A New Political Movement or Uprising?

[MPH]

Surprised no one has mentioned this song yet!

 

 

 

 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

9 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

But enough of my thoughts - what kind of "political upheaval" do you advocate? 

 

 

Well, one thing I feel that is different on continental Europe is they seem to value social time more and certainly place a greater emphasis on food and eating together. Its more a live fest, work second culture.

 

In this country, the emphasis on work is over dominate to the extent where some are working just in the hope that one day they might be able to afford to live. There are social economics ingrained in this notion, so it requires a change in political thinking to change behaviours across the board.

[James.]

56 minutes ago, MattP said:

Who will they turn on when they realise he can't do 10% of what he says and as always, runs out of other people's money?

 

Revolutions never work out well for anyone except the leaders.

 

I have a feeling he'll get to be PM one day but it will collapse within months - every generation has to make and then learn from their mistakes when they go for idealism rather than realism, the youth now are no different.

There's a difference between idealism and a different kind of realism to what we are currently being offered. I don't think you should write off the concerns of millions of people of wide ranging social status, age, financial status, etc as just youthful naivety. We can do better than what we have and people are now demanding it more vocally and more vociferously than before.

[Strokes]

If people are engaging in politics that's a good thing, it might not be what I want but that's democracy. If enough people want it, it will happen.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, James. said:

There's a difference between idealism and a different kind of realism to what we are currently being offered. I don't think you should write off the concerns of millions of people of wide ranging social status, age, financial status, etc as just youthful naivety. We can do better than what we have and people are now demanding it more vocally and more vociferously than before.

The manifesto Labour just stood on was in no way realistic in any form, it's OK hoping for something different but the idea everything can be free with the wealthiest just paying is a political idea as tried and failed as those people who thought sailing to the end of the World would see them fall off.

 

Some of the stuff now starting to come out of his mouth today - reclaiming property ffs - is starting to seriously doubt whether I want us to come out of the human rights act, this is dangerous politics.

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, ramboacdc said:

corbyn spoke at last years glasto.

 

proof: I watched him

 

counter proof: I was twatted. 

 

Yiu must have been proper twatted, he was scheduled to appear but pulled out after Brexit result.

 

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

2 Months ago everyone thought Corbyn was a joke and the tories were going to win a landslide. He promises middle class kids free tuition and all of a sudden he's the new messiah.

 

 

This is is exactly the dismissive attitude that the Tories took during the election and it cost them. The promise of a new fairer society is a lot more appealing to young people than free stuff. If the right still hasn't woken up to that then the next election will be chastening.

 

50 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The idealist in me says that something has to give.

 

The cynic in me has read about it all before and thinks it won't.

 

Kinda how I feel, especially if there isn't another election for 5 years, Labour will have lost momentum and possibly imploded with infighting the Tories will have recovered somewhat, Brexit will be a reality. Not saying Labour won't win in 5 years time, but it won't be this Labour.

 

21 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Well, one thing I feel that is different on continental Europe is they seem to value social time more and certainly place a greater emphasis on food and eating together. Its more a live fest, work second culture.

 

In this country, the emphasis on work is over dominate to the extent where some are working just in the hope that one day they might be able to afford to live. There are social economics ingrained in this notion, so it requires a change in political thinking to change behaviours across the board.

 

So true, I miss living in Spain and just having the streets filled with people out and about eating, drinking, chatting.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

 

 

 

This is is exactly the dismissive attitude that the Tories took during the election and it cost them. The promise of a new fairer society is a lot more appealing to young people than free stuff. If the right still hasn't woken up to that then the next election will be chastening.

 

 

Free tuition fees, free social care, more free child care, big payrises in the public sector, trains magically getting better by being nationalised, of course that sounds appealing, trouble is it's all bullshit. Money doesn't grow on trees

[DJ Barry Hammond]

4 minutes ago, Captain... said:

 

So true, I miss living in Spain and just having the streets filled with people out and about eating, drinking, chatting.

 

 

With would you say the added bonus that the likeness of a random fight breaking out is much reduced?

[Lovejoy]

1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said:

I'm not sure it will be fun when the money actually does run out. We have envious militant momentum members running around taking stuff the believe they should have it would be like a 3rd world country with mob rule. Again I urge people to read up on Venezuela one of the largest oil reserves in the world, now bankrupt given much praise by Corbyn and McDonnell for its socialist and economic policies.

