Buce Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that maybe people get their views from their experiences in life rather than what they read in tabloids? Sometimes. But very often those experiences are distorted by what they read in the tabloids, whether directly or indirectly. For example: John Smith, upon applying for social housing is told that there is a long waiting list. He then observes that the new tenants in the council house down the street are the Patel family, thus 'confirming' that what he read (or heard anecdotally) about immigrants going to the top of the housing list is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 16 minutes ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that maybe people get their views from their experiences in life rather than what they read in tabloids? No. My dad voted Brexit. We've had a few tense discussions. His first reason was to do with sea fishermen. He knows no sea fishermen. His latest is to do with Romanian gangs. I'd be surprised if he'd even met a Romanian, let alone a gang of them. He reads the Daily bloody Express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: No. My dad voted Brexit. We've had a few tense discussions. His first reason was to do with sea fishermen. He knows no sea fishermen. His latest is to do with Romanian gangs. I'd be surprised if he'd even met a Romanian, let alone a gang of them. He reads the Daily bloody Express. Similarly, my in-laws voted Leave based solely on the 'fact' that soon we would be overrun by millions of Turks. They read the Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 1 minute ago, Buce said: Similarly, my in-laws voted Leave based solely on the 'fact' that soon we would be overrun by millions of Turks. They read the Mail. Unfortunately we had 30 years of right wing hysteria and neither the centre or left even tried to make the case for the EU, believing it unnecessary. Not hard to see how we've ended up where we are. Lies turn into truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 When you consider that the left thrive on conspiracy theories, half truths and lies I don't think anyone can point fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: When you consider that the left thrive on conspiracy theories, half truths and lies I don't think anyone can point fingers. I don't think anyone is, Webbo. Politicians thrive on half truths and lies, both left and right. Edited 22 January 2018 by Buce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 Someone post some more pigeons. I've read all this bull at least 20 times. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 Just now, Innovindil said: Someone post some more pigeons. I've read all this bull at least 20 times. Maybe you should pay closer attention, then you wouldn't need to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 3 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Someone post some more pigeons. I've read all this bull at least 20 times. Here's a pigeon. There might be a bit of bull in the background, though.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 32 minutes ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that maybe people get their views from their experiences in life rather than what they read in tabloids? Obviously in some cases they do, yes. But it would be naive to downplay the influence exerted by the media. Can you give us some examples of views of yours that have been arrived at through personal experience alone? For example perhaps you could name a specific EU law or laws that have affected you in some way and lead to you having the opinion that we need to take back control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 1 hour ago, toddybad said: It is strange one and I don't tend to agree with positive discrimination but let's be honest, there's an article because the Tories are trying to score a political point rather than because white members are up in arms. I would never dare suggest the last point, on the contrary I think a lot of your members will be delighted to charge white people extra to show how supposedly "progressive" they are. The point Buce made is interesting though, why does Labour seem to want to insult it's white working class vote? (Not blaming this on Corbyn either, Thornberry was doing it under Miliband) Do the people at the top of the party (most of who seem to be middle class London based liberals) see them as horrible and not want their votes anymore? Are they playing the long game realises the ethnic vote will only get larger? It seems a very strange move for a political party who lost seats like Mansfield and Stockton just a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: Obviously in some cases they do, yes. But it would be naive to downplay the influence exerted by the media. Can you give us some examples of views of yours that have been arrived at through personal experience alone? For example perhaps you could name a specific EU law or laws that have affected you in some way and lead to you having the opinion that we need to take back control? From 2010 to before the referendum everytime a tory MP went on the TV they'd be asked when they were going to cut immigration and when they said they'd try the reporter would reply we couldn't because the EU wouldn't let us. We were supposed to sack the tories for lying but we ended up sacking the EU instead. People have the right to expect the govt they elect to carry out the policies they voted for should be able to carry out those policies without having to ask foreign govts for permission. It's all about taking back control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: From 2010 to before the referendum everytime a tory MP went on the TV they'd be asked when they were going to cut immigration and when they said they'd try the reporter would reply we couldn't because the EU wouldn't let