State pension age raised yet again

[LiberalFox]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

For me, what it comes down to is, the gov have, quite rightly, made us pay through tax and NI towards our own state pensions. it isn't a freebie. Workers of all ages should be entitled to their pension at 65 as promised because they will have paid for it during their working lives, expecting it to kick in after roughly 45yrs of work and contributions. 

Is it right that younger workers now will have to pay more and work longer to get the (reduced) state pension?

The problem is that it isn't prefunded but instead it is paid for by the taxpayer. Nobody paid towards their state pension. They probably pay towards their public sector or private sector pension if they have one. Why should the state prioritise paying other people's money out to over 65's who are still capable of working and may have accumulated assets? That money could pay for a better education system or a better health system. 

[Rincewind]

4 hours ago, Parafox said:

Work till you die, then?

Can someone in a physical job, construction, trucking, emergency services, loaders and packers, train drivers (who need an alert mind), and the rest. How can it be right that these groups are expected to work until they almost literally drop?

68 is an age when so many people are incapable of physical work. I grant you, that there are many who are and that's fine for them, but what provision will be made for those that can't? I don't know what your profession is but are you really willing to work until you're approaching 70? What of those who will have no private pension to fall back on? Generally they'll be amongst the lowest paid manual workers who will have to slog on to 68, knackered by years of hard manual work. If they live much beyond 68 they'll be in the minority.

Saves the Gov millions in pensions as people will be eligible for fewer years before they die.

 

I was going to say something like this but probably noy as well put. In a lot of jobs people develop illnesses around the age of 60. They need time off work for treatment and operations. If they lose their jobs at 60 how long will they be on benefits or JSA if told they are fit for work and to get a job? That is an 8 year gap in non NI contributions. Will it affect their pension. 

There is no doubt people in non manual work will be able to carry on for a couple of years if they are in good health Maybe there should be a 5 year leeway and a choice. Say 65-70 you can retire with a pension or carry on with a percentage of the pension on top of your salary.  Dependant on the salary. The idea will need some thought.

When the last company I worked for went up the spout my intention was that it would be my last job regardless. I could not wait for 65 to arrive or as I found out after 60 when I took pension credit. I never really enjoyed any job I did so to drag it out for eight more years would be a nightmare especially I could collapse at work or only last a couple of years after retirement.

If a person enjoys their work can get around and are good at their job and wants to carry on then let them but do not force people who struggle in daily life and may not be able yo give their all to work till they drop.

I went by the saying I work to live not live to work.  One manager of the hosiery firm I worked for dropped dead at his car as he was rushing back to work one lunch hour. He was 60.

[katieakita]

So many facets to this but also you have the gig economy where many "employers" are actively avoiding paying into the pot hence the Taylor report. The state owned Post Office has just paid senior managers a £1 million + bonus for reducing losses much of this by enforcing changed contracts to avoid them paying National Insurance contributions to the treasury with their last announced payment to the treasury  being down by £11 million triggering a bonus payment. 

[ozleicester]

You voted for the greedy tories

 

Those saying we are able to work longer need to ask urselves. If there arent enough jobs now.... how will there be. when an extra 2 million oldies are competing... you will just be complaining about dole bludgers

[Webbo]

7 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

What we need is lots of lovely immigrants of working age

Problem is, eventually all those millions of immigrant workers will get to retirement age themselves .

[Bellend Sebastian]

9 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Problem is, eventually all those millions of immigrant workers will get to retirement age themselves .

I am all too aware of this and to address it I propose that at that point they all be transported to Van Diemen's Land.

 

Too quickly do we reject the use of 19th century solutions for 21st century problems

[davieG]

I was made redundant at 50 along with about 10 others all of us at or about that age. I had good qualifications and work record it took me 2 years to get a part time job.

Companies are keen to get rid of and no one wants to employ older people. 

Even when they do there's moans about keeping young people out of work.

Let's see the MPs pensions brought inline with the vast majority of occupational pensions 

 

MPs save into the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund. A defined benefit pension scheme, it pays out based on final earnings at retirement, and the number of years MPs have been a member of the fund.

Nowadays, these defined benefit schemes are a bit of dying breed. The bulk of Brits now pay into defined contribution schemes, as put simply many employers can’t (or just aren’t willing) to foot the bill for defined benefit pensions. They guarantee a retirement income and bring a little more saving certainty, and they can also prove pretty lucrative - especially if you’re a politician…

18,500 reasons to become an MP?

Some digging by the Daily Mail suggests that ten years’ service (around the average tenure) could entitle an MP to £18,500 a year in retirement - a pretty impressive pension by today’s standards.

To put things into context, only by saving a staggering £300,000 into your pension could you expect to generate a similar income, given current annuity rates on the market. And barely anyone has that much saved. It’s estimated the average pension pot for a 55-70 year old only sits at £85,000*.

Then of course there's the gold plated pensions of £300,000 + a year paid out in the world of finance and other executive roles.

