Madeleine Mccann Australian Documentary

[Wymsey]

Police confirm a 'critical' line of enquiry is still being followed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39706194

[Manwell Pablo]

4 hours ago, Facecloth said:

See you gave yourself a chance to hear something. You might not have heard your daughter climb out the window, but you might have. You were also there when she rang the doorbell. If you'd been down the pub or visiting your mate a few door down and the house was empty, you'd have stood no chance of hearing anything. That's the problem with the McCanns, they gave themselves no chance to stop anything that might go wrong, whether that be abduction, or injury or death to the child in some way. Yes, shit happens, even when you're there, but that's no excuse for not being there. The fact people can't understand this (and they are parents in some cases) is a little worrying.

 

It seems like self justification for making parental mistakes to me which people really don't need to do. We all make mistakes and there isn't an example given in this thread in the same ball park as what they did.

 

Mine are both close to the age she was when she went missing I'd not dare to leave them unattended for half an hour In a foreign country, more so for the reason they would be utterly potentially terrified for 25 minutes if they woke up as opposed to them going missing. 

[Alf Bentley]

13 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

It seems a few on here still miss the Point on the parents.

They delibrately and knowingly, left their children , the oldest being 4, alone unattended, in a totally strange, unknown enviroment, where they never asked themselves the  question what happens, if they wake up ( visit every 30 minutes, I ask you !!) Nobody in the appartment ?? !!!

 

8 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

It seems like self justification for making parental mistakes to me which people really don't need to do. We all make mistakes and there isn't an example given in this thread in the same ball park as what they did.

 

Mine are both close to the age she was when she went missing I'd not dare to leave them unattended for half an hour In a foreign country, more so for the reason they would be utterly potentially terrified for 25 minutes if they woke up as opposed to them going missing. 

 

You both mention the part of the McCann story that I can't relate to myself: choosing to leave such young children out of earshot for such a long time. In the personal example that I told, where I left my daughter for 4 minutes (asleep and secure in a cot, room and house from which she could not escape), I felt really, really bad at the idea that she might wake up and cry for 3 minutes with me not there....even though that could have happened if I'd gone to the kitchen to make a cup of tea or been asleep in bed.

 

But parents make parenting decisions that other people can't relate to. Some have the theory that you shouldn't repeatedly return to a crying baby as babies can use this as a control mechanism that is unhealthy to their development. Not an idea we ever had to consider as our daughter never cried frequently unless there was a particular problem. Richard Branson says his Mum let him out of the family car when he was 4 and left him to find his way home a few miles across fields, to teach him independence. Once, I was in a pub garden with a mate who has a daughter the same age as mine (about 4-5 at the time?). In the play area, his daughter climbed onto the roof of a little house on top of a climbing apparatus. She was walking up and down on the ridged roof about 5-6ft above the ground - and above metal climbing equipment. I was absolutely petrified, but he was quite calm, confident his daredevil daughter would be fine - and she was.

 

But the issue of the McCanns leaving their children alone for 30 minutes where they might wake up scared (a decision I can't relate to, either) needs to be separated from the abduction issue. They believed that they were in safe, family-friendly complex in a quiet holiday resort and that their kids would be safe in accommodation with the windows shut (but not locked) and curtains closed. It turns out that they'd misjudged things, as I had when my daughter fell off the bed or took a glug of laxative, as my Mum had when she thought my brother was secure in his playpen or as Ben Needham's grandparents had when they thought he was safe coming and going from their Greek holiday home. 

 

I wouldn't have left a young child alone and out of earshot/sight for 30 minutes, but they were extraordinarily unfortunate to have their child abducted (I presume) - and then to face public vilification for their misjudgment.

 

How would I be judged if my daughter had fractured her skull when she fell from the bed? How would Fuchs be judged if his daughter had come to harm after getting out of her window? How would David Cameron be judged if an opportunist paedophile or terrorist had been lurking in the pub when he left his daughter there? How would Branson's mother be judged if he'd come to harm in the fields? Should we make a harsh judgment of Ben Needham's grandparents who let their grandson wander in and out of their holiday home on a Greek island while they renovated?

 

Whatever a kid's age, we're always having to make judgments: When is the monitor no longer necessary? When is it safe to remove the stair gates? Is it safe for her to climb that high? Is she ready to walk to school alone? Under what terms should he/she be allowed to go and play with friends in the park? What info do you need about where your 16-year-old is, who they're with and what they're doing? (Haven't reached that one yet - and not looking forward to it!). We all make misjudgments - and sometimes make judgments that others wouldn't make. But, other than in cases of blatant abuse/neglect, I don't think we should rush to condemn those who make human mistakes....particularly when they suffer the awful consequences that the McCanns have.

