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davieG

Technology, Science and the Environment.

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15 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

It's really not that simple - it's more to do with ocean currents than tides, and where the rubbish is dumped. And it's worth remembering that our clean beaches are a comparitively recent phenomenon because of EU legislation. It's not many years ago that we were pumping raw sewage into the sea and our beaches were covered in sanitary products and condoms.

No, but we've cleaned up our act and that's what counts, yet we are still being preached to. Is anyone over in india telling them to clean their mess up, doubt it, but that's one of the countries where the problem lies.

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58 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

No, but we've cleaned up our act and that's what counts, yet we are still being preached to. Is anyone over in india telling them to clean their mess up, doubt it, but that's one of the countries where the problem lies.

 

I dunno, I suspect environmental activists are, but we maybe we should stop buying their cheap shit until they clean up their production methods?

 

But again, we won't because it's all about the capitalists getting richer.

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Anyone using the Three 5G in Leicester? any good? Ah just realised it's only in London for now.

Edited by lavrentis

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The global problems that climate change and various pollution represent aren't going to suddenly miss places that don't contribute to it as much as others, so while pointing that out is probably accurate and makes one feel better it actually means very little.

 

If that sounds unfair, then I'd agree, but the Earth doesn't give two shites about what one country does, only what all of them do overall.

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Just seen a company are trying to implement putting your passport into a phone app so you don't need to carry it around and to reduce queue times. 

 

Personally I hate the idea. We put too much sensitive data into our phones. Adding more but not increasing our security againts hacks is stupid.

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/08/28/how-the-eu-greenpeace-and-celebrities-dehumanize-the-amazon-and-worsen-fires-and-deforestation/#737629de2a16

 

Always more interesting the read about how the world is wrt the people on the ground living their lives rather than westerners saying how the world should be because they're a bit sad. 

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6 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/08/28/how-the-eu-greenpeace-and-celebrities-dehumanize-the-amazon-and-worsen-fires-and-deforestation/#737629de2a16

 

Always more interesting the read about how the world is wrt the people on the ground living their lives rather than westerners saying how the world should be because they're a bit sad. 

...while the accusations of hypocrisy may well be accurate and no one can blame the farmers for voting in their short-term self-interest, do you really think the Earth cares about what humans think of what other humans do, Kopf?

 

It's a simple calculus - if the Amazon continues to be deforested, there will be consequences all over the Earth, including for those farmers that the article seems to care about more than those nasty NGO's. If it doesn't, then there might - just might - not be. Thoughts about what humans have done before are entirely irrelevant to that science and all that argument is is a convenient smokescreen in order to maintain the status quo - even though it appears and is saddeningly unfair that those farmers appear to be screwed whatever side they decide to come down on.

 

Want to develop the Cerrado instead? Fair enough. Want to pay the farmers off? Fair enough (though the guy they voted for clearly doesn't care about the money so I'm not sure how that would work)...but the author of this article really shouldn't hold up ignorance of the future and self-interest as being uniquely and singularly virtuous qualities in this case.

 

 

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8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...while the accusations of hypocrisy may well be accurate and no one can blame the farmers for voting in their short-term self-interest, do you really think the Earth cares about what humans think of what other humans do, Kopf?

 

It's a simple calculus - if the Amazon continues to be deforested, there will be consequences all over the Earth, including for those farmers that the article seems to care about more than those nasty NGO's. If it doesn't, then there might - just might - not be. Thoughts about what humans have done before are entirely irrelevant to that science and all that argument is is a convenient smokescreen in order to maintain the status quo - even though it appears and is saddeningly unfair that those farmers appear to be screwed whatever side they decide to come down on.

 

Want to develop the Cerrado instead? Fair enough. Want to pay the farmers off? Fair enough (though the guy they voted for clearly doesn't care about the money so I'm not sure how that would work)...but the author of this article really shouldn't hold up ignorance of the future and self-interest as being uniquely and singularly virtuous qualities in this case.

 

 

 

The earth might not care but the people on it do, which is really all that's relevant to the problem before us. What I'm always interested in, and what actually solves the challenges before us, is understanding human behaviour, the desires and wants of people, and how people react to incentives, rather than expecting them to be chess pieces to be pushed around by Europe's entitled. 

 

And that's what the author has examined here but Europe's advantaged think that is holding up ignorance as virtuous. 

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17 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

The earth might not care but the people on it do, which is really all that's relevant to the problem before us. What I'm always interested in, and what actually solves the challenges before us, is understanding human behaviour, the desires and wants of people, and how people react to incentives, rather than expecting them to be chess pieces to be pushed around by Europe's entitled. 

 

And that's what the author has examined here but Europe's advantaged think that is holding up ignorance as virtuous. 

