Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

It may be 'mad' for power hungry sods to give up that power but PR is a much truer version of democracy than the FPTP system we use. It's an issue that voters will need to push if there is ever to be change as it simply cannot be right that politicians can ignore the fundamentally undemocratic state of our system simply because it favours them. 

 

Anyway, on another note, the Tory's fabulous handling of the economy always makes for interesting reading:

 

Brexit economy: UK faces slowdown amid living standards squeeze

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/22/brexit-economy-uk-slowdown-living-standards-costs

 

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

a) they won't always be polling 40%.

 

b) maybe - just maybe - they are looking at is what is fair and democratic, rather than what suits the Party?

Despite what you hear from some Labour figures thet would have little desire long term to form a left-wing coalition, the Lib Dems would challenge their economics, the Greens would embarrass them with all sorts of crazy shit and no party than supports the Union can really get into bed with the SNP or Plaid who want to destroy and pull apart the country they are running.

 

If you believe it's fairer then so be it, I do as well but I still slightly prefer the system where we can kick out MPS directly - but it would be an absolute disaster for the Labour party to seriously support it at this point in time where it appears we are moving back to two party politics.

 

Germany isnt really comparable to anything either, the difference between the CDU and the SDP isn't that great, they are still blighted by past government there.

[Guest MattP]

This is great. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 hour ago, The Blur said:

 

Two years?  Did I miss something as I thought each parliament usually serve for five years term in each cycle? 

 

Thats the Parliament term which the Queens speech covers sorry - normally it's one year, but they extended it this year, no doubt to the Queen's relief. Can't imagine she enjoys reading out all the crap she's been given over the years.

 

That doesn't mean there will be an election at the end of this period however, it just means another Queen's speech would be required - but given the current situation, I wouldn't be suprised if there was an election inside 2 years.

[RoboFox]

"Hi there, is that Conservative HQ? Your delivery driver here. The Palace have asked me to deliver a sh*t load of torn up Tory manifestos, problem is, my sat-nav is playing up.

 

...What road are you on again?"

 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 hour ago, BlueBrett said:

Can't respond to anything posted more than a day ago now   

Not everyone has the time or inclination to check FT on an hourly basis yknow

 

Sorry, but it was overdue housekeeping. 

[Buce]

29 minutes ago, MattP said:

This is great. 

 

At least she wasn't mistaken for a cleaner:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/black-mp-dawn-butler-reveals-she-was-victim-of-racism-in-parliament-after-fellow-mp-assumed-she-was-a6901261.html

 

An MP has revealed she was the subject of racism in parliament when a fellow MP mistook her for a cleaner.

Appearing on BBC Five Live’s Piennar’s Politics, Dawn Butler was asked if she’d ever been faced with racism in parliament.

The Labour MP for Brent Central recollected a confrontation which occurred in a Members’ only lift inside the Palace of Westminster.

 

“Yes - God, there are so many incidents," she said. "There was a time when I was in the lift. It was a Members’ lift that Members of Parliament use specially in cases (where) we have get to places quickly.

“I was in the lift and some other MP said, ‘This lift really isn’t for cleaners’.”

The 46-year-old East London born politician chose not to disclose the name of the MP.

 

Or possibly even worse:

 

In 2008, having become the third black woman MP, Butler wrote an article about a separate incident where the former senior Tory minister David Heathcote-Amory confronted her in the Members’ section of the terrace.

“He actually said to me, ‘What are you doing here? This is for Members only’,” she wrote.

“He then proceeded to ask me, 'Are you a member?' And I said, ‘Yes I am, are you?‘ And he turned around and said to his colleague, ‘They’re letting anybody in nowadays.’

