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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

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4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I guarantee they will be more miffed if we don't leave.

I think we're going round in circles here.

 

Yes, of course, they likely will be, however, it's likely that at least a good proportion of Leavers will still be annoyed regardless of the type of Leave chosen. Not as annoyed as if the UK chose to remain, but annoyed enough to kick up a mighty fuss about it - look at, for instance, the clashes between Brexiteers in Parliament this week?

 

HF above highlights one such single issue - freedom of movement - which I pretty much guarantee will piss off a good proportion of leavers no matter what position is achieved on it.

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26 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You voted remain and you're telling me what leavers want?

No, I'm just not presuming - like you are - to know they'll be happier to be out than in no matter what circumstances they find themselves under.

 

I know friends, family, in-laws, acquaintances who all voted Leave. Put them all in a room together and they'd struggle to come up with a common consensus on what they believed would be achieved as a result of a Leave vote, and what they'll be happy with as a result of a Leave vote.

 

Ask a fair few of them if they would have voted Remain if they believed they'd achieve the same results that prompted them to vote Leave, and they'd have said yes. Ask the same people if they'll be happier with a Leave result than a Remain one as long as it means just what you said will be achieved, they'd say no.

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I’m sure it’s mentioned before in this thread that Mr Cameron spelt it out in no uncertain terms what a leave vote would mean.He even gave every household a leaflet to read on the subject.

 

The biggest issue in the last cant remember general elections has been imagration.Rightly or wrongly that would have been in nearly every leave voters thought process when voting leave.

 

Keep freedom of movement and watch the country swing to the right.

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32 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

I’m sure it’s mentioned before in this thread that Mr Cameron spelt it out in no uncertain terms what a leave vote would mean.He even gave every household a leaflet to read on the subject.

 

The biggest issue in the last cant remember general elections has been imagration.Rightly or wrongly that would have been in nearly every leave voters thought process when voting leave.

 

Keep freedom of movement and watch the country swing to the right.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Tony Blairs Labour government who was initially responsible for the increase in immigration?

 

Didn't that policy spark the uprising of UKIP, which in turn persuaded Cameron to call the referendum?

 

I might well be taking shite but I'm sure that's what I read somewhere...

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19 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Tony Blairs Labour government who was initially responsible for the increase in immigration?

 

Didn't that policy spark the uprising of UKIP, which in turn persuaded Cameron to call the referendum?

 

I might well be taking shite but I'm sure that's what I read somewhere...

Mate you're talking about immigration but he's talking about imagration. Two totally different issues. 

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2 hours ago, Beechey said:

With EEA you'd need to accept free movement, be a member of the Single Market as well as continue contributing to the EU budget. What kind of promises does that really fulfil? The only thing it removes is the Customs Union membership, which is the main sticking point because of the border with the Republic of Ireland.

 

No "off the shelf" options are suitable.

 

For the record however, I agree. The idea it must happen immediately is silly.

 

 

I'm not advocating EEA for perpetuity but as a stop gap that does in fact mean we leave the EU rather than, at the current rate, ending up in endless transition. Whether that means negotiating a different agreement or in fact, alongside the other EFTA members renegotiate it. I don't pretend it's ideal but it is the best option at the moment and the best way to portect interests.

 

Fair enough maybe it doesn't quite fulfil the promises entirely, particularly FoM. But still:

 

FoM is admittedly difficult. Under the EEA agreement we could unilaterally limit FoM under 'safeguard measures'. Liechtenstein have a quota agreed. Not for one minute do I think we could agree that as the EU wouldn't allow a big country to get away with it. Could we make 'safeguard measures' fly for a bit, probably. But yes it is an issue but it's going to be an issue anyway. This Labour Mobility Framework is going to end up being essentially the same agreement would be my guess.

 

I do agree that we need to leave SM to honour the vote. As part of the EEA you get access to the EUIM (Single Market). There seems to have been a conflation that EEA=Single Market=EU Internal Market. This isn't the case and the EEA gives access to EUIM but does not make you part of it. Hence you don't have to take part in CFP, CAP or ECJ supremacy.

 

We're going to paying in if we want to remain part of any agencies which is the current plan which is what Norway pays for at the moment. All other contributions Norway makes are either via EEA grants or via EFTA so not directly contributing to the EU budget as it doesn't just pay for access to EU markets but for other EFTA/EEA activities. I appreciate the public won't necessarily see it that way, but contributions would be down at least. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

I'm not advocating EEA for perpetuity but as a stop gap that does in fact mean we leave the EU rather than, at the current rate, ending up in endless transition. Whether that means negotiating a different agreement or in fact, alongside the other EFTA members renegotiate it. I don't pretend it's ideal but it is the best option at the moment and the best way to portect interests.

 

 

 

But that's what it would become.

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8 hours ago, Buce said:

Not a chance.  Even your own sources give examples of why Finland can be considered Scandinavian.  At the risk of upsetting the board's significant Finno-nationalist contingent I'm standing firm.

 

Upon VAR review the goal stands.

karte-1-1081-en.gif

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7 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Not a chance.  Even your own sources give examples of why Finland can be considered Scandinavian.  At the risk of upsetting the board's significant Finno-nationalist contingent I'm standing firm.

 

Upon VAR review the goal stands.

karte-1-1081-en.gif

 

Taken from the website of the Finnish Embassy, London:

 

" Is Finland part of Scandinavia or is it a Nordic country?
Finland is part of the Nordic countries together with Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Denmark. Scandinavia comprises Sweden and Norway only.
"

 

http://www.finemb.org.uk/public/default.aspx?nodeid=44488&contentlan=2&culture=en-GB

 

Carl gets a ten-match suspension for attempted match-fixing.

 

Give me back my rep point!

 

 


Edited by Buce

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