 

I'll withdraw from this thread now, before things get angsty, nasty or depressing. 

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

You both mention the part of the McCann story that I can't relate to myself: choosing to leave such young children out of earshot for such a long time. In the personal example that I told, where I left my daughter for 4 minutes (asleep and secure in a cot, room and house from which she could not escape), I felt really, really bad at the idea that she might wake up and cry for 3 minutes with me not there....even though that could have happened if I'd gone to the kitchen to make a cup of tea or been asleep in bed.

 

But parents make parenting decisions that other people can't relate to. Some have the theory that you shouldn't repeatedly return to a crying baby as babies can use this as a control mechanism that is unhealthy to their development. Not an idea we ever had to consider as our daughter never cried frequently unless there was a particular problem. Richard Branson says his Mum let him out of the family car when he was 4 and left him to find his way home a few miles across fields, to teach him independence. Once, I was in a pub garden with a mate who has a daughter the same age as mine (about 4-5 at the time?). In the play area, his daughter climbed onto the roof of a little house on top of a climbing apparatus. She was walking up and down on the ridged roof about 5-6ft above the ground - and above metal climbing equipment. I was absolutely petrified, but he was quite calm, confident his daredevil daughter would be fine - and she was.

 

But the issue of the McCanns leaving their children alone for 30 minutes where they might wake up scared (a decision I can't relate to, either) needs to be separated from the abduction issue. They believed that they were in safe, family-friendly complex in a quiet holiday resort and that their kids would be safe in accommodation with the windows shut (but not locked) and curtains closed. It turns out that they'd misjudged things, as I had when my daughter fell off the bed or took a glug of laxative, as my Mum had when she thought my brother was secure in his playpen or as Ben Needham's grandparents had when they thought he was safe coming and going from their Greek holiday home. 

 

I wouldn't have left a young child alone and out of earshot/sight for 30 minutes, but they were extraordinarily unfortunate to have their child abducted (I presume) - and then to face public vilification for their misjudgment.

 

How would I be judged if my daughter had fractured her skull when she fell from the bed? How would Fuchs be judged if his daughter had come to harm after getting out of her window? How would David Cameron be judged if an opportunist paedophile or terrorist had been lurking in the pub when he left his daughter there? How would Branson's mother be judged if he'd come to harm in the fields? Should we make a harsh judgment of Ben Needham's grandparents who let their grandson wander in and out of their holiday home on a Greek island while they renovated?

 

Whatever a kid's age, we're always having to make judgments: When is the monitor no longer necessary? When is it safe to remove the stair gates? Is it safe for her to climb that high? Is she ready to walk to school alone? Under what terms should he/she be allowed to go and play with friends in the park? What info do you need about where your 16-year-old is, who they're with and what they're doing? (Haven't reached that one yet - and not looking forward to it!). We all make misjudgments - and sometimes make judgments that others wouldn't make. But, other than in cases of blatant abuse/neglect, I don't think we should rush to condemn those who make human mistakes....particularly when they suffer the awful consequences that the McCanns have.

 

I'll withdraw from this thread now, before things get angsty, nasty or depressing. 

Not trying to be any type of Psychologist, but like I mentioned for the sake of all of us, its worth

people/posters to put it up for discussion, no matter what the opinions and views bring out.

We can all appreciate, what other parents, or even younger not yet married people think.

It shouldnt have us worrying more, we parents have enough to carry if what we do is correct,

Sort of nature of the beast...In other instances, we can even laugh when we remember, when

we were children, and Our parents Used to run around we kids  believing they were going OTT,

with their over protection or close caring.

In such issues brought Up on such forums, we should all be mature and listen well, and take in

the various views, without it degenerating into...anything nasty, angst , facing up to the depressive Side is not running away from such issues, forget tv experts sometkmes its good

For the normal folk and kin to discuss between themselves....using Social media or forums

When such issues Pop up and present Themselves.  

 

Even at 63 I can still learn and appreciate,

and respect others.  In some Work areas the modern world has called me a specialist,

My view and thoughts one stays an Apprentice until you draw your last breath, but one

can still show + share occasionally learnt Experiences, and find hopefully some wise words,

to pass on, not as fact but to be given thought and to discuss....

