AKCJ Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 Worries me the amount of politicians hat say ‘The British public just want us to get on with it and get it done’. No, we want you to get it right. If it takes 10 years to do it properly then that’s what it takes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 4 hours ago, rachhere said: It's all down to N. Ireland though isn't it, at the end of the day. That's what they say, can't see what the problem of having an open border in Ireland actually is, unless they're worried about some Somalians washing up on a beach in Dublin and making their way to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 She's absolutely desperate to make her mark in the history books even if that mark is her bending over and taking a bit fat stinking shit on the UK. Stupid woman. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 The public were not properly informed about the realities of Brexit at the time of the referendum. The Remain campaign was pathetically weak. However should we now decide by a further vote to stay in I fear we will be viewed as a third rate whipping boy by the other member states. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 Oh dear, what a mess .... who voted these people into the positions they are in ? ...... and who voted that we should leave Europe ? .... blimey !! ... it was us !!! Fookin idiots the lot of us ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 Brexit negotiations was always going to be a poisoned chalice. In the first place the majority leave vote was quite a narrow majority (and if you take the whole electorate, including those who didn't vote, a considerable minority). Then that slight majority (52%) is split into varying degrees of hard/soft brexit and deals no deal. So whoever is actually happy with the final version of brexit was always going to be a minority, leaving lots of people upset. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 (edited) . Edited 15 November 2018 by Mike Oxlong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 1 minute ago, Mike Oxlong said: . Well said Mick .... I’d vote for you any day ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 15 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: She's absolutely desperate to make her mark in the history books even if that mark is her now bending over and taking a bit fat stinking shit on the UK. Stupid woman. Now there’s a mental image to go to sleep on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 2 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said: Now there’s a mental image to go to sleep on Be careful ... you might sink in up to your neck .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 20 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: She's absolutely desperate to make her mark in the history books even if that mark is her bending over and taking a bit fat stinking shit on the UK. Stupid woman. Who do we want in charge lifted ? ... want to know so I can sound intelligent when I tell all my mates down the pub ... I’ve no idea by the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboFox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 11 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: She's absolutely desperate to make her mark in the history books even if that mark is her bending over and taking a bit fat stinking shit on the UK. Stupid woman. History won't look favourably on her, that's for sure. She hasn't done herself any favours, but she's been put in a very difficult position. She was just so desperate enough for power that she was willing to take this on, and has suffered the consequences. However, I really hope that ****-face Cameron isn't forgotten about in this omnishambles. He should absolutely be held as accountable as the rest of them for the sh*t sandwich we're all being forced to chow down on. He's responsible for this mess, calling a referendum because of petty squabbling within his own party and ultimately for his own vanity. And look at him today. Not a single **** given. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 7 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Who do we want in charge lifted ? ... want to know so I can sound intelligent when I tell all my mates down the pub ... I’ve no idea by the way. God only knows mate, I don't trust a single politician to do the right thing anymore. The only politician who looks like she remotely gives a shit about her country and would put her neck on the line to do right by her people is Nicola Sturgeon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 5 minutes ago, RoboFox said: However, I really hope that ****-face Cameron isn't forgotten about in this omnishambles. He should absolutely be held as accountable as the rest of them for the sh*t sandwich we're all being forced to chow down on. He's responsible for this mess, calling a referendum because of petty squabbling within his own party and ultimately for his own vanity. And look at him today. Not a single **** given. It was the first thing he was going to barter away in his coalition with the Lib Dems if he won. I do agree with you - if leaving the EU was going to be so deleterious to the country it was his grave responsibility to make sure it couldn't happen. There was certainly a desire for it though, the biggest turnout in British history - the way he scarpared after was absolutely disgraceful - maybe he should return as Brexit Secretary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 2 minutes ago, RoboFox said: History won't look favourably on her, that's for sure. She hasn't done herself any favours, but she's been put in a very difficult position. She was just so desperate enough for power that she was willing to take this on, and has suffered the consequences. However, I really hope that ****-face Cameron isn't forgotten about in this omnishambles. He should absolutely be held as accountable as the rest of them for the sh*t sandwich we're all being forced to chow down on. He's responsible for this mess, calling a referendum because of petty squabbling within his own party and ultimately for his own vanity. And look at him today. Not a single **** given. Good point Robo ... but then let’s not forget Blair who opened the nations front door as wide as he could and not kid ourselves that this became a subconscious factor that ultimately caused a lot of people to vote for Brexit .... and he did that cus he was fed up with people voting in old money Tory w@nkers and wanted to try and change that by changing the make up of voters ... we could play this game all night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 11 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Who do we want in charge lifted ? ... want to know so I can sound intelligent when I tell all my mates down the pub ... I’ve no idea by the way. You have mates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 There is clear reason to believe that the original vote was tampered with and influenced by outside money and interference. It should be void. There is mounting evidence to suggest the people want another say on the available options. There should be a mandatory vote for everyone in the UK that is eligible after a clear presentation of the current FACTS. Those facts should be presented by an independant source that is neither funded nor in the pocket of the government like most of the think-tanks / news outlets. Everything up to this point has been nothing but a show and a farce. Its absolutely ****ing disgusting that the UK has been pulled apart like this on a bed of lies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 3 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: God only knows mate, I don't trust a single politician to do the right thing anymore. The only politician who looks like she remotely gives a shit about her country and would put her neck on the line to do right by her people is Nicola Sturgeon. I agree with that .... apart from the bit about wee Jimmy Krankie ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said: You have mates Yes ... 