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

Well worth a view...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/owen-jones-gleefully-brands-daily-mail-an-open-sewer_uk_594b7656e4b01cdedf0058cc

 

 

Edited 22 June 2017 by DJ Barry Hammond

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Well worth a view...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/owen-jones-gleefully-brands-daily-mail-an-open-sewer_uk_594b7656e4b01cdedf0058cc

 

 

The Mail or the Sun trying to lecture anyone on ethical journalism standards is like Harold Shipman trying to lecture another doctor on ethical medical practice.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

The Guardian is an awful pile of steaming left wing shite though. It is the left wing equivalent of the Mail/Sun full of bollocks, yet because the readership normally see themselves as the high and mighty, it thinks its some kind of gospel they can use to back up their arguments.

 

Again its pretty poor to use deaths for cheap point scoring........it makes them lower that the Mail and Sun for me. Surely the clever intelligent one walks away and ignores.

 

Is it ok next time there is a attack for the Sun to have a front page with the Guardian plastered on the terrorists and put 'thanks to left wing liberal values and mass immigration we get blown up yet again'? I don't think they have ever sunk that low even for that cock head Owen Jones to call them an open sewer.....want a sanctimonious bunch of hypocritical  *****.

 

People died have some ****ing respect.

Edited 22 June 2017 by Foxin_mad

[Guest MattP]

32 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

At least she wasn't mistaken for a cleaner:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/black-mp-dawn-butler-reveals-she-was-victim-of-racism-in-parliament-after-fellow-mp-assumed-she-was-a6901261.html

 

An MP has revealed she was the subject of racism in parliament when a fellow MP mistook her for a cleaner.

Appearing on BBC Five Live’s Piennar’s Politics, Dawn Butler was asked if she’d ever been faced with racism in parliament.

The Labour MP for Brent Central recollected a confrontation which occurred in a Members’ only lift inside the Palace of Westminster.

 

“Yes - God, there are so many incidents," she said. "There was a time when I was in the lift. It was a Members’ lift that Members of Parliament use specially in cases (where) we have get to places quickly.

“I was in the lift and some other MP said, ‘This lift really isn’t for cleaners’.”

The 46-year-old East London born politician chose not to disclose the name of the MP.

 

Or possibly even worse:

 

In 2008, having become the third black woman MP, Butler wrote an article about a separate incident where the former senior Tory minister David Heathcote-Amory confronted her in the Members’ section of the terrace.

“He actually said to me, ‘What are you doing here? This is for Members only’,” she wrote.

“He then proceeded to ask me, 'Are you a member?' And I said, ‘Yes I am, are you?‘ And he turned around and said to his colleague, ‘They’re letting anybody in nowadays.’

Why is your reaction to anything that may portray someone from Labour in a bad light to always say "look over there" and always try and find something about the Tories?

 

The second point is ten years ago for crying out loud.

[Buce]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

Why is your reaction to anything that may portray someone from Labour in a bad light to always say "look over there" and always try and find something about the Tories?

 

The second point is ten years ago for crying out loud.

 

Same reason you post everything that's negative about Labour, but never about the Tories (Example: Diane Abbott's interview cock-ups - I haven't seen you comment on Boris-the-buffoon's laughable interview yesterday).

 

It's called balance, Matt.

 

You can find it here, (just in case you missed it) - starts around 26:00 mins:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjfq#play

Edited 22 June 2017 by Buce

[Carl the Llama]

That Huffpost article having a pop at Dacre for lying and basically being a hypocrite and highlighting all the mistakes in his column seems to have missed the one legitimate mistake that explains it all...  If you take the column title ("Fake news, the fascist left and the REAL purveyors of hatred") and switch out the comma for a colon then it all becomes clear.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

The Guardian is an awful pile of steaming left wing shite though. It is the left wing equivalent of the Mail/Sun full of bollocks, yet because the readership normally see themselves as the high and mighty, it thinks its some kind of gospel they can use to back up their arguments.

 

Again its pretty poor to use deaths for cheap point scoring........it makes them lower that the Mail and Sun for me. Surely the clever intelligent one walks away and ignores.........it makes them lower that the Mail and Sun for me. Surely the clever intelligent one walks away and ignores.

