Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[AKCJ]

6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

This was the Friday afternoon chuckle I needed  

[davieG]

Amber Rudd replaces McVey

 

Amber Rudd becomes sixth work and pensions secretary since March 2016

Amber Rudd becomes the sixth work and pensions secretary since 2016.

• Iain Duncan Smith held the role from May 2010 to March 2016
• Stephen Crabb held the role from March 2016 to July 2016
• Damian Green held the role from July 2016 to June 2017
• David Gauke held the role from June 2017 to January 2018
• Esther McVey held the role from January 2018 until yesterday
• Today Amber Rudd becomes the new work and pensions secretary

 

 

[mancunianfox]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

Amber Rudd replaces McVey

Not a bad gig considering it is barely 6 months she resigned for misleading a commons select committee.

[yorkie1999]

Just now, davieG said:

Amber Rudd replaces McVey

 

Amber Rudd becomes sixth work and pensions secretary since March 2016

Amber Rudd becomes the sixth work and pensions secretary since 2016.

• Iain Duncan Smith held the role from May 2010 to March 2016
• Stephen Crabb held the role from March 2016 to July 2016
• Damian Green held the role from July 2016 to June 2017
• David Gauke held the role from June 2017 to January 2018
• Esther McVey held the role from January 2018 until yesterday
• Today Amber Rudd becomes the new work and pensions secretary

 

 

Obviously overworked and pensioned off then.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Shows how desperate she is that Rudd's back in cabinet 

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Is interesting how she peddled that for months but now it's any deal is better than no deal

It's because she knows that no deal would be absolutely catastrophic and that she'd probably have blood (deaths) on her hands from lack of medical resources as a result. 

[davieG]

Stephen Barclay has been confirmed as the new Brexit Secretary as Theresa May seeks to fill posts in her cabinet.

The MP for North East Cambridgeshire and Leave supporter had been serving as a minister at the department for health and social care.

He replaces Dominic Raab, who resigned on Thursday over Mrs May's withdrawal agreement for Brexit.

A spokesman for No 10 said Mr Barclay will continue preparations for a deal or no deal in his new role.

The announcement comes after Amber Rudd was named the new work and pensions secretary - replacing Esther McVey, who also resigned over the PM's Brexit plans on Thursday.

[ClaphamFox]

It's all heading inexorably towards a second referendum. The deal May has obtained from the EU is highly unlikely to get through parliament, at which point she will either resign or get pushed out. She will probably be replaced by a more 'hard Brexit' PM, who will fail to win any concessions from the EU, at which point it will look like we are leaving with no deal. However, the large majority of MPs are strongly against a no-deal Brexit, as is the business community and, increasingly, the public. There will be huge pressure on parliament to block a hard Brexit, which it will do one way or another (there are various ways this could happen). At which point the only way out of this horrible mess will be to go back and ask the electorate again, possibly with three options this time (no deal, May deal or remain). 

 

Edited 16 November 2018 by ClaphamFox

[Smudge]

 

I have tried to understand the Customs Union, Single Market and Hard Brexit and I haven't a bloody clue which is best for the nation.

How anyone can make an informed opinion on the scant information available blows my mind. 

[yorkie1999]

To me the whole problem stems from the fact that politicians don't seem to understand what their role is in this mess, and it is they who have created this mess by not adhering to the wishes of the majority of the nation. They're role is to simply take us out of the EU, end of. Can they do that, no chance, because they believe they know better. They are not politicians representing their parties in this, they are administrators whose task is to follow the wishes of the people and create a plan of action of how to leave, but instead of doing that, they've turned it all round for political gain and shown their true colours of interfering backstabbers who will stand at nothing to gain ultimate power. It should never have gone through the house of commons in the first place, everyone knew they'd fvck it up. The nation has voted to leave the EU, so why is everyone still arguing about petty deals and whether we should have another vote. What's the point of a deal if we're going to have another vote! Fvck me, this country is going backwards in it's ability to solve problems.