 

Could also **** up 2 or 3 generations!!

 

I will be extremely pissed if the youth vote causes me to lose everything I've worked hard over 20 years for.

This is exactly what I meant . I'm 27, yet bored of being shot down by people of my generation who disagree with my views. Part of me thinks we need a term of left wing government for people to see the outcome.

[Charl91]

1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said:

.

 

Could also **** up 2 or 3 generations!!

 

I will be extremely pissed if the youth vote causes me to lose everything I've worked hard over 20 years for.

 

Yeah, it would be bloody awful if there was some sort of vote that would screw up the next few generations, and everyone voted for it. Imagine that. Would be absolutely ridiculous.

 

Would be even worse if it was a close run thing too. Imagine if, say, only 52% of the population voted for it, and it went through and changed everything. Glad we'll never have to deal with anything like that. 

 

Luckily though, I don't think the youth (misguided as they are) would ever vote for something as stupid as that, so hopefully we'll be safe.

[LiberalFox]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Free tuition fees, free social care, more free child care, big payrises in the public sector, trains magically getting better by being nationalised, of course that sounds appealing, trouble is it's all bullshit. Money doesn't grow on trees

 

The Tories had been handing out pension increases, massively raised the inheritance tax threshold, lowered the top rate of income tax, raised the income tax threshold etc. 

 

Young people just woke up to the fact that you get free stuff if you vote and if you don't vote then the government takes your stuff and gives it to other people. 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, LiberalFox said:

 

The Tories had been handing out pension increases, massively raised the inheritance tax threshold, lowered the top rate of income tax, raised the income tax threshold etc. 

 

Young people just woke up to the fact that you get free stuff if you vote and if you don't vote then the government takes your stuff and gives it to other people. 

The pension thing, fair enough, but when they tried to scale that back Labour attacked them for it. As for lowering tax, tax thresholds and inheritance tax, that isn't giving people free stuff that's letting them keep more of their own, hard earned money.

[Sir Shep]

Just for the record, I wouldn't support any far left parties no more than I'd support any far right ones. No party really offers any equality, just fairy dreams and power for the rich on the left or right divide. 

[Thracian]

3 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Well, one thing I feel that is different on continental Europe is they seem to value social time more and certainly place a greater emphasis on food and eating together. Its more a live fest, work second culture.

 

In this country, the emphasis on work is over dominate to the extent where some are working just in the hope that one day they might be able to afford to live. There are social economics ingrained in this notion, so it requires a change in political thinking to change behaviours across the board.

 

 

Ahhh but what change of thinking? And how will it work?

 

 

 

 

 

  

  

[DJ Barry Hammond]

5 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

Ahhh but what change of thinking? And how will it work?

 

 

Well I believe in business in this country there used to be a pride in "a job done well" and that this was a shame important as making profit - possibly because these were family business with their names above the door, so quality mattered and that reflected in employment conditions.

 

These days, it's all about profit. People no the price of everything but the value of nothing. We're open all hours, work all hours, leaving ourselves no time to play. It's all disjointed. 

 

I accept the 9-5 has gone, but we need to move to position where 30-35 hours in a week can comfortably fund someone somewhere to live, food and a bit of enjoyment.  

[LiberalFox]

10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

The pension thing, fair enough, but when they tried to scale that back Labour attacked them for it. As for lowering tax, tax thresholds and inheritance tax, that isn't giving people free stuff that's letting them keep more of their own, hard earned money.

 

From the point of view of a young person, inheritances are just unearned wealth. On tax, it is only good for people if they are earning enough to take advantage of the tax cut. The point I was making is that policies have not been made neutrally but based on which demographic they affect most. I don't know why so many Tories are resistant to courting a younger vote, it will be their downfall.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

24 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Free tuition fees, free social care, more free child care, big payrises in the public sector, trains magically getting better by being nationalised, of course that sounds appealing, trouble is it's all bullshit. Money doesn't grow on trees

 

But there once was a time when this was the case... so what went wrong? 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

But there once was a time when this was the case... so what went wrong? 

