Thracian Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 To think that we have voluntarily imported and ignored the sources of much of this conflict and anger. Finsbury Park was an attrocious, indefensible and cowardly act against people at prayer. Seemingly vengeful, totally against the concept of goodness or decency, and I wish well for all the survivors. Yet, once again, random people are caught up in the machinations of a conflict that shouldn't exist. And already the consequences are reflecting the inevitable impact of this shameful offence. After years of our allowing hoardes of fanatics to preach hatred and to advance their philosophy on our streets, the police are now being urged and obliged to react against those seeking to counter that philosophy, through acts of retaliation or incitement, when there should never have been the need for such action in the first place, and there never would be in an established Islamic land. Yet that means another subtle victory for those who seek to impose their ideals on our society, another step on the way to silencing the voices of protest in our once proud land of (relatively) free speech. We're effectively being bullied. Multi-culturalism generally works fine - except for the huge and seemingly immovable barrier of fundamentalist Islam. I say fundamentalist because I don't see broad society as being against those Muslims who seem to genuinely want to co-exist and have demonstrated as much in other countries like Egypt and Tunisia and with great risk to themselves - people who have sometimes come here to find a kinder more accepting world. it is against those who won't allow a tolerant, secular, all inclusive attitude, and who subscribe to ideals which are entirely against our own philosophies and the willingness to get-along, that the conflict centres and that even inclusionists flatly refuse to recognise or act against (perhaps because they're on the side of the fanatics). . And now, because of this appalling and rabidly counter-productive attack, even our police will be seemingly obliged to counter those who fight for our values and to effectively aid those who wish to change our way of life forever. We're like Turkeys voting for Christmas. When will we come to understand the dangers and what we risk throwing away anytime now?. Will the police actually become party to the fall of our society? Do people even understand the threat and what it is that makes Islam so different from other faiths?. Key in those words - "What Makes Islam so Different" - and read up for yourselves. Or something like: "Rights of Non-Believers in Islamic Lands" and read any of the texts that seek to explain - some fundamentalist, some much more moderate but all reflecting uncomfortable truths for followers of other faiths. What's going on now reflects things I anticipated and warned against years ago and should never have been allowed to evolve. We've now reached the "increased disruption" stage where all sorts of actions help create division while also impacting little by little on the economy, tourism, the feeling of being safe and on stable government. The cumulative effect is to seemingly create a need for urgent change which can prompt further successes for the fundamentalists in all sorts of ways I won't bother explaining - and will do now, without any doubt in my mind, nor any realistic hope of stopping them because the conviction's not there nor the unity or the will. How naively we're manipulated and the media lambs most of all if they did but know it. Can anything or anyone unite our people?. Does it really have to be Islam and a world of constant idealogical conflict until there is no view but the fundamentalists - not even among secular Muslims when the time comes? Reading the consensus on here I don't think and listening to the slant of countless news programmes and commentators, I don't think so. There are those who believe in the triumph of goodness. Each morning I live in hope and each evening I shake my head in despair and think of what could be.... Bradgate Park in the sunshine and a great sea of happy faces all quite oblivious to either faith or politics. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 1 hour ago, Strokes said: Anyone justifying this, are disgusting. Absolutely appalled. Beyond belief that anyone at all thinks this is anything other than a vile bigoted hate driven crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said: Beyond belief that anyone at all thinks this is anything other than a vile bigoted hate driven crime. It's an abomination and entirely against what needs to be reflected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 6 minutes ago, Thracian said: Thrac essay No idea what you are getting at here, the police are fighting criminals who think that attacking innocent Muslims at prayer is acceptable. These criminals are not defending our way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blur Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 5 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. I think @HankMarvin has a point here, I agree that terrorism is a word that are banding about rather frequently now. It is too early to speculate of course but seeing early reports from eyewitnesses who claim the attacker was insulting Muslims then surely it is an Islamphobic attack or a attack against a religion not a terrorist attack given that it is not politically motivated? I also have some trouble accepting that ISIS attacks are a form of terrorism, if they are bombing government headquarters or attacking the public to make governments to stand down then sure it is politically motivated but they are trying to spread their ideology, converting people to accept their interpretation of Quran and to make a stand against Western ideology then it is a pursuit of religious aims is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 4 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: My arsehole has proven links to my toilet. It doesnt make me