[ClaphamFox]

14 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

To me the whole problem stems from the fact that politicians don't seem to understand what their role is in this mess, and it is they who have created this mess by not adhering to the wishes of the majority of the nation. They're role is to simply take us out of the EU, end of. Can they do that, no chance, because they believe they know better. They are not politicians representing their parties in this, they are administrators whose task is to follow the wishes of the people and create a plan of action of how to leave, but instead of doing that, they've turned it all round for political gain and shown their true colours of interfering backstabbers who will stand at nothing to gain ultimate power. It should never have gone through the house of commons in the first place, everyone knew they'd fvck it up. The nation has voted to leave the EU, so why is everyone still arguing about petty deals and whether we should have another vote. What's the point of a deal if we're going to have another vote! Fvck me, this country is going backwards in it's ability to solve problems.

There is a strong possibility that the nation no longer wants to leave the EU, so the only truly democratic thing to do is to have another vote and see.

[urban.spaceman]

Foreign Office 'allowed Pakistan mob to dictate Asia Bibi asylum case'

Home Office urged not to grant asylum out of fears for the safety of consular staff

Patrick Wintour

Tue 13 Nov 2018 18.22 GMTLast modified on Wed 14 Nov 2018 01.00 GMT

•  
•  
•  

Shares

1,046

 

 

 Asia Bibi remains in protective custody in an undisclosed location in Pakistan. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images

The Foreign Office has been accused of allowing government asylum policy to be dictated to by a Pakistan mob after it was confirmed it urged the Home Office not to grant Asia Bibi political asylum in the UK out of fear for the safety of UK consular staff.

Asia Bibi, a Christian woman acquitted of blasphemy, is seeking asylum after threats to her life in Pakistan. The former UK foreign secretary Boris Johnsonwas among many MPs calling for her and her family to be granted sanctuary in Britain.

The acquittal of the 53-year-old Catholic farmworker by Pakistan’s supreme court last month prompted demonstrations by hardline Islamist parties in Pakistan who had campaigned for her to be hanged.

Advertisement

She remains in protective custody in an undisclosed locationin Pakistan after the prime minister, Imran Khan, agreed to allow a petition against the court’s decision as part of a deal to halt the protests.

Her husband, Ashiq Masih, has appealed for help to Britain, Canada, Italy and the US but the UK high commissioner in Islamabad is reported to have warned he could not protect his staff if asylum was granted by the UK.

Tom Tugendhat, the foreign affairs select committee chair, asked the Foreign Office permanent secretary, Sir Simon McDonald, whether the episode “does not raise the question that either staff should be withdrawn or security increased or otherwise UK policy is effectively dictated to by a mob?”.

Tugendhat took the committee into lengthy private session after McDonald said he did not wish to give evidence in public on a such a sensitive issue 

McDonald defended Britain’s efforts to find a third country to take Bibi, saying this would allow UK policy objectives to be achieved without any risk to its staff.

Tugendhat said the episode represented “one of the clearest examples of free conscience being challenged today”.

The senior Labour MP Mike Gapes said: “Given the clear inability of this new Pakistani government of Imran Khan to stop these mobs from intimidating and killing Christians in Pakistan, is it not time to reassess our relations with Pakistan? There are big concerns if religious minorities in Pakistan are not safe.”

McDonald said the Britain’s relationship with Pakistan relationship was important to both countries.

He added: “If the objective is to protect life and some other country can provide some more complete safe harbour, why should the UK not be open to working with that country?”

The Pakistan foreign office confirmed on Tuesday that it had been holding talks with the Canadian foreign ministry over granting Bibi asylum.

Confirmation of talks between the two governments came after the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, said on Monday his government was talking to Pakistan about the case.

“We are in discussions with the Pakistani government,” Trudeau said in an interview with Agence France-Presse (AFP) in Paris, where he was attending a peace conference organised by the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

There is a strong possibility that the nation no longer wants to leave the EU, so the only truly democratic thing to do is to have another vote and see.