There was never a time when the nationalised railway was a better service. Free tuition fees are affordable when 7% of school leavers went to university, not when around 45% of school leavers do. Social care? Massive rise in the older population. The rest, we ran out of money.

[Webbo]

15 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

 

From the point of view of a young person, inheritances are just unearned wealth. On tax, it is only good for people if they are earning enough to take advantage of the tax cut. The point I was making is that policies have not been made neutrally but based on which demographic they affect most. I don't know why so many Tories are resistant to courting a younger vote, it will be their downfall.

I don't have a problem with courting the younger vote but the economics don't change just because you're under 30.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I don't have a problem with courting the younger vote but the economics don't change just because you're under 30.

As earlier in the thread, again I ask...why the wholehearted endorsement of the infallibility of economic science results and dismissal of other (possibly harder) science results from one corner of the political spectrum?

 

Just seems a little odd.

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

As earlier in the thread, again I ask...why the wholehearted endorsement of the infallibility of economic science results and dismissal of other (possibly harder) science results from one corner of the political spectrum?

 

Just seems a little odd.

You don't need to be a scientist to know if you borrow money you have to pay it back.If you borrow more and more each year eventually you're not going to be able to pay it back. Just look at Greece.

[Thracian]

46 minutes ago, MattP said:

The manifesto Labour just stood on was in no way realistic in any form, it's OK hoping for something different but the idea everything can be free with the wealthiest just paying is a political idea as tried and failed as those people who thought sailing to the end of the World would see them fall off.

 

Some of the stuff now starting to come out of his mouth today - reclaiming property ffs - is starting to seriously doubt whether I want us to come out of the human rights act, this is dangerous politics.

 

And opportunism. 

 

People from across the political divide have opposed these big tower block developments as potentially dangerous since way back in the 70s.

 

Lots of these kinds of housing facilities are administered by different political councils and there's nothing new or political about those councils being mislead, illadvised,  irresponsible or eager to save money when making decisions concerning those buildings.

 

So for all that a far-reaching and urgent inquiry is needed,  the political opportunism is unwarranted and, for me, the very evolution of such housing only reflects the folly of accommodating large numbers of people anywhere without adequate infrastructure which is so often and so clearly apparent now. And tower blocks have never been "adequate" to me. They are often appalling places with even people I've known myself suffering fromimental ealth and loneliness problems to the point where they've been suicidal.  

 

Even the seemingly indeterminable problems of estimating how many people might have died likely reflects the problems caused by such dreadful buildings.

 

Surely the families living there would all be registered, but what about visitors either short or longer term?

 

Is there any record of how many were in the building at any particular time as there would be in a cruise liner or an aircraft? And if not why not?.

 

Surely it is basic health and safety and the sort of thing which would prevent the torture of families perhaps spending years not being able to come to terms with their loss or even knowing they've suffered a loss.

 

This has massive implications for the recording of all who live and visit housing blocks such as these, or even the wisdom of building these blocks  anywhere,whether in the so called rich boroughs of Kensington and Chelsea or in the heart of the East End or, say, Nechells in Birmingham.

 

They don't necessarily get more or less dangerous according to their location.

 

There are so many questions to be answered and I'm quite sure that when blame is apportioned it won't all be down to the local council, but will also involve what actually started the fire,  why the fire spread so quickly and unusually, safety procedures and advice to residents, and any contractors and/or their staff  who might have done work on the building and who might be feeling pretty awful right now wondering if they had inadvertently contributed to the tragedy for whatever reasons.

 

           

  

 

   

 

          

 

     

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

Surprised no one has mentioned this song yet!

 

 

 

 

Much better when i was a kid

 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You don't need to be a scientist to know if you borrow money you have to pay it back.If you borrow more and more each year eventually you're not going to be able to pay it back. Just look at Greece.

 

As you don't need to be a scientist to take a look and see how the Earth is changing (to use one example of many).

 

It just strikes me as rank hypocrisy (once again) where people adhere to economics as firm and settled science while dismissing possibly harder areas of science for their own reasons.

[Izzy]

It makes me laugh that Jeremy Corbyn has got the poshest, Tory boy names going. I've certainly never met a working class person called 'Jeremy' before'.

 

So he's now known instead by his young disciples as "Jezza" cos it's well street init...