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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

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2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I don't think it is. Milliband got picked on for how he ate sandwich, his voice, many other things. Cameron for his looks. Corbyn for how he dresses. Bloody hell, I could even bring Boris and Gove into a discussion on people getting pull apart for their appearance. On here I think there's been a little ribbing of May for her looks, certainly on how she greeted Royalty, but it's mostly about her ability to do her job, and her lack of empathy, and you feel the need to constantly defend, you've never defended anyone critising abbot for not doing her job well, and yes she does relatively get as much abuse. I don't know how you can claim you're only defending her against personal abuse. You stuck up for her after the Chequers meeting last week when someone questioned the outcome because she'd done so well getting them all to agree (bless her), and within two days she'd lost two high profile cabinet ministers.

Ok you’ve said your piece and I’ve said mine.

 

Sorry my ‘constant’ defence of her winds you up so much :rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 :o ...    that’s bloody Vaz with a wig on !!

Come on then @Izzy Muzzett stick up for her, that's not picking on her for her adding up. 

 

Btw Izzy, it doesn't bother me as such, you're obviously a top bloke, you just seem to have a lopsided amount of compassion for this one person, and nothing for people being treated equally as badly. So much so you don't seem able to see any of her faults.

 

I posted this at the same time as your post above :thumbup:

Edited by Facecloth
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1 hour ago, murphy said:

Seems to contradict everything you said last night.  It was only the uneducated that voted tory that were stupid, racist etc. wasn't it?

 

 

I just couldn't be bothered to argue, Murph, and it sure took the wind out of his sails.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised you've come back for more - you must be a glutton for punishment.

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25 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I think this is the third or possibly fourth time you’ve picked me up on this now. Not sure why it bothers you so much.

 

No fvcker else defends May on here - not even the ‘proper’ Tories so maybe I just feel a bit sorry for her. I’ve always maintained that despite her faults, I genuinely believe she’s trying to do the best she can in almost impossible circumstances.

 

And don’t pretend Abbott gets anywhere near the same abuse on here as May does - not even close. Abbott got stick because she can’t add up where May gets abuse about how she looks and behaves - it’s completely different.

 

I’m not suggesting people lay off May for one minute for her politics, policy and decision making. What I do have a problem with is people abusing her as a human being with their vile comments about her.

 

I may well be guilty of poking fun at Corbyn or Abbott in the past but I don’t think I’ve ever resorted to calling them evil, witches, cvnts, bitches, slags, vermin or any other vile name.

 

So yes I do think her treatment is different to other politicians and that’s probably why I go out my way to try and even things up a bit.

 

And it's nothing to do with you having the hots for her, you weirdo? lol

Edited by Buce
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1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Come on then @Izzy Muzzett stick up for her, that's not picking on her for her adding up. 

 

Btw Izzy, it doesn't bother me as such, you're obviously a top bloke, you just seem to have a lopsided amount of compassion for this one person, and nothing for people being treated equally as badly. So much so you don't seem able to any of her faults.

I do see her faults, of course I do. But as Alf said, she was handed a poisonined chalice with the job and she’s getting shit from all angles.

 

I didn’t realise my compassion for her came across as ‘lopsided’ so thanks for pointing that out to me again.

 

Maybe (for whatever reason) I don’t see her treatment as fair and that’s why I feel the need to speak out. I probably see her as being a bit bullied and victimised and I don’t like seeing people being bullied I guess.

 

But it comes with the territory I suppose. I’d just like to see her make a success of the job. Not just for her sake, but for the sake of the country.

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4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And it's nothing to do with you having the hots for, you weirdo? lol

You know maybe subconsciously that’s what it is.

 

I’ve always had a thing for women in power :D

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6 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I do see her faults, of course I do. But as Alf said, she was handed a poisonined chalice with the job and she’s getting shit from all angles.

 

I didn’t realise my compassion for her came across as ‘lopsided’ so thanks for pointing that out to me again.

 

Maybe (for whatever reason) I don’t see her treatment as fair and that’s why I feel the need to speak out. I probably see her as being a bit bullied and victimised and I don’t like seeing people being bullied I guess.

 

But it comes with the territory I suppose. I’d just like to see her make a success of the job. Not just for her sake, but for the sake of the country.

Nobody forced her to take the job Izzy. She wanted it. IMO, any politician vain (and stupid) enough to want to be PM is fair game for a bit of ridicule, even if it gets a little personal.

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1 minute ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Nobody forced her to take the job Izzy. She wanted it. IMO, any politician vain (and stupid) enough to want to be PM is fair game for a bit of ridicule, even if it gets a little personal.

Yeah, actually you’re all right.

 

Fvck her.

 

Witch.