Maybe so, but my point was that the government was tasked, by a democratic vote, to take us out of the EU and not, as it now appears, to fvck things up so badly that no-one now believes in the original decision. In fact, i think it's all a massive charade of delaying tactics because the ministers in charge of taking the country out of the EU don't want to take the country out of the EU so instead of concentrating on the job in hand , they've left it until the last possible moment that there is no alternative to having another referendum, but in that interim period, have managed to sway public opinion against the idea of leaving the EU because the country will be doomed if we do so. They've hoodwinked the nation.

Edited 16 November 2018 by yorkie1999

[Buce]

18 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Maybe so, but my point was that the government was tasked, by a democratic vote, to take us out of the EU and not, as it now appears, to fvck things up so badly that no-one now believes in the original decision. In fact, i think it's all a massive charade of delaying tactics because the ministers in charge of taking the country out of the EU don't want to take the country out of the EU so instead of concentrating on the job in hand , they've left it until the last possible moment that there is no alternative to having another referendum, but in that interim period, have managed to sway public opinion against the idea of leaving the EU because the country will be doomed if we do so. They've hoodwinked the nation.

2

 

Ironic if they have, since the nation was hoodwinked into voting to leave in the first place.

Edited 16 November 2018 by Buce

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Ironic if they have, since the nation was hoodwinked into voting to leave in the first place.

The nation was hoodwinked into voting in the first place, what was wrong with how it was, i wasn't complaining about being part of the EU, nor was anyone else i know,  my life has never been affected by immigrants and i could jump on a bike and ride all the way down to the Pyrenees without having to bother with border controls. All it has achieved is, instead of having a divided tory government, we now have a divided nation. Divide and conquer. But, that's beside the point. Our politicians have failed to do the job they were tasked with, yet somehow switched it round to make it our fault and our problem. Divide and conquer. MF scumbags. 

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The nation was hoodwinked into voting in the first place, what was wrong with how it was, i wasn't complaining about being part of the EU, nor was anyone else i know,  my life has never been affected by immigrants and i could jump on a bike and ride all the way down to the Pyrenees without having to bother with border controls. All it has achieved is, instead of having a divided tory government, we now have a divided nation. Divide and conquer. But, that's beside the point. Our politicians have failed to do the job they were tasked with, yet somehow switched it round to make it our fault and our problem. Divide and conquer. MF scumbags. 

 

Yeah, of all the shitty things to come out of this, the 90-day visa limit is the one I hate most. Being able to travel where and when I liked, for as long as I liked, is something I was looking forward to for when I retire.

 

Like you rightly say, things were mostly fine just as they were, and the things that weren't were nothing to do with being in the EU.

[davieG]

Brexit: Where we are in eight charts

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46234602

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah, of all the shitty things to come out of this, the 90-day visa limit is the one I hate most. Being able to travel where and when I liked, for as long as I liked, is something I was looking forward to for when I retire.

 

Like you rightly say, things were mostly fine just as they were, and the things that weren't were nothing to do with being in the EU.

Things in this country were going fine until the referendum, governments like to stir the shit, anybody with a bit of power likes to stir the shit as it gives them more power, i learnt this as an apprentice in a union shop where the dumb tw*ts with the biggest voice seemed to run the show, whereas anyone who paid attention at school and got a bit of an education tended to concentrate on what they were doing and not get sucked into petty arguments but ended up having to go with the flow. Well those union officials, and their like, have now moved onto bigger things, much to the detriment of the rest of us.

[surrifox]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Foreign Office 'allowed Pakistan mob to dictate Asia Bibi asylum case'

Home Office urged not to grant asylum out of fears for the safety of consular staff

Patrick Wintour

Tue 13 Nov 2018 18.22 GMTLast modified on Wed 14 Nov 2018 01.00 GMT

•  
•  
•  

Shares

1,046

 

 

 Asia Bibi remains in protective custody in an undisclosed location in Pakistan. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images

The Foreign Office has been accused of allowing government asylum policy to be dictated to by a Pakistan mob after it was confirmed it urged the Home Office not to grant Asia Bibi political asylum in the UK out of fear for the safety of UK consular staff.