Of course human behaviour will dictate the response to this issue, not to mention all others, so yes, it is critical. I guess my point is that it doesn't matter how we feel about this problem, only what we *do* and as such examining such wants and desires has no utility, but as we're not a race of Vulcans those two factors are inextricably linked, aren't they? So I can definitely see where you're coming from.

 

However...though that is a real strength when it comes to solving problems involving other humans (know your enemy and all that), I fear it may be a rather crucial weakness when the source of the problem *has no* wants and desires that we could understand.

 

As I've said frequently, though, I hope that I'm wrong and given the stakes I'll take the vast majority of solutions offered for consideration on this one.

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Of course human behaviour will dictate the response to this issue, not to mention all others, so yes, it is critical. I guess my point is that it doesn't matter how we feel about this problem, only what we *do* and as such examining such wants and desires has no utility, but as we're not a race of Vulcans those two factors are inextricably linked, aren't they? So I can definitely see where you're coming from.

 

However...though that is a real strength when it comes to solving problems involving other humans (know your enemy and all that), I fear it may be a rather crucial weakness when the source of the problem *has no* wants and desires that we could understand.

 

As I've said frequently, though, I hope that I'm wrong and given the stakes I'll take the vast majority of solutions offered for consideration on this one.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

This should be required watching....well, everywhere. Brilliant.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but then again, if it wasn't for all the wars and all the destructive science etc, we wouldn't be watching videos on a football forum.

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11 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but then again, if it wasn't for all the wars and all the destructive science etc, we wouldn't be watching videos on a football forum.

There's no denying warfare is a magnificent driver of progress, but it hasn't really been such on a global scale since the Berlin Wall came down and as the video illustrates it's gotten to the point that the major powers being involved in a direct war these days would have catastrophic consequences.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49520949

 

Top comment, yet again making the vital point.

 

"If we deal with climate change, and it turns out to be a hoax, we've cleaned up the planet and everyone will benefit.

If we don't deal with climate change, and it turns out to be real, we all die."

 

What's the point in taking the risk?

 

(Though tbh I wouldn't go so far as extinction, just civilisational collapse.)

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https://physics.aps.org/featured-article-pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.123.097001

 

In other news, know I'm linking directly to the paper here but the cliff notes version is that it might be possible to get superconductors working at room temperatures, which would be a massive breakthrough in terms of energy generation tech and a variety of other tech areas. Exciting stuff!

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Just now, leicsmac said:

Don't worry, Trump needs only the very best, very bigly hurricanes to spread irradiated matter far and wide. This is merely a Category IV.

 

 

If you take away the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people dying horribly, I have to say I'm quite curious as to what would actually happen. And seeing the fallout (ha pun) of trumpet and co trying to explain why it was a good idea could be hella entertaining. lol

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9 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

If you take away the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people dying horribly, I have to say I'm quite curious as to what would actually happen. And seeing the fallout (ha pun) of trumpet and co trying to explain why it was a good idea could be hella entertaining. lol

There would certainly be a very, very black comedy element there, yes.

 

Speaking from a technical aspect, depending on the yield of the weapon and where it is deployed it might do little more than put down lightly irradiated rainfall across a fair area, or dump a much higher does of irradiated precipitation across a much wider area. What it certainly wouldn't do is affect the pathway of the storm in any way at all.

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1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

There would certainly be a very, very black comedy element there, yes.

 

Speaking from a technical aspect, depending on the yield of the weapon and where it is deployed it might do little more than put down lightly irradiated rainfall across a fair area, or dump a much higher does of irradiated precipitation across a much wider area. What it certainly wouldn't do is affect the pathway of the storm in any way at all.

Don't suppose you've ever stumbled across any videos that show simulations of it have you?

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20 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Don't suppose you've ever stumbled across any videos that show simulations of it have you?

Not that I can find, probably because no one in the modern era scientific community is insane enough to try to model it.

 

However....

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-would-happened-if-you-nuked-a-hurricane-like-trump-reportedly-suggested

 

This is a decent summary.

Edited by leicsmac
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24 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

There would certainly be a very, very black comedy element there, yes.

 

Speaking from a technical aspect, depending on the yield of the weapon and where it is deployed it might do little more than put down lightly irradiated rainfall across a fair area, or dump a much higher does of irradiated precipitation across a much wider area. What it certainly wouldn't do is affect the pathway of the storm in any way at all.

 

This may be of interest to you, Mac.

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13 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

This may be of interest to you, Mac.

Yep, thank you.

 

To be honest, every single idea is as I thought - either useless or with the potential to cause way more problems than it solves, or both.

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29 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

There's hope. People just need to work together.

 

 

 

It's amazing. 

It went viral on reddit and huge numbers of beaches have been cleared from debris. It does restore faith in humanity

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