 

...and no I'm not jealous I'm extremely happy with my occupational pension which I contributed to beyond the basics. I just fear for my kids and other younger people. There's some serious wrongs in this modern globalised money driven world.

[Webbo]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

You voted for the greedy tories

 

Those saying we are able to work longer need to ask urselves. If there arent enough jobs now.... how will there be. when an extra 2 million oldies are competing... you will just be complaining about dole bludgers

What's greedy about it? The money saved won't go into the pocket of Tory MPs.

 

What is the state pension now? It used to be around £120 its probably more now. You could be claiming that for20 to 30 years. We'll soon be at the stage where there are more pensioners than tax payers. Add the increasing costs to the NHS from the aging population, what does the basic rate of income tax have to be to pay for all this if we don't make any changes?

[RODNEY FERNIO]

The pension situation is basically a national crisis and has only recently been recognised. At least the Tories are trying to address the situation with auto enrolment

and other measures . I'm not sure what the projections are but would not be surprised if in the future the amount of retired people exceeds the number of working people.

 

I'm 54 now and still have a mortgage to pay off and a small pension pot ... which I have not a great amount of spare cash to add to. The only way I can see I'll have a reasonable

retirement is inheritance and/or flogging the house .

 

Sometimes wish I had been born in Sweden ... where the Government  takes a lot more money off you but you can get a pension of up to 70 per cent of your salary

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

There is an argument to be made for different retirement ages depending on profession. Granted. However, it'd be remarkably difficult to put in to practice as people do not have one job for life anymore and change professions.

Isn't it currently the case that people do retire at different ages depending on profession, or at least after x amount of years service.

[Crinklyfox]

12 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

There is an argument to be made for different retirement ages depending on profession. Granted. However, it'd be remarkably difficult to put in to practice as people do not have one job for life anymore and change professions.

 

It doesn't change the central point of affordability. The pension ponzi scheme works when we have a growing population of working age. Not so much when we don't. 

 

And me. I plan to work as long as I can. People who retire are different people a year later. They're not as sharp.

Speaking as one who has retired.  I wasn't aware that I was becoming less sharp than during my working life.  Nor am I aware of it for most of my fellow retirees.  IMO so long as you remain mentally active rather than becoming a cabbage the only major effect on mental acuity is the ageing process.

 

If we have but a single profession during our working lives then we're fortunate.  The pace of change and needs of the job market mean that many of us will have to re-train or develop into different professions during the now nearly fifty years of our working lives so I'm opposed to a scheme that relies solely on profession.  Our current system is not perfect but it largely prevents those who are either not able to enter the job market, or cannot for health reasons, from abject poverty.

 

Most employers don't want an older workforce.  Statistically older people are more likely to experience health problems which makes them less attractive to employers.  I took up my final full time position at the age of 58 but consider myself to be the exception rather than the rule.  I used to work in London and walking across London Bridge every morning I gained the impression that anyone over 45 was an endangered species because there weren't many of us left.

 

 

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

What's greedy about it? The money saved won't go into the pocket of Tory MPs.

 

What is the state pension now? It used to be around £120 its probably more now. You could be claiming that for20 to 30 years. We'll soon be at the stage where there are more pensioners than tax payers. Add the increasing costs to the NHS from the aging population, what does the basic rate of income tax have to be to pay for all this if we don't make any changes?

The greed is the cutting of services (pensions ) to the poor whilst cutting tax to the corporates and wealthy.

 

And the problem remains, there are not enough jobs now... what are the 67 year olds going to be doing and what of the 20 year olds?

 

You cant ask people to work longer if there are no jobs

[Captain...]

You can retire whenever you want, you are encouraged to set up a private pension scheme and employers are legally obliged to pay contributions (despite this none of them have packed up and gone abroad but that is a separate point). The state pension is separate and normally much less than your private pension, the problem is paying it out is a huge drain on the public pot and the public purse is pretty empty at the mo. So what can you do? One thing to consider is that with the retirement age increased then you are extending the period in which people can receive unemployment benefits. Anyone below the retirement age who can't find a job will be eligible for job seekers or possibly disability allowance if they are incapable of working at that age. They won't be left to fend for themselves until they are 68.

 

There are also a lot of people out there who are entitled to a state pension because they have been paying into it, but really don't need it as they have a substantial private pension. I  know it won't be popular and I don't know how many would be happy to give it up, but there is an argument to have it means tested and treat state pensions as part of the welfare state have it as a safety net rather than a right.

[m4DD0gg]

Sod pensions. If I had the chance I would pull back all my Ni payments and go private on every thing they fund. 

 

Also if you want any sort of decent retirement get into property. 

[katieakita]

23 minutes ago, Captain... said:

You can retire whenever you want, you are encouraged to set up a private pension scheme and employers are legally obliged to pay contributions (despite this none of them have packed up and gone abroad but that is a separate point). The state pension is separate and normally much less than your private pension, the problem is paying it out is a huge drain on the public pot and the public purse is pretty empty at the mo. So what can you do? One thing to consider is that with the retirement age increased then you are extending the period in which people can receive unemployment benefits. Anyone below the retirement age who can't find a job will be eligible for job seekers or possibly disability allowance if they are incapable of working at that age. They won't be left to fend for themselves until they are 68.