Asia Bibi, a Christian woman acquitted of blasphemy, is seeking asylum after threats to her life in Pakistan. The former UK foreign secretary Boris Johnsonwas among many MPs calling for her and her family to be granted sanctuary in Britain.

The acquittal of the 53-year-old Catholic farmworker by Pakistan’s supreme court last month prompted demonstrations by hardline Islamist parties in Pakistan who had campaigned for her to be hanged.

Advertisement

She remains in protective custody in an undisclosed locationin Pakistan after the prime minister, Imran Khan, agreed to allow a petition against the court’s decision as part of a deal to halt the protests.

Her husband, Ashiq Masih, has appealed for help to Britain, Canada, Italy and the US but the UK high commissioner in Islamabad is reported to have warned he could not protect his staff if asylum was granted by the UK.

Tom Tugendhat, the foreign affairs select committee chair, asked the Foreign Office permanent secretary, Sir Simon McDonald, whether the episode “does not raise the question that either staff should be withdrawn or security increased or otherwise UK policy is effectively dictated to by a mob?”.

Tugendhat took the committee into lengthy private session after McDonald said he did not wish to give evidence in public on a such a sensitive issue 

McDonald defended Britain’s efforts to find a third country to take Bibi, saying this would allow UK policy objectives to be achieved without any risk to its staff.

Tugendhat said the episode represented “one of the clearest examples of free conscience being challenged today”.

The senior Labour MP Mike Gapes said: “Given the clear inability of this new Pakistani government of Imran Khan to stop these mobs from intimidating and killing Christians in Pakistan, is it not time to reassess our relations with Pakistan? There are big concerns if religious minorities in Pakistan are not safe.”

McDonald said the Britain’s relationship with Pakistan relationship was important to both countries.

He added: “If the objective is to protect life and some other country can provide some more complete safe harbour, why should the UK not be open to working with that country?”

The Pakistan foreign office confirmed on Tuesday that it had been holding talks with the Canadian foreign ministry over granting Bibi asylum.

Confirmation of talks between the two governments came after the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, said on Monday his government was talking to Pakistan about the case.

“We are in discussions with the Pakistani government,” Trudeau said in an interview with Agence France-Presse (AFP) in Paris, where he was attending a peace conference organised by the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

Absolutely shameful that Britain doesn't do the right thing and offer this family safe passage and asylum . We now allow a bunch of nutters to dictate to us . If Pakistan cannot guarantee the safety of our embassy and consular staff we should close it and withdraw from the country .

[Buce]

22 minutes ago, surrifox said:

Absolutely shameful that Britain doesn't do the right thing and offer this family safe passage and asylum . We now allow a bunch of nutters to dictate to us . If Pakistan cannot guarantee the safety of our embassy and consular staff we should close it and withdraw from the country .

 

I suspect her safety in this country may have been an issue as well.

[Spudulike]

9 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

The attention seeking twat doesn't seem to be around today. Day off or something more sinister ??

[Trav Le Bleu]

Was really looking forward to Hislop and Merton getting their teeth into this tonight.

 

 

 

But no, Children in Need.

[Charl91]

It was said all along that we wouldn't get this amazing deal that was promised. It was said all along that the EU would barely budge; as was foretold, this has proven to be the case. Rather than accept this, it's the EU's/The Governments/Someone elses fault, and Brexiteers would definitely be able to negotiate another, better deal,while simultaneously being unable to say what this new deal would entail.