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 2 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: The only politician who looks like she remotely gives a shit about her country and would put her neck on the line to do right by her people is Nicola Sturgeon. Good grief So us leaving a Union that we do 44% of our trade with is a complete disaster but Sturgeon trying to leave a Union her country does 75% of its trade with the right thing? Let's not even get onto things like healthcare spending. Can't actually believe you've came out with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 1 minute ago, lifted*fox said: There is clear reason to believe that the original vote was tampered with and influenced by outside money and interference. It should be void. There is mounting evidence to suggest the people want another say on the available options. There should be a mandatory vote for everyone in the UK that is eligible after a clear presentation of the current FACTS. Those facts should be presented by an independant source that is neither funded nor in the pocket of the government like most of the think-tanks / news outlets. Everything up to this point has been nothing but a show and a farce. Its absolutely ****ing disgusting that the UK has been pulled apart like this on a bed of lies. Too late ... we’re in it up to our neck now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 22 hours ago, BlueSi13 said: OK so imagine we hold a second Leave/Remain referendum (as preposterous as that is), what happens if Remain wins it by 52/48? Soft-Remain? Those of us that voted leave have been constantly told that we need to respect the wishes of the minority that voted Remain, hence the BRINO we are getting now. How will the Remain camp respect the wishes of those that voted Leave in this scenario? Just read this, what a crock of shit. There is no compromise on leaving the EU that suits 48% of British people who voted to remain. Whatever agreement is struck is unlikely to suit more than that many people who voted leave. We shouldn't be leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 6 minutes ago, Bryn said: Just read this, what a crock of shit. There is no compromise on leaving the EU that suits 48% of British people who voted to remain. Whatever agreement is struck is unlikely to suit more than that many people who voted leave. We shouldn't be leaving. What compromise of staying in the EU suits the 52% who voted to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNotFox Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, MattP said: A nice speech, but it doesn't tackle the issue here again which is that this deal has no chance whatsoever of getting through the house of commons. She is (or can be) a very impressive speaker. Fwiw, I believe that she truly believes she's doing the right thing. I think she is trying, to the best of her interpretation and abilities, to deliver 'the will of the people' whilst balancing that with the needs of business, fisheries, agriculture, other bodies, etc. It wasn't so much a speech as (Churchillian?) rallying cry. A call for people to get behind what's she's done and believes in. I reckon she's genuine in that. I'm not sure how many people it'll convince though because too many people are opposed (for differing reasons) to aspects of this draft agreement. It was perhaps inevitable that Brexit would descend into this mess because people were so divided to begin with; there was no clear definition of terms and nobody has ever tried to untangle and declare what 'Brexit' actually entailed. Things have just progressed on (more-or-less) assumptions led by a trust in May whilst she has largely kept people in the dark. So I find it unhelpful that people (across the spectrum; Corbyn does it too, not just May) take a dogmatic approach, a line in the sand, to a second referendum. May is proposing a less than perfect deal because she believes it to be better than no deal. Fair enough - but she's doing that on the basis of her own interpretation of the people's wishes. She seems to have designated herself as the protector of 'the will of the people' - and I'm almost fine with that, almost. As leader, it fell to her to do that. She picked up that ball and ran with it, doggedly so. May is so convinced of her own interpretation, and that it still holds true, she now feels she has to follow through on it, unchecked. Yet it's abundantly clear that the path she's proposing isn't supported by a huge number of MPs. That doesn't make sense to me (and it ought be ringing alarm bells with her) so I don't think it's prudent. It's a hugely important step to take, one which will impact on generations of people for decades to come. May could now just double check, she doesn't need to be dogmatic. Put the question back to the people - make sure that it is STILL the will of the people. Cripes, with many contracts you get a cooling-off period. Why not with something this important? It's not voting until you get the answer you want, it's making absolutely damned sure before you commit. In retrospect, the referendum 2 years ago was perhaps mislabelled (by Cameron) It was perhaps more of a 'call for tender' (if I can put it like that) A request for information - get some due diligence done - and it rightly kicked off an investigative process. That process hasn't gone well (because its terms of reference where not properly defined) but May's done all that can be expected of her. She could now sign it off as job done, report delivered, pending further action. Put the options to the people - the will for a hard Brexit might be there for all I know - then decide the next step. Edited 15 November 2018 by FoxNotFox 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 15 November 2018 Share Posted 15 November 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: There is clear reason to believe that the original vote was tampered with and influenced by outside money and interference. It should be void. There is mounting evidence to suggest the people want another say on the available options. There should be a mandatory vote for everyone in the UK that is eligible after a clear presentation of the current FACTS. Those facts should be presented by an independant source that is neither funded nor in the pocket of the government like most of the think-tanks / news outlets. Everything up to this point has been nothing but a show and a farce. Its absolutely ****ing disgusting that the UK has been pulled apart like this on a bed of lies. Wouldn't be surprised at the very least if Russia were trying to get involved in this type of political debate at the time of voting.. Edited 15 November 2018 by Wymeswold fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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