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