Edited 16 November 2018 by Charl91

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

It's all heading inexorably towards a second referendum. The deal May has obtained from the EU is highly unlikely to get through parliament, at which point she will either resign or get pushed out. She will probably be replaced by a more 'hard Brexit' PM, who will fail to win any concessions from the EU, at which point it will look like we are leaving with no deal. However, the large majority of MPs are strongly against a no-deal Brexit, as is the business community and, increasingly, the public. There will be huge pressure on parliament to block a hard Brexit, which it will do one way or another (there are various ways this could happen). At which point the only way out of this horrible mess will be to go back and ask the electorate again, possibly with three options this time (no deal, May deal or remain). 

 

The politicians and Panels,are now putting it out,how difficult the process has been. Sorry hard yes,not difficult..the electorate wanted out,so negotiations

should of been at a minimum..

 

#How much will we still owe...

#No customs union.

#What have you had the EU got to offer.

#Irish border question.

#Movement of goods, through Europe...in / out of Britain.

#Farm goods

#Fishing rights

#Long and short time immigrant ruling,mainly of a question 1st on British approach,EU would just recipricate,or individual country would act

According how Britain treat their citizens.t

# British passport holders agreements, if any!!!

#Security handshaking..

#Military zones

#British Airlines and shipping companies in Europe.

 

that seemed the mainstay of Brexit needs,from within the Brexit electorate...So what was difficult to negotiate!! For Brexit.

I actually believe the politicians who chose the Brexit side,were not forefront Brexiteers,including the Johnson Bros and

even Grove. They just wanted a platform...

 

I am an expat,my stance was remain..Because from my angle,I saw the difficulties that some would still  find ignorantly suprising,

Because of the  lack of homework done by the electorate and their poor chosen/elected politicians.And feared what actually did happen,

the downright lies from both sides,for their own benifits,and not Britains!!  No cross-party involvement ruined it for me!!

 

Yes it was going to be diificult..but the British government has not listened at all to the UK electorates concerns,they have just took

their own options.Plus I still  see organised,controlled immigration will not be on the table, not complete Sovereignty,if any!!!

No choice on Movement in goods or Business...!!! Not just Europe but WWide!!

Plus no one in their lifetime,will see any improvement on desperately needed infrastructure or in the  NHS....Not what they tell you they have

Spent,but what people see,and can be extra newly proud of.!!!

 

It's seems the UK spun the wheel,and lost!!!   No I am not happy,it's the country of my Birth,It hurts......but now honestly I have my own life,

my own worries,and presently ( maybe not in the future) I am happy with what I get from within the society I live in..

The country was in my youth still rebuilding....that stopped,I welcomed immigration,then to no blame to our new citizens,I seen home politicians

and businesses abusing  and misusing it.To keep wages low...Failing to invest in THE nursing and doctors,the engineering industries.

Roads and rail...Money was in the UK,but it never,never filtered down or through!!!

Then many seemed it the right modus,to be all Dell-boys. Office work though has important got bogged down in admin,like hospitals OTT,and

Citizens general council needs. 

 

I don't think there wasn't one brit friend or relation,that wasnt upset by some business/trade cowboy...Pride of oneself and what one offered

seemed to of  Left the British street,and Govt-offices.   

Though fair dues,when I have business with the Passport,and National-insurance office >pensions < they were and still are excellent

concientious helpfully  workers...

I don't know!!but I still wonder if the British political hierchy,still has the old British gentry/land owner approach!!!

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

It's all heading inexorably towards a second referendum. The deal May has obtained from the EU is highly unlikely to get through parliament, at which point she will either resign or get pushed out. She will probably be replaced by a more 'hard Brexit' PM, who will fail to win any concessions from the EU, at which point it will look like we are leaving with no deal. However, the large majority of MPs are strongly against a no-deal Brexit, as is the business community and, increasingly, the public. There will be huge pressure on parliament to block a hard Brexit, which it will do one way or another (there are various ways this could happen). At which point the only way out of this horrible mess will be to go back and ask the electorate again, possibly with three options this time (no deal, May deal or remain).  

 

No deal or Mays deal should be the only two options.

 

But they won't be.