 

Is it ok next time there is a attack for the Sun to have a front page with the Guardian plastered on the terrorists and put 'thanks to left wing liberal values and mass immigration we get blown up yet again'? I don't think they have ever sunk that low even for that cock head Owen Jones to call them an open sewer.....want a sanctimonious bunch of hypocritical  *****.

 

People died have some ****ing respect.

4

First bit - The Mail and Sun have used incidents resulting in death for cheap point scoring multiple times in the past. Where was their respect for the dead then?

 

Second bit - Their editiorials have implied this, and their columnists flat out said it in the past, too.

 

Seriously, neither corner of the press has a leg to stand on when it comes to hypocrisy on this matter.

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

Same reason you post everything that's negative about Labour, but never about the Tories (Example: Diane Abbott's interview cock-ups - I haven't seen you comment on Boris-the-buffoon's laughable interview yesterday).

 

It's called balance, Matt.

 

You can find it here, (just in case you missed it) - starts around 26:00 mins:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjfq#play

I watched it, typical Boris eh? Buffoon, man of the people. Obviously not posting it though, not a black woman is it?

 

How much anti-Labour stuff do you post? Talk about pot and kettle.

[Guest MattP]

15 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

The Guardian is an awful pile of steaming left wing shite though. It is the left wing equivalent of the Mail/Sun full of bollocks, yet because the readership normally see themselves as the high and mighty, it thinks its some kind of gospel they can use to back up their arguments.

It's funny how they do see themselves as it though, become a parody without even knowing, can you imagine the reaction if the Mail had done a cartoon of the London Bridge attackers with a Guardian in one hand and knives in the other?

 

Some of the columnists are crackers now, check out Abi Wilkinson if you can, completely nuts. It shows anyone can make it into the Guardian.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

I watched it, typical Boris eh? Buffoon, man of the people. Obviously not posting it though, not a black woman is it?

 

How much anti-Labour stuff do you post? Talk about pot and kettle.

 

You post enough for everyone, Matt.

 

Though, I am on record as being every bit as critical of Abbott as you are, so your point isn't really accurate, is it?

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

You post enough for everyone, Matt.

Thanks mate.

[lgfualol]

Our future PM 

 

https://streamable.com/791lt

Edited 22 June 2017 by lgfualol

[lifted*fox]

I think it's time for everyone to drop the whole 'political point scoring' bleeding heart bullshit and just accept that much of what is discussed in this thread (terror attacks, various tragedies, etc.) will be politicised because hey, guess what!? It's ****ing political. 

 

Everyone in this thread (and related threads) is here to discuss politics. Views are going to be biased and people are going to use certain arguments to try and push their opinion. 

 

People crying "boo hoo, have some respect for the dead, etc." when it suits them because it doesn't go hand in hand with their own agenda / point of view... come on, it's such a weak argument.

 

Just because someone is relating a conversation to politics doesn't mean they haven't given thought / respect to the parties involved - but nobody is buying your "what a bunch of inconsiderate meanies, talking politics before bodies are in the ground!" rubbish. 

 

Knock it on the head ffs. 

 

 

Edited 22 June 2017 by daz*dsb

[lifted*fox]

6 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

Our future PM 

 

https://streamable.com/791lt

 

anyone who thinks Boris should be PM needs to take a good long hard look at themselves tbf.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

32 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

First bit - The Mail and Sun have used incidents resulting in death for cheap point scoring multiple times in the past. Where was their respect for the dead then?

 

Second bit - Their editiorials have implied this, and their columnists flat out said it in the past, too.

 

Seriously, neither corner of the press has a leg to stand on when it comes to hypocrisy on this matter.

I have to say I haven't seen examples quite so low as this but I  am always happy to be shown examples. There have plenty of sensationalist headlines in the Mail and Sun but I think most people with half a brain cell can call them for what they are.

