't seen him for a while. Frantic when he finds that the lad is not in the garden, he is so relieved when he finds him outside a neighbour's house, watching the bloke work on his extension.

 

Which of these parents would you condemn - and would it change anything if the outcomes had been different?

 

Facecloths answers pretty much mirror my own - I'd consider anyone leaving their child home alone to be irresponsible. I'd not condemn those who's child snuck away, but I'd consider there to be a dividing line between children escaping their own home or parents sight (children doing what children do) and parents actually abandoning their child.

[Thracian]

3 hours ago, Shaneb said:

The documentary and piece I saw said something along the lines of....

 

It was the second night they had left the kids. the first night was fine, although the twins were apparently crying and Madeline may have been awoken by them....The next day she asked her parents where they were and they said at the restaurant (where they went the second night).

 

Theory has it (and one that's been thrown around in different forms) is that she left the apartment on the second night to go find her parents as she may have awoken and she was either snatched or ran over or something of that nature, which to me has some legs, but unfortunately their parents were too focused on not making themselves look bad that we will never know what happened  

 

No matter what has happened there has been a very focused effort from their parents to destroy every story that may paint them in negative light....the detective was sued for releasing a book, there have been a couple of other documentaries stopped publishing and every article that comes up that points the finger or is negative towards the parents is countered by the lawyers comment of 'this is just madness' 'there is no truth in this'...etc...

 

They are 100% responsible for the disappearance of their daughter whether they had any involvement at all we will never know

If anyone else had anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine the parents are not "100%" responsible at all.

 

And everything you say or quote is speculation.

 

"Apparently" crying, "may have been" awoken, "theory has it that", "snatched or ran over or something of that nature".....what on earth is convincing about any of it?

 

  

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

@Alf Bentley

 

You missed obvious example number 7

 

7) Then leader of the country leaves daughter in pub as he goes about his business!

[Thracian]

3 hours ago, leicesterlad1989 said:

The only person I feel sorry for in this whole ordeal his Madeleine. To be frank she's either been snatched away from her family or she has been murdered and it's all down to the people who were responsible for her.

I am sorry if my opinions come across harsh but as a parent your first priority is your children. If you go away on a family holiday, your holiday is based around your kids not your kids around your holiday. There's no excuse for leaving children of that age unattended.

 

One has to think that if they were from a council estate in Leicester, would they have been treated as they have been? I doubt that very much.

 

They are guilty of negligence straight the way. Whether they are guilty of anything else, we may never know. As some have said, they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.  

 

ALL down to the people responsible for her?  How's that? Might it not be down to whoever abducted, harmed, sold or killed her if any of those things happened? And more expecially if they shouldn't have been free to roam in the first place.

 

The McCanns might have been stupid, some might say negligent.

 

But that doesn't in any way excuse what others might have done in relation to Madeleine. Nor does it excuse "if, but and maybe" speculation.  

 

 

    

 

 

          

[Guest]

The hypothetical example of a mother dashing out for a bottle of wine after putting her child to bed is an interesting one. At first I'm inclined to think that's incredibly juvenile and careless. But, in this case where it is literally across the road, is it any more dangerous than going back to the garden shed, or putting out the bins, or quickly popping next door to see if your elderly neighbour was alright? All of which could involve the same amount of time and distance?

[fuchsntf]

10 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Seriously, what the **** are you on about?   You've completely missed the point and seem hellbent on bringing your own experience into it. Wookie is talking about parents willfully choosing to leave their children alone, whilst they eat hundreds of metres away, he's not critiscising people who lose sight of their kids for a second and something bad happens. He's not mentioned bad guys and the prospect of people changing. You making an argument against something nobody has said  

 

As I said earlier, your point about it taking just a second highlights why what they did was so bad. You can lose a child in a heartbeat from a not looking at them, so why the **** would you choose to spend an hour with them completely our of sight and earshot? There's a reason why there are nurseries, and babysitters and people ask family members to watch children when they go out or go to work, because people know they can't leave them alone for hours on end whilst they are a long way away.

A few simular posts....and this is what I cant get into my head. Parents leaving their Young kids alone, to go to a restaurant in a

Totally strange Overseas Holiday complex. Even now it leaves me with cold shivers.

