Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 22 minutes ago, MattP said: Who didn't turn up from Labour? A few Brexiteers stayed away as well it has to be said and there were some who abstained. Comical the Lib Dems just went home though because they thought it was over, everyone with even the slightest interest in politics knew that vote was going to be fairly close as 14 Tory rebels said they would be doing so. I don't know the names but apparently 14 labour mps were missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 https://news.sky.com/story/european-union-signs-its-biggest-ever-trade-deal-after-striking-agreement-with-japan-11439525 "The European Union's largest ever trade deal has been signed with Japan. The landmark agreement, which took five years to negotiate, covers 600 million people, a third of the world's GDP and will increase trade and investment in the two markets as well as reducing prices for consumers. At the moment, EU companies pay €1bn (£890m) of duty on products they export to Japan. Almost all of these tariffs will now be removed and 95% of tariffs the other way will also be wiped out. These companies - including UK firms until Brexit - export nearly €60bn (£53bn) of goods and €28bn (£25m) of services to Japan. According to the European Commission, the new deal has the potential to increase these exports by a quarter. For consumers in the EU and Japan, the deal means products from each other's markets will be cheaper, with duties to be scrapped on items as diverse as cheese, wine and cars". Let's hope Liam Fox has a UK-Japan trade deal almost ready to go, otherwise we'll be at a competitive disadvantage with the EU when trading with Japan ...... Liam? 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 13 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: https://news.sky.com/story/european-union-signs-its-biggest-ever-trade-deal-after-striking-agreement-with-japan-11439525 "The European Union's largest ever trade deal has been signed with Japan. The landmark agreement, which took five years to negotiate, covers 600 million people, a third of the world's GDP and will increase trade and investment in the two markets as well as reducing prices for consumers. At the moment, EU companies pay €1bn (£890m) of duty on products they export to Japan. Almost all of these tariffs will now be removed and 95% of tariffs the other way will also be wiped out. These companies - including UK firms until Brexit - export nearly €60bn (£53bn) of goods and €28bn (£25m) of services to Japan. According to the European Commission, the new deal has the potential to increase these exports by a quarter. For consumers in the EU and Japan, the deal means products from each other's markets will be cheaper, with duties to be scrapped on items as diverse as cheese, wine and cars". Let's hope Liam Fox has a UK-Japan trade deal almost ready to go, otherwise we'll be at a competitive disadvantage with the EU when trading with Japan ...... Liam? Any percentage on how much "almost all" is? Seems a bit odd to have a percentage for one side and not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 11 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Any percentage on how much "almost all" is? Seems a bit odd to have a percentage for one side and not the other. You made me curious about that. Here's the best info that I could find at short notice: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/17/japan-eu-sign-trade-deal-to-eliminate-nearly-all-tariffs.html "The measures won’t kick in right away and still require legislative approval. But they will bring Japanese consumers lower prices for European wines, pork, handbags and pharmaceuticals. Japanese machinery parts, tea and fish will become cheaper in Europe. The deal eliminates about 99 percent of the tariffs on Japanese goods sold to the EU. About 94 percent of the tariffs on European exports to Japan will be lifted, rising to 99 percent in the future. The difference reflects exceptions on such products as rice, which enjoys strong political protection from imports in Japan". Apart from rice, which they mention, Japan generally has historically been quite resistant to too many imports - so that might also explain the slight disparity. Sounds a good deal on the face of it, and much of it being implemented from 2019 though some measures will take a few years to be phased in - to protect against sudden competitive shocks in certain sectors, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 people will try and spin it in a bad light probably but that's another important trade route now invested in the EU. we should be benefiting from that but here we are flapping our arms about going backwards instead. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: people will try and spin it in a bad light probably but that's another important trade route now invested in the EU. we should be benefiting from that but here we are flapping our arms about going backwards instead. Idiocy. Edited 17 July 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: people will try and spin it in a bad light probably but that's another important trade route now invested in the EU. we should be benefiting from that but here we are flapping our arms about going backwards instead. Any coherent argument for Brexit unravelled a long time ago - empty rhetoric about sovereignty is all they have left. Oh, yeah, and the 'will of the people' - mustn't forget the 'will of the people'. Democracy innit. Edited 17 July 2018 by Buce 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 1 hour ago, Buce said: Would you care to substantiate this? Assuming that we accept your premise, why would that attract left-leaning professionals into teaching? Not really as it was just my opinion based on something a while back. Happily withdraw it as I certainly don't have any fact to back it up. 1 hour ago, toddybad said: I don't know the names but apparently 14 labour mps were missing One if those was Caroline Flint though, solid Brexiteer - only 3 Labour voted with the government, it's usually 7 or 8 so don't assume they all backed your side of the argument. They might have decided to abstain from the internal Tory mess. 15 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: people will try and spin it in a bad light probably but that's another important trade route now invested in the EU. we should be benefiting from that but here we are flapping our arms about going backwards instead. I wouldn't worry about it. We'll be aligned on trade anyway. If we aren't I just don't see it clearing parliament. It's all about how much rule taking we'll end up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 Meanwhile, just to make sure all the headlines aren't bad for the Tories tomorrow, Labour commits to continuing to allow anti-semitism that it defines as not being when it suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 This is from the Daily Express’s David Maddox. Hearing the 3rd reading vote could be pulled and the government could push a confidence vote...looks like they could lose on the customs union amendment #TradeBill — David Maddox (@DavidPBMaddox) July 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: This is from the Daily Express’s David Maddox. Hearing the 3rd reading vote could be pulled and the government could push a confidence vote...looks like they could lose on the customs union amendment #TradeBill — David Maddox (@DavidPBMaddox) July 17, 2018 Told you a few weeks ago you had the numbers for this. No Corbyn to get us out of it this time either unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 31 minutes ago, MattP said: Meanwhile, just to make sure all the headlines aren't bad for the Tories tomorrow, Labour commits to continuing to allow anti-semitism that it defines as not being when it suits. To be clear, what it had removed was the idea that if somebody felt a comment was anti-Semitic, even if it wasn't intended as such, it would be classed as anti semitic in a disciplinary. Essentially the discussion people here yesterday had about the fact that racist crimes were being recorded that didn't appear to meet previous thresholds is the same thing. The reason they hadn't explicitly written this was that it supposedly sits elsewhere in the rules. I'm not sure why they felt it was a good idea but at least they've taken things forward significantly and the party probably now had the most robust policy in British politics. But yesterday you didn't appear to think that incidents shouldnt be recorded as racist crimes if they are just things like theft of a bike from somebody of different ethnicity. So which is it? Of course, I'm sure you are equally concerned about the other parties. Like the fact three Tories refuse to do anything to deal with the racism and islamophibia within the party https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-islamophobia-tory-party-racism-baroness-warsi-a8394271.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 I think the international definition of anti-semitism should be applied Todd. I don't think that's comparable to bike theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 8 minutes ago, MattP said: Told you a few weeks ago you had the numbers for this. No Corbyn to get us out of it this time either unfortunately. It's ironic that by making amendments yesterday the ERG has pushed remainers into making an amendment that essentially ends hard Brexit. JRM embarrassed by Soubry. 1 minute ago, MattP said: I think the international definition of anti-semitism should be applied Todd. I don't think that's comparable to bike theft. I wouldn't argue but that's the opposite of what you were saying in relation to stats for race crimes after the Brexit vote. Those stats were based on the idea that if somebody believes an action is racist then it is, whatever the intention. This is exactly the same as the issue at the heart of the anti semitism definition. So you now presumably also accept that race crime has indeed gone up since the Brexit vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: It's ironic that by making amendments yesterday the ERG has pushed remainers into making an amendment that essentially ends hard Brexit. JRM embarrassed by Soubry. I wouldn't argue but that's the opposite of what you were saying in relation to stats for race crimes after the Brexit vote. Those stats were based on the idea that if somebody believes an action is racist then it is, whatever the intention. This is exactly the same as the issue at the heart of the anti semitism definition. So you now presumably also accept that race crime has indeed gone up since the Brexit vote? What? Have you won the vote? I've missed that can you show me? Secondly, you are seriously comparing an internationally recognised definition from holocaust experts to that? Sorry. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 (edited) If it passes, it absolutely kills the agreement dead. May will have to drop it because she would be crossing her own red line. May being absolutely bullied by both sides. Almost a sad sight. Edited 17 July 2018 by Beechey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechey Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 307-301. Government defeats amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MattP said: What? Have you won the vote? I've missed that can you show me? Secondly, you are seriously comparing an internationally recognised definition from holocaust experts to that? Sorry. Nonsense. Tories won the custom union vote. That changes things. On your second point sorry but you're embarrassing yourself. One is the international definition for one thing and the other is three accepted definition of the other. Both definitions are identical. Yet you accept one but not the other. I accept both. Tbf having done some more reading there's other examples that labour haven't used also and which they need to put in place. The mind boggles as to why they wouldn't have put them in to start with. Edited 17 July 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 No-deal Brexit would have big economic consequences – Carney Bank of England governor warns of interest rate cuts if UK crashes out of EU Mark Carney has warned that Britain would face “big economic consequences” and could need emergency interest rate cuts if the country crashes out the European Union without a deal. Issuing the latest warning for Theresa May amid mounting division over her Brexit plans as Britain’s withdrawal ticks ever closer, the governor of the Bank of England said failure to reach any deal with Brussels would leave the country worse off. “In a no-deal scenario there would be big economic consequences,” he said. The intervention comes after the prime minister narrowly avoided a Commons rebellion from Conservative remainers unhappy over concessions she had made to hardline Brexit supporters, after accepting their amendments to a customs bill late on Monday. Carney has previously said every household in the UK lost £900 on average due to the Brexit vote. Answering questions from the Treasury select committee, which had relocated to Farnborough Air Show to underline the importance of the aerospace industry to the UK economy, Carney said Britain crashing out without a deal would force the Bank to consider the future path for interest rates. He has previously said he would be prepared to cut borrowing costs to support jobs and the economy in the event of a no-deal Brexit. The Bank’s governor said: “It would be a material event for interest rates if Britain leaves the European Union next year without a deal to smooth its departure. Our job is to make sure we are as prepared as possible.” While arguing that banks in the City of London are able to withstand a disorderly Brexit, he warned Britain leaving the EU without a deal would trigger the fragmentation of the European financial system, which could drive up costs for consumers. The UK might be left with “a lot of idle bankers” following a hard Brexit as much of the demand for their services comes from the EU, he said. His comments come after the Bank warned that contracts worth trillions of pounds between UK and EU banks may collapse following Brexit. Carney’s latest intervention came after the Office for Budget Responsibility, the government tax and spending watchdog poured cold water on May’s claim that some of the increase in funding for the NHS would come from a “Brexit dividend”. Releasing its latest fiscal sustainability report, the OBR said: “Our provisional analysis suggests Brexit is more likely to weaken than strengthen the public finances overall.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 7 minutes ago, Beechey said: 307-301. Government defeats amendment. Wonder whether they managed to deal with half the remainers? They were certainly trying to put something together but it looked like they wouldn't go for it. Big win for government tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 Apparently the tory whip told them there would be a vote of no confidence on Wednesday if the amendment won and half the remainers bottled it. Party before country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: Party before country. Standard for all parties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 We're in the disaster zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 man I gotta finish decorating and get this house on the market fast. UK is gonna go full meltdown any day now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 17 July 2018 Share Posted 17 July 2018 17 minutes ago, Beechey said: 307-301. Government defeats amendment. Another win for May? Considering she’s shit, she seems to keep winning these votes doesn’t she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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