us. We were supposed to sack the tories for lying but we ended up sacking the EU instead. People have the right to expect the govt they elect to carry out the policies they voted for should be able to carry out those policies without having to ask foreign govts for permission. It's all about taking back control. Is that a no then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: Is that a no then? No what? You're always banging on about falling wages, that's occurred while we're part of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 since I have declared this a pigeon thread the quality of content has gone up by 82%. with more regular pigeon posting and less politics this thread could potentially hit a 99.9% satisfaction rating. SO JUST THINK - the next time you're going to waste your breathe on some political rant / argument... just think - 'would people prefer a picture of a pigeon?' I can tell you now, the answer is always going to be yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: No what? You're always banging on about falling wages, that's occurred while we're part of the EU. I was expecting some sort of personal experience that has lead to you forming a view on something. You came back with immigration stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: I was expecting some sort of personal experience that has lead to you forming a view on something. You came back with immigration stats. I've never been murdered but I'm against the death penalty. It's quite possible to have views on things without having personal experience of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 26 minutes ago, Buce said: Maybe you should pay closer attention, then you wouldn't need to... Or maybe people could stop rehashing the same bollocks over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 3 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Or maybe people could stop rehashing the same bollocks over and over again. You're not forced to read it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, MattP said: I would never dare suggest the last point, on the contrary I think a lot of your members will be delighted to charge white people extra to show how supposedly "progressive" they are. The point Buce made is interesting though, why does Labour seem to want to insult it's white working class vote? (Not blaming this on Corbyn either, Thornberry was doing it under Miliband) Do the people at the top of the party (most of who seem to be middle class London based liberals) see them as horrible and not want their votes anymore? Are they playing the long game realises the ethnic vote will only get larger? It seems a very strange move for a political party who lost seats like Mansfield and Stockton just a few months ago. Yeah I don't necessarily disagree. I think the left forgot all about it's traditional supporters some time ago. It's interesting that white working class men are only now being remembered about in the left wing media with questions being raised about how to stop them being disenfranchised. Edited 22 January 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 (edited) I’m not overly convinced that its been possible to assign left and right to either political party (Labour and Conservative) for many, many years. In fact, i’m becoming more in tune with the idea that absolutely everything we’re told about politics is actually bullshit. Whichever party is in power make decisions reacting solely on what’s happening in the here and now. No learning from the past, no planning for the future. Just whatever they need to do at any given time and this is the reason politicians are so comfortable with lying so much. Edited 22 January 2018 by Realist Guy In The Room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 1 hour ago, Webbo said: Does anyone think that maybe people get their views from their experiences in life rather than what they read in tabloids? 11 minutes ago, Webbo said: I've never been murdered but I'm against the death penalty. It's quite possible to have views on things without having personal experience of them. Was just looking for an example of where you'd got a view from your experiences in life as per your previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: . Just now, Rogstanley said: Was just looking for an example of where you'd got a view from your experiences in life as per your previous post. Actually you asked specifically about the EU. 40 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Obviously in some cases they do, yes. But it would be naive to downplay the influence exerted by the media. Can you give us some examples of views of yours that have been arrived at through personal experience alone? For example perhaps you could name a specific EU law or laws that have affected you in some way and lead to you having the opinion that we need to take back control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 38 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Or maybe people could stop rehashing the same bollocks over and over again. 34 minutes ago, Webbo said: You're not forced to read it. Also, everything being discussed is relevant to the story Matt broke regarding white working class voters being discriminated against. As you would know if you'd been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 22 January 2018 Share Posted 22 January 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Webbo said: Actually you asked specifically about the EU. I said "for example". It wasn't meant as a trick question. You seemed to be saying that your opinions come from personal experience rather than tabloids so I asked for an example. I thought it would be easy to be honest, but obviously not, which just goes to show. Edited 22 January 2018 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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