a plumber. I know what you're saying, but ... mine doesn't flush properly ... any ideas ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: No idea what you are getting at here, the police are fighting criminals who think that attacking innocent Muslims at prayer is acceptable. These criminals are not defending our way of life. Of course they're not but the crime should never have come about. Any more than Grenfell Towers. It should and could have been prevented. But the consequences of that brainless crime will be considerable. From the police first neglecting but then being obliged to defend our country against the evil of incomer fanatics, the focus will now inevitably - and rightly - include a focus on counter crime - revenge if you like. But it won't stop there. Advantage will be taken and eventually even the voices of protest and concern will be attacked. We've already seen it in recent years with the huge attack on freedom of expression and sometimes by the same people who will use this latest situation for their own benefits. Benefits we should never have exposed because in the end they serve to further weaken our means of protecting our fair and inclusive way of life in the face of the threats that fundamentalist Islam presents to even to moderate Muslims. If no-one can express concern the extremists will be that much harder to combat...and they know that. People so easily react to the crimes of extremists but not to the subtleties of their lawful progress. When you read the doctrines of the promoters of terror you'll be amazed how broad their thinking is. Even admiring from an strategic point of view. Kill a protester and the pendulum swings dramatically against you. Silence the protests in law and progress is made unhindered. As such, therefore, the mosque attack is entirely counter-productive in the fight against extremism. And actually offends against the decent views and freedoms we seek to protect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboacdc Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 already had to to put one arse in his place who shared the BBC news report this morning and put "an eye for an eye." wasnt even out of bed and i lost my shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 4 minutes ago, ramboacdc said: wasnt even out of bed and i lost my shit. Best get your sheets in the wash before the wife sees them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboacdc Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 1 minute ago, Buce said: Best get your sheets in the wash before the wife sees them.. she will understand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 4 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said: No wonder Theresa May can't get any work done. She seems to be spending all of her time chairing COBRA committee emergency meetings at the moment. WTF is going on in this fvcked up country of ours? My wife is on her was to work in London this morning, less than a mile away from Finsbury Park. I detest the fact she works in London and I avoid it like the plague. But I guess nowhere is safe these days is it... Those poor people just going to peaceful prayer last night. I wish everyone could just be more tolerant and let folk live their lives. It's all so sickening... It's all destabilising and that's what those who would fan the flames of discontent feed on. It's all affecting our feeling of freedom, safety and gradually it will affect our economy causing ever more anger and upheaval. Golf and Bradgate are the only antidotes I can find. Green fields, happy faces and the illusion that all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 17 minutes ago, Countryfox said: I know what you're saying, but ... mine doesn't flush properly ... any ideas ?? You should probably check the inside of the cistern. Often the buoy can become dislodg........WAIT A MINUTE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 It may not be wise to class this attack as a terrorist attack, whilst similar in nature to some of the horrific terrorist attacks there is no real ideology or purpose behind it. To classify it as terrorism gives it cause and purpose higher than what it deserves. He is a murderer and his actions should not been seen as part of some greater movement. We've all heard the saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" and we shouldn't allow this cowardly act of murder to be considered as anything other than that, committed by a cowardly murderer. We don't want there to be a cause that people can direct their hate behind that gains any sort of legitimacy. There is an argument that the atrocities recently committed by Islamic fundamentalists aren't acts of terror, but provocations of war (for that is their aim not any sort of political purpose) but it is convenient to label them terrorists because then we can use anti terror legislation in combatting them. Which is why we should be concerned if this is classed as a terrorist attack and the police start using terror legislation to round up friends and associates in the same why they did with the recent terror attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 Just announce Appleton FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 6 hours ago, HankMarvin said: Why is it a terrorist attack? And not a racist attack? would the person not need to have links to terrorist organisations to be considered a terrorist Because Muslims come from many different races.