[leicesterlad1989]

4 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

You both mention the part of the McCann story that I can't relate to myself: choosing to leave such young children out of earshot for such a long time. In the personal example that I told, where I left my daughter for 4 minutes (asleep and secure in a cot, room and house from which she could not escape), I felt really, really bad at the idea that she might wake up and cry for 3 minutes with me not there....even though that could have happened if I'd gone to the kitchen to make a cup of tea or been asleep in bed.

 

But parents make parenting decisions that other people can't relate to. Some have the theory that you shouldn't repeatedly return to a crying baby as babies can use this as a control mechanism that is unhealthy to their development. Not an idea we ever had to consider as our daughter never cried frequently unless there was a particular problem. Richard Branson says his Mum let him out of the family car when he was 4 and left him to find his way home a few miles across fields, to teach him independence. Once, I was in a pub garden with a mate who has a daughter the same age as mine (about 4-5 at the time?). In the play area, his daughter climbed onto the roof of a little house on top of a climbing apparatus. She was walking up and down on the ridged roof about 5-6ft above the ground - and above metal climbing equipment. I was absolutely petrified, but he was quite calm, confident his daredevil daughter would be fine - and she was.

 

But the issue of the McCanns leaving their children alone for 30 minutes where they might wake up scared (a decision I can't relate to, either) needs to be separated from the abduction issue. They believed that they were in safe, family-friendly complex in a quiet holiday resort and that their kids would be safe in accommodation with the windows shut (but not locked) and curtains closed. It turns out that they'd misjudged things, as I had when my daughter fell off the bed or took a glug of laxative, as my Mum had when she thought my brother was secure in his playpen or as Ben Needham's grandparents had when they thought he was safe coming and going from their Greek holiday home. 

 

I wouldn't have left a young child alone and out of earshot/sight for 30 minutes, but they were extraordinarily unfortunate to have their child abducted (I presume) - and then to face public vilification for their misjudgment.

 

How would I be judged if my daughter had fractured her skull when she fell from the bed? How would Fuchs be judged if his daughter had come to harm after getting out of her window? How would David Cameron be judged if an opportunist paedophile or terrorist had been lurking in the pub when he left his daughter there? How would Branson's mother be judged if he'd come to harm in the fields? Should we make a harsh judgment of Ben Needham's grandparents who let their grandson wander in and out of their holiday home on a Greek island while they renovated?

 

Whatever a kid's age, we're always having to make judgments: When is the monitor no longer necessary? When is it safe to remove the stair gates? Is it safe for her to climb that high? Is she ready to walk to school alone? Under what terms should he/she be allowed to go and play with friends in the park? What info do you need about where your 16-year-old is, who they're with and what they're doing? (Haven't reached that one yet - and not looking forward to it!). We all make misjudgments - and sometimes make judgments that others wouldn't make. But, other than in cases of blatant abuse/neglect, I don't think we should rush to condemn those who make human mistakes....particularly when they suffer the awful consequences that the McCanns have.

 

I'll withdraw from this thread now, before things get angsty, nasty or depressing. 

Don't withdraw from this thread just because you offer different points or perspective. As I've said earlier on in the thread, nobody will change my mind when it comes to my feelings on the McCanns and how they neglected their children that night and the previous occasion they left their children unattended. I do however take on board the points you and other make.

 

I 'cracked' my head open as a 4 year old lad. Was this down to neglect? No, of course not. Should my parents be hold accountable for that? Absolutely not. I was a child who was pissing about on my bike and I fell. Did they feel guilty? Absolutely! Still gets brought up to this day. What Richard Branson's mother did would be neglect in my eyes too but as you say, she got away with it. Doesn't mean it was right.  

 

As a parent you constantly have to make decisions based on how you judge a situation and we can't always get things right but certain things are just common sense. You don't leave your children unattended for such a long period of time, whilst you go out on a jolly! I'd assume they did what they did on the night of Madeleines disappearance because they got away with it the occasion before. Again, doesn't make what they did right.

 

To me, the lead up to the disappearance and the actual alleged abduction should be treated as two separate cases. One is a case against the parents due neglect and another against the culprits who abducted her. Whether the two cases are linked, we may never know.

 

You are correct though, the parents do have to suffer the awful consequences and have to live with that for the rest of their life. There's other bits of the case that don't add up but I suppose that's for a conspiracy thread.

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

12 minutes ago, leicesterlad1989 said:

Don't withdraw from this thread just because you offer different points or perspective. As I've said earlier on in the thread, nobody will change my mind when it comes to my feelings on the McCanns and how they neglected their children that night and the previous occasion they left their children unattended. I do however take on board the points you and other make.