 

There are also a lot of people out there who are entitled to a state pension because they have been paying into it, but really don't need it as they have a substantial private pension. I  know it won't be popular and I don't know how many would be happy to give it up, but there is an argument to have it means tested and treat state pensions as part of the welfare state have it as a safety net rather than a right.

I can think of one government owned company who refuses to accept the findings of the pensions regulator, as for payouts it varies from experience. So do appear to do very well having put little or nothing in.

[Webbo]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

The greed is the cutting of services (pensions ) to the poor whilst cutting tax to the corporates and wealthy.

 

And the problem remains, there are not enough jobs now... what are the 67 year olds going to be doing and what of the 20 year olds?

 

You cant ask people to work longer if there are no jobs

The state pension goes to every one who's paid the correct amount of national insurance contribution. Nothing to do with rich or poor.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

The greed is the cutting of services (pensions ) to the poor whilst cutting tax to the corporates and wealthy.

 

And the problem remains, there are not enough jobs now... what are the 67 year olds going to be doing and what of the 20 year olds?

 

You cant ask people to work longer if there are no jobs

Pensions have gone up weekly by quite a lot since the Labour government. As has the amount of money working people can keep tax free. Auto enrolment has encouraged people to save for their future. Perhaps if labour didn't screw over the economy in the 13 years of state meddling they had we would have more money to spend now.

 

There are jobs plenty of jobs (perhaps just not one people want to do) we have record employment, and low tax hopes to encourage the most skilled individuals to live here, set up business here and employ people here. Seems a good plan to me.

 

 People are living longer, fact is this costs a lost average age of living is now 80ish so the government have around 12 years at least to fund £120 a week. Add to this the additional cost of the NHS for new developments in health care and an ageing population its unsustainable, something has to give.

[Jattdogg]

Sell your homes (if you own them and have a lot of equity) and move to india. Cheaper to live there and great food can be had 

 

 

[Parafox]

11 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

The problem is that it isn't prefunded but instead it is paid for by the taxpayer. Nobody paid towards their state pension. They probably pay towards their public sector or private sector pension if they have one. Why should the state prioritise paying other people's money out to over 65's who are still capable of working and may have accumulated assets? That money could pay for a better education system or a better health system. 

Then explain where the money comes from if it's not NI contributions and general taxation.

[RODNEY FERNIO]

1 hour ago, Jattdogg said:

Sell your homes (if you own them and have a lot of equity) and move to india. Cheaper to live there and great food can be had 

 

 

Been watching the Marigold hotel ?

[Bellend Sebastian]

51 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Then explain where the money comes from if it's not NI contributions and general taxation.

In the sense that today's state pensions are being paid by the tax and NI of the current workforce. They're not paid into a pot to be drawn on like most work/private pensions.

 

Hence my flippant/provocative comment about us needing more working immigrants

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

In the sense that today's state pensions are being paid by the tax and NI of the current workforce. They're not paid into a pot to be drawn on like most work/private pensions.

 

Hence my flippant/provocative comment about us needing more working immigrants

This is precisely one of the arguments used for having increasing numbers of immigrants. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Foxin_mad said:

Pensions have gone up weekly by quite a lot since the Labour government. As has the amount of money working people can keep tax free. Auto enrolment has encouraged people to save for their future. Perhaps if labour didn't screw over the economy in the 13 years of state meddling they had we would have more money to spend now.

 

There are jobs plenty of jobs (perhaps just not one people want to do) we have record employment, and low tax hopes to encourage the most skilled individuals to live here, set up business here and employ people here. Seems a good plan to me.

 

 People are living longer, fact is this costs a lost average age of living is now 80ish so the government have around 12 years at least to fund £120 a week. Add to this the additional cost of the NHS for new developments in health care and an ageing population its unsustainable, something has to give.

Explain how people are supposed to pay into private pensions when personal debt is reaching record levels, increasingly high %s of income are going on housing costs, inflation is running higher than wage increases and almost half the younger population has student loan repayments as a 9% tax?

[breadandcheese]

Just now, toddybad said:

Explain how people are supposed to pay into private pensions when personal debt is reaching record levels, increasingly high %s of income are going on housing costs, inflation is running higher than wage increases and almost half the population has student loan repayments as a 9% tax?

Auto-enrolment.  

 

At my workplace, no-one has opted out from a pension, so everyone contributes (employee, employer and government)

[Innovindil]

8 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Explain how people are supposed to pay into private pensions when personal debt is reaching record levels, increasingly high %s of income are going on housing costs, inflation is running higher than wage increases and almost half the younger population has student loan repayments as a 9% tax?

Get a better job? The auto enrollment is 1%, which on minimum wage is about £3 a week. Hardly asking for a kidney is it.