I have 4 kids and 2 grankids. I refuse to push or carry that fear, by preventing my kids having a certain amount of freedom,

BUT even when they Got older, and when my 3 girls were teenagers, and freedom of late nights and making their own way home,

Left me still worrying, just as much as when they were young Kids....The same for my Son, and unknown friends, what scrapes

they could of got into. Giving a certain amount of freedom is natural..

kids playing with their Mates through the summer, and playing around The streets on  any Estate, in any village,

or town is/was normal.The bogeyman was always just around the corner, but kids (Older/young)together, or nosey neighbours,

Keeps the sanity.  In southern lands 5-6 yr old going to the shops, is still the norm.

But, leaving them alone on holiday with no older child or babysitter.....away from the accommodation. I will Never understand,

and both parents  Doctors....

 

[Alf Bentley]

7 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Ok

 

1) That would fall under the taking his eyes off the child for a split second category. Could happen at anytime in a busy place. A momentary lapse of concentration, a distraction from his other child or something else. Nobody to blame and he was preyed on by a opportunist. Wouldn't condemn that parent.

2) Probably should have been sticking her head in every so often to check. The fact a 2 year old managed to get out of a play pen, out the house and 400m down the road with is pretty shite. Her actions in placing her child in a secure within earshot and with quick access to check on it is fine, her subsequent actions of not keeping an eye on the child every so often, not so good. Not gonna condemn her, but she needs to be more alert I'd say.

3) I think that's happened to a lot of parents in some shape or form. Happened to me sister with her son. You feel like a proper idiot. But as the child is constantly within sight and earshot it means you're just unlucky that this has happened.

4) Bit stupid. If there's a chance they can get to it, move it. What's 5 seconds to move the bottle to a safer location going to cost you?

5) As Bayfox says, you've got problems if you're that desperate for wine. She's willingly left her child alone in the house with no supervision. It's not just the chance of somebody taking the child, it's also the chance to child wakes up and finds themselves alone and is scared. Also they have a house to themselves, they could get hold of almost anything, including sharp objects, climbing up cabinets that could fall on them or filling a bath with a small amount of water and drowning. Things that under even the slightest supervision wouldn't happen. This is the closest on your list to the McCann's and is in no way acceptable. 

6) Is similar to 2. He's not done anything wrong as such, just needs to be more vigilant and check the child a bit more. The fact the kids got so far away without him being aware is a bit worrying.

 

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Facecloths answers pretty much mirror my own - I'd consider anyone leaving their child home alone to be irresponsible. I'd not condemn those who's child snuck away, but I'd consider there to be a dividing line between children escaping their own home or parents sight (children doing what children do) and parents actually abandoning their child.

 

Right, confession time.... They weren't hypothetical examples. They were all real, if slightly disguised events: (1) James Bulger's mother; (2) My mother (with my 2-year-old brother); (3), (4) & (5) Me, in my worst 3 parenting moments; (6) Ben Needham's grandparents.

 

- Clarification re. (4), the liquid laxative: What 5 seconds to move the bottle would have meant would have been my daughter's food burnt, when I was confident (wrongly, as it turns out) that, in the unlikely event that she grabbed the bottle, she wouldn't be able to open it because we always put the medical safety lid on securely. To my mind, that is in the same category as (3), the fall from the bed - an understandable, if complacent error of judgment, combined with a bit of bad luck.

- Clarification re. (5), the wine: My daughter was 2 at the time and asleep in a high-sided cot that she could not escape from, on the 1st floor of a locked house: the chances of an intruder, sharp objects, climbing cabinets and filling baths were zero, effectively. What I did feel guilty about at the time, even though I only left for 4 minutes, was if she woke up crying and I didn't come....but then, as @winchesterton points out, that could easily have happened anyway. If I'd gone to the kitchen to make a cup of tea, I wouldn't necessarily have heard the monitor. Likewise, if you're asleep at night, you don't necessarily wake immediately.... Btw, though I've had my issues with drunkenness, I've never got legless while in charge of a child and wasn't seeking to do so on this occasion. I'd just had a bad day and had promised myself a couple of glasses of wine.