 

I agree its wrong for either to be having a pop, they both support other ends of the spectrum neither is a fine classy example. The Guardian spreads hate for the rich and just about anyone who is not a middle class Londoner sipping Latte from Starbucks whilst Facebooking on the free Wi-Fi on their iPhone. The annoying thing about the Guardian is that it pretends to be a proper newspaper.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

36 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's funny how they do see themselves as it though, become a parody without even knowing, can you imagine the reaction if the Mail had done a cartoon of the London Bridge attackers with a Guardian in one hand and knives in the other?

 

Some of the columnists are crackers now, check out Abi Wilkinson if you can, completely nuts. It shows anyone can make it into the Guardian.

its one of the worst newspapers ever to be honest, cant stand any of it. Really full of shit.

[lgfualol]

22 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

 

anyone who thinks Boris should be PM needs to take a good long hard look at themselves tbf.

But he is so funny and has silly hair te-he  

Edited 22 June 2017 by lgfualol

[Webbo]

22 JUNE 2017

  |  CBI PRESS TEAM

NEWS

Manufacturing demand strengthens

Manufacturing firms reported that both their total and export order books had strengthened to multi-decade highs in June, according to the CBI’s latest Industrial Trends Survey.

 

The survey of 464 manufacturers found that total order books climbed to the highest level since August 1988. This was underpinned by a broad-based improvement in 13 of the 17 sub-sectors, led by the food, drink & tobacco and chemicals sectors. Export orders also improved to a 22-year high, hitting similar peaks to those seen in 2011 and 2013.

Output growth eased to the levels seen at the start of the year, on the back of slowdowns in the chemicals and mechanical engineering sectors, but remained robust historically. Firms expect a firm rise in production over the coming quarter.

But pricing pressures remain strong, with manufacturers continuing to expect a sharp rise in average selling prices, in line with the level seen last month. Stock adequacy dipped marginally, remaining below average.

Rain Newton-Smith, CBI Chief Economist, said:

“Britain’s manufacturers are continuing to see demand for “Made in Britain” goods rise with the temperature. Total and export order books are at highs not seen for decades, and output growth remains robust.

“Nevertheless, with cost pressures remaining elevated it’s no surprise to see that manufacturers continue to have high expectations for the prices they plan to charge.

“To build the right future for Britain’s economy, manufacturers and workers, the Government must put the economy first as it negotiates the country’s departure from the EU. This approach will deliver a deal that supports growth and raises living standards across the UK.”

Key findings:

• 27% of manufacturers reported total order books to be above normal, and 12% said they were below normal, giving a rounded balance of +16%. This was the highest level seen in nearly three decades, since August 1988 (+17%)
• 23% of firms said their export order books were above normal, and 10% said they were below normal, giving a balance of +13%. This was the highest balance since June 1995 (+20%)
• 30% of businesses said the volume of output over the past three months was up, and 15% said it was down, giving a balance of +15% - a decline from the balance of +28% seen in May
• Manufacturers expect output to grow at the same robust pace in the coming quarter, with 37% predicting growth, and 9% a decline, giving a rounded balance of +27%
• Average selling prices are still expected to rise in line with the level seen in May (+23%), having eased from their peak in February (+32%)
• 13% of firms said their present stocks of finished goods are more than adequate, whilst 11% said they were less adequate, giving a balance of +2%, remaining below the average (+13%).

 

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-demand-strengthens/

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said:

I have to say I haven't seen examples quite so low as this but I  am always happy to be shown examples. There have plenty of sensationalist headlines in the Mail and Sun but I think most people with half a brain cell can call them for what they are.

 

I agree its wrong for either to be having a pop, they both support other ends of the spectrum neither is a fine classy example. The Guardian spreads hate for the rich and just about anyone who is not a middle class Londoner sipping Latte from Starbucks whilst Facebooking on the free Wi-Fi on their iPhone. The annoying thing about the Guardian is that it pretends to be a proper newspaper.

 

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But such things are often surprising.