 

I 'cracked' my head open as a 4 year old lad. Was this down to neglect? No, of course not. Should my parents be hold accountable for that? Absolutely not. I was a child who was pissing about on my bike and I fell. Did they feel guilty? Absolutely! Still gets brought up to this day. What Richard Branson's mother did would be neglect in my eyes too but as you say, she got away with it. Doesn't mean it was right.  

 

As a parent you constantly have to make decisions based on how you judge a situation and we can't always get things right but certain things are just common sense. You don't leave your children unattended for such a long period of time, whilst you go out on a jolly! I'd assume they did what they did on the night of Madeleines disappearance because they got away with it the occasion before. Again, doesn't make what they did right.

 

To me, the lead up to the disappearance and the actual alleged abduction should be treated as two separate cases. One is a case against the parents due neglect and another against the culprits who abducted her. Whether the two cases are linked, we may never know.

 

You are correct though, the parents do have to suffer the awful consequences and have to live with that for the rest of their life. There's other bits of the case that don't add up but I suppose that's for a conspiracy thread.

 

 

 

 

Fair comment, even if we differ slightly in our perspectives.

 

I wouldn't withdraw just because others disagreed. More because I've pretty much said anything I had to say, and know that getting into extended, repetitive wrangling gets me down (my problem, not other peoples). 

[FLAN]

Anyone see the Sky programme last night. Not much new info but a couple of odd points raised

the parents fell out with Leicestershire police over their handling and I've since read they also fell out with the Met. To this extent they haven't shared all findings of private investigations with the police. 

 

When the Met picked it up again they were given a narrow focus on abduction only and a former senior detective said it was wrong not to start with a clean slate and focus on any possible scenario.  Basically they were told not to look at the parents or friends. 

 

Despite all the money spent it seems senior experts don't believe the case was handled well by U.K. Police in addition to the open criticism of the Portuguese police 

 

[Thracian]

Overall, I'm appalled by the way people are so readily "judgemental" of parents yet wash their hands of the human reasons kids have to be so closely protected and the fact that our society seems to increasingly wash its hands of their responsibilities where such known dangers exist.  

 

For instance I've occasionally asked people: "Would you willingly deport a child molester/premeditated murderer/predatory rapist/drugs dealer to the Antarctic with minimal survival supplies? If not, what would you actually do about them to protect society on a permanent basis?

 

Answers have generally come back as being against the former, for whatever reasons and, most often, as "errrr, don't really know" (it's not my responsibility) on the latter.

 

But if it's the parents responsibility to look after their children it's society's responsiblity to clear the streets of reasonable recognisable danger beforehand, and that should start with provenly/repeatedly dangerous humans which are often more of a threat than anything inanimate, though not always in the case of storm, extreme heat or even air pollution.  

 

If there's a dangerous dog on the street we put it down. Or most any wild animal. With humans we don't even put them away for very long or anything provenly beneficial to either them or society.

 

It's hypocritical considering people are no less "animal" than any others and if human beings have better brains, they've even less excuse than animals who might be acting more on instinct than calculation.

 

Ironically the strongest brake on society taking its proper responsibility in relation to humans is a supposed unwillingness to be over-judgemental. Instead while some condemn parents outright (on here as much as anywhere)  we listen to all sorts of excuses and contrived garbage in relation to dangerous people and their various crimes..

 

Sometimes we even (sometimes rightly)  take all their children from neglectful parents (there is so much demand, of course, for the adoption/fostering of kids) yet we sometimes give light or suspended sentences to dangerous/violent/predatory criminals because there's no gain to be made at all from keeping them in prison and, arguably sometimes, a greater danger in doing that anyway, for all that both "excuses" represent an abdication of responsibility. Hypocrisy abounds when it comes to people and in so many ways.      

 

 

 

 

                  

[ealingfox]

Anyone watching the old BBC doccy?

 

Feels like more than 10 years ago tbh

[foxoffderby]

The 3 blokes who were robbing hotels before the Mccanns arrived.

[Wymsey]

36 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

Anyone watching the old BBC doccy?

 

Feels like more than 10 years ago tbh

It was better than I thought it would be - professionally-produced insight and deep relevant analysis.

 

All I can say really on this is just a shame no cctv cameras etc were in the location at the time or surrounding areas, as if they were this mystery over the disappearanc would've been solved within days imo.