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munshi Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 People saying this mosque had links to ISIS or whatever, total bullshit. This mosque was actually commemorated for helping to stop people being radicalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 Just for info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 3 minutes ago, Foxin hell said: People saying this mosque had links to ISIS or whatever, total bullshit. This mosque was actually commemorated for helping to stop people being radicalized. I believe it has in the past, not that that's justification to kill innocent peaceful people https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suicide-Factory-Hamza-Finsbury-Mosque/dp/0007234694 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 18 minutes ago, MPH said: Because Muslims come from many different races.... They don't, there is only one race, the human race, which is why racism as a term is a misnomer and is inherently prejudiced in itself to suggest that people of different ethnicity are a different race, as such not part of the human race. Unfortunate really but it is the word we have and use and we use it in the context that it has taken on. Racist attacks are generally defined as that on any group that can be identified by nationality, ethnicity or religion. There are religious subsets of racism such as islamophobia or anti semitism, but racism is used as a cover all term for any sort of prejudice or bigotry based around nationality, skin colour, religion, culture, ethnicity etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munshi Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 4 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: I believe it has in the past, not that that's justification to kill innocent peaceful people https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suicide-Factory-Hamza-Finsbury-Mosque/dp/0007234694 99% of Muslims despise that cvnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 The British Prime Minister just declared that Islamophobia is extremism. Considering we're constantly being told that any sort of criticism of Islam is Islamophobia, this ludicrous statement surely just plays into the hands of the Jihadis and Islamofascists? Christ, only 4 years ago the Government withdrew funding for TellMAMA for doping their reports on Islamophobic attacks by entwining physical attacks and online comments of any sort criticising Islam - now this seems to be government policy. The worlds gone ****ing mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 9 minutes ago, Captain... said: They don't, there is only one race, the human race, which is why racism as a term is a misnomer and is inherently prejudiced in itself to suggest that people of different ethnicity are a different race, as such not part of the human race. Unfortunate really but it is the word we have and use and we use it in the context that it has taken on. Racist attacks are generally defined as that on any group that can be identified by nationality, ethnicity or religion. There are religious subsets of racism such as islamophobia or anti semitism, but racism is used as a cover all term for any sort of prejudice or bigotry based around nationality, skin colour, religion, culture, ethnicity etc. You're being pedantic and you know you are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 1 minute ago, MPH said: You're being pedantic and you know you are.... No, I'm being accurate. The point is that the fact that muslims come from different backgrounds doesn't mean it can't be a racist attack, racism covers attacks on religious groups as well as attacks on people because of nationality, skin colour and ethnicity, mainly because they are often intrinsically linked and to create a distinction implies one is different to the other. This was a cowardly, racist, islamophobic hate crime. It is clear that it was racially motivated, what is not clear is to whether this counts as a terrorist attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 Just now, Captain... said: No, I'm being accurate. The point is that the fact that muslims come from different backgrounds doesn't mean it can't be a racist attack, racism covers attacks on religious groups as well as attacks on people because of nationality, skin colour and ethnicity, mainly because they are often intrinsically linked and to create a distinction implies one is different to the other. This was a cowardly, racist, islamophobic hate crime. It is clear that it was racially motivated, what is not clear is to whether this counts as a terrorist attack. No offence but i'll take the dictionary over you.... race2 [reys] Spell Syllables noun 1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity. 2. a population so related. 3. Anthropology. (no longer in technical use) any of the traditional divisions ofhumankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, andNegro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universalphysical characteristics. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especiallyformerly, based on any or a combination of various physicalcharacteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and nowfrequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups. a socially constructed category of identification based on physicalcharacteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture: Her parents wanted her to marry within her race. a human population partially isolated reproductively from otherpopulations, whose members share a greater degree of physical andgenetic similarity with one another than with other humans. 4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic lineage: the Slavic race. 5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race. 6. the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race. 7. Zoology. a variety; subspecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickyblueeyes Posted 19 June 2017 Share Posted 19 June 2017 The attempt of some to try to justify the acts of this vicious killer is beyond reasoning. They were helping an elderly man who had fallen ill and there are comments like, "it was expected". Have a ****ing word with yourself, seriously. Innocent death, pain and injury in any circumstances, to any race, religion or whatever stem of life they should appear, is exactly that...Innocent!! I pray for the victim and those injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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