 

Some people seem to be quick to jump to harsh judgment of the errors of others. Maybe they are - or will become - perfect parents, unlike me? Maybe they will never take their eyes off their children, 24/7? If so, they are untypical of the parents I've known - almost all of whom would have stories similar to mine. Likewise, I've been to family-friendly pubs and they haven't been full of parents who never take their eyes off their children. Many check on their kids occasionally, but spend much of their time talking to friends, maybe watching a match...

 

To clarify, I think the six examples quoted involve misjudgments and imperfect conduct - of the sort that nearly all parents will be guilty of very occasionally. To me, examples (2) and (6) - my baby brother escaping from his playpen & Ben Needham's grandparents not noticing that he had wandered off - are errors not too dissimilar from the error of the McCanns: a bit of complacency and inattention, of the kind most people are guilty of. Funny enough, I find the McCanns' misplaced confidence that their children were in a safe place easier to understand than them being prepared to risk their children crying for up to half an hour without them hearing....but people are human and make mistakes. They then got horribly unlucky - and I feel for them, as well as their daughter.

 

If anything, my mother was over-attentive - but on the occasion quoted she made a mistake, as humans do. Similarly, nobody ever criticises Ben Needham's grandparents, do they?  Apparently they were renovating their house, their grandson was popping in and out from the garden and they didn't notice for a while that he had wandered off....and sadly got involved in a fatal accident, if the police are correct. Should we loudly condemn them for their inattention, too? Perhaps one or two of us could accuse them of throwing their grandson under the bulldozer? No, there's something about the McCanns that causes people to condemn them vitriolically, in a way they don't condemn others....Is it the fact that they are middle-class and self-controlled? Is it that they have been in the public eye so much, that people get angry and uneasy? As there's no solution to the Madeleine disappearance, do they just want them to get off their TV screens? I find the psychology of the people who pick them out for condemnation interesting.

[leicesterlad1989]

13 hours ago, Thracian said:

 

ALL down to the people responsible for her?  How's that? Might it not be down to whoever abducted, harmed, sold or killed her if any of those things happened? And more expecially if they shouldn't have been free to roam in the first place.

 

The McCanns might have been stupid, some might say negligent.

 

But that doesn't in any way excuse what others might have done in relation to Madeleine. Nor does it excuse "if, but and maybe" speculation.  

 

 

    

 

 

          

Is it not a parents job to protect their children from all the bad things that can happen in life? Unfortunately lapses in judgement and concentration do happen and that is forgivable, as nobody is perfect. However what they did was not a lapse in judgement, it was total neglect of their children and not one person on this forum or anywhere else in life will change my beliefs on that.

 

Please do not confuse me as someone who is excuses what others may have done in relation to her disappearance because I am not excusing them. I am merely pointing out that the whole instance of her 'disappearance' could have been pretty much prevented by better parenting and not such a selfish act as leaving them unattended like that. This also wasn't the first time they did this.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Thracian said:

If anyone else had anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine the parents are not "100%" responsible at all.

 

And everything you say or quote is speculation.

 

"Apparently" crying, "may have been" awoken, "theory has it that", "snatched or ran over or something of that nature".....what on earth is convincing about any of it?

 

  

My point maybe didn't get across...I am not claiming they had anything to do with the disappearance, I just said they are 100% responsible. They left their children unattended in an unsafe situation. that is not responsible parenting, therefore making them 100% responsible. 

[Carl the Llama]

Surprised the dogs haven't been mentioned yet.  Most damning bit of evidence imo.

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Shaneb said:

My point maybe didn't get across...I am not claiming they had anything to do with the disappearance, I just said they are 100% responsible. They left their children unattended in an unsafe situation. that is not responsible parenting, therefore making them 100% responsible. 

Like a rape victim is 100% responsible for being drunk in a short skirt?  Hmm?

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

Surprised the dogs haven't been mentioned yet.  Most damning bit of evidence imo.

Dogs can smell a lot of history though, could have been blood for many reasons, could be that someone died in a room in the hotel (people do) and the sheets ended up in there.  So many possibilities.