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12 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I do see her faults, of course I do. But as Alf said, she was handed a poisonined chalice with the job and she’s getting shit from all angles.

 

I didn’t realise my compassion for her came across as ‘lopsided’ so thanks for pointing that out to me again.

 

Maybe (for whatever reason) I don’t see her treatment as fair and that’s why I feel the need to speak out. I probably see her as being a bit bullied and victimised and I don’t like seeing people being bullied I guess.

 

But it comes with the territory I suppose. I’d just like to see her make a success of the job. Not just for her sake, but for the sake of the country.

I'm not gonna get into an argument with you Izzy. Some people I don't mind falling out with on here because genuinely come across as arseholes but you don't.

 

I would pull you and Alf up on one thing though. She wasn't handed anything, she chose to take it. She actively seeked support to be put in that position. She wasn't reluctantly pushed into, she asked for it. If she's not up to it, admit it, and step aside. 

Edited by Facecloth
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38 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 Tbf flannel,  May gets abuse all the time whatever she does,  Abbot gets it when she talks absolute twaddle ....

Same thing.

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6 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

May is an awful PM. Really, really bad. No charisma, no competence and no ideology. Also she is an appeaser and has betrayed Britain.

Who was the last PM we had that did have charisma?

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1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

I just couldn't be bothered to argue, Murph, and it sure took the wind out of his sails.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised you've come back for more - you must be a glutton for punishment.

True.  I merely argue that the EU is undemocratic and there is an avalanche.  You can write off whole sections of society as stupid and racist....and nothing.  

 

You lot sure make a strange little clique.

 

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32 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Who was the last PM we had that did have charisma?

Tbf cameron had some to start with. It's just his chancellor's economic policy led to wider policies that were close to evil. 

 

Before that Blair was known for it. Like him or loathe him you can't accuse him of not being charismatic. 

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1 hour ago, murphy said:

True.  I merely argue that the EU is undemocratic and there is an avalanche.  You can write off whole sections of society as stupid and racist....and nothing.  

 

You lot sure make a strange little clique.

 

1

 

lol

 

That's because we've been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

 

You'll soon learn that there's nothing new ever said in this thread - it simply goes round and round, with nobody changing their beliefs, but every so often a newbie comes along to spice things up with their outrage. Don't take it personally.

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Labour opens up biggest lead over Tories since general election

Opinium poll puts Jeremy Corbyn’s party four points ahead as Ukip revives

 

Labour has opened up its biggest poll lead over the Conservatives since shortly after last June’s general election, as the government’s chaotic handling of Brexit appears to have triggered a dramatic fall in support for Theresa May and the Tories – and a sudden revival of Ukip.

The latest Opinium poll for the Observer puts Labour on 40%, the same score as last month, but four points ahead of the Tories who have dropped by six points since early June to 36%. The fall in Tory support would appear to be the result of Conservative supporters who backed leaving the EU turning to Ukip, whose support has shot up by five points from 3% last month to 8%.

May’s leadership ratings have also nosedived, while those of Jeremy Corbyn have remained stable. May’s net approval rating – when the number of people who disapprove of the way she is leading the country is subtracted from the number who approve – has tumbled from -8% in June to -24% over a turbulent political period of just five weeks.

 

She is now well behind Corbyn who is on -12%, little changed from -13% last month.

Overall the poll findings suggest that the turmoil in government caused by Brexit, which led last week to the resignations of foreign secretary Boris Johnson and Brexit secretary David Davis, is having a more significant effect on how the public view the different political parties and their willingness to support them, than has been the case so far. About 51% of people now think Brexit is one of the most important issues facing the country – the highest percentage recorded so far by Opinium – and up markedly from 42% last month.

May now has the lowest approval rating specifically on her handling of Brexit since Opinium starting polling on the issue. Just 25% currently approve of the way she is handling Brexit, down from 30% last month, while 56% disapprove, up from 45% last month.

 

Public opinion is completely split on Brexit, mirroring divisions within the main political parties. Asked whether they approved of the deal hammered out at Chequers between cabinet ministers last weekend, 32% of respondents said they backed it while 32% opposed it.

The public’s view of Corbyn on Brexit has not shifted much since June, with 22% approving of his handling of the process of leaving the EU, up from 21% last month. In terms of net approval on Brexit, May now also fares worse than Corbyn with a net approval of -31% compared with a net approval of -23% for the Labour leader.

Half of voters think the electorate should be given another referendum on any final deal that is bought back from Brussels by May, against 33% who do not.

People are split, however, on whether the choice on the ballot paper should be between accepting the deal on offer and leaving without any deal at all or between accepting the deal on offer and staying in the EU, both supported by 25% of those asked.

While Labour’s poll lead will encourage some in the party to push for an early general election, others in the party will be worried that its support has not increased at a time when the Tories are in open revolt and lack any unity over Brexit. Neither have the pro-EU Liberal Democrats benefited from Tory woes. They are up only one point to 8% since June.

The figures suggest large numbers of leave voters have become disillusioned with the Tories’ apparent drift to a more soft-Brexit position, and are looking to Ukip as a way to deliver a clean break with Brussels. Among potential Tory replacements for May, were she to step down or be forced out, people seem to have no clear preference but Johnson is favoured by more people than any other.

Asked who they think would be the best prime minister among the likely Tory runners and riders, Johnson comes out top with 12%, followed by Jacob Rees-Mogg (10%), David Davis (7%), Philip Hammond (5%), Jeremy Hunt (4%), Michael Gove (3%), and Andrea Leadsom (2%). About 25% said “none of these” and 22% said they did not know.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/labour-opens-up-biggest-lead-over-tories-since-general-election

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7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Labour opens up biggest lead over Tories since general election

Opinium poll puts Jeremy Corbyn’s party four points ahead as Ukip revives

 

Labour has opened up its biggest poll lead over the Conservatives since shortly after last June’s general election, as the government’s chaotic handling of Brexit appears to have triggered a dramatic fall in support for Theresa May and the Tories – and a sudden revival of Ukip.

The latest Opinium poll for the Observer puts Labour on 40%, the same score as last month, but four points ahead of the Tories who have dropped by six points since early June to 36%. The fall in Tory support would appear to be the result of Conservative supporters who backed leaving the EU turning to Ukip, whose support has shot up by five points from 3% last month to 8%.

May’s leadership ratings have also nosedived, while those of Jeremy Corbyn have remained stable. May’s net approval rating – when the number of people who disapprove of the way she is leading the country is subtracted from the number who approve – has tumbled from -8% in June to -24% over a turbulent political period of just five weeks.

 

She is now well behind Corbyn who is on -12%, little changed from -13% last month.

Overall the poll findings suggest that the turmoil in government caused by Brexit, which led last week to the resignations of foreign secretary Boris Johnson and Brexit secretary David Davis, is having a more significant effect on how the public view the different political parties and their willingness to support them, than has been the case so far. About 51% of people now think Brexit is one of the most important issues facing the country – the highest percentage recorded so far by Opinium – and up markedly from 42% last month.

May now has the lowest approval rating specifically on her handling of Brexit since Opinium starting polling on the issue. Just 25% currently approve of the way she is handling Brexit, down from 30% last month, while 56% disapprove, up from 45% last month.

 

Public opinion is completely split on Brexit, mirroring divisions within the main political parties. Asked whether they approved of the deal hammered out at Chequers between cabinet ministers last weekend, 32% of respondents said they backed it while 32% opposed it.

The public’s view of Corbyn on Brexit has not shifted much since June, with 22% approving of his handling of the process of leaving the EU, up from 21% last month. In terms of net approval on Brexit, May now also fares worse than Corbyn with a net approval of -31% compared with a net approval of -23% for the Labour leader.

Half of voters think the electorate should be given another referendum on any final deal that is bought back from Brussels by May, against 33% who do not.

People are split, however, on whether the choice on the ballot paper should be between accepting the deal on offer and leaving without any deal at all or between accepting the deal on offer and staying in the EU, both supported by 25% of those asked.

While Labour’s poll lead will encourage some in the party to push for an early general election, others in the party will be worried that its support has not increased at a time when the Tories are in open revolt and lack any unity over Brexit. Neither have the pro-EU Liberal Democrats benefited from Tory woes. They are up only one point to 8% since June.

The figures suggest large numbers of leave voters have become disillusioned with the Tories’ apparent drift to a more soft-Brexit position, and are looking to Ukip as a way to deliver a clean break with Brussels. Among potential Tory replacements for May, were she to step down or be forced out, people seem to have no clear preference but Johnson is favoured by more people than any other.

Asked who they think would be the best prime minister among the likely Tory runners and riders, Johnson comes out top with 12%, followed by Jacob Rees-Mogg (10%), David Davis (7%), Philip Hammond (5%), Jeremy Hunt (4%), Michael Gove (3%), and Andrea Leadsom (2%). About 25% said “none of these” and 22% said they did not know.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/labour-opens-up-biggest-lead-over-tories-since-general-election

Polls like this have to be taken seriously. I've always thought that.

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53 minutes ago, Buce said:

Labour opens up biggest lead over Tories since general election

They'd shit themselves if they were in power they are as split on brexit as much  as the Tories  no one party can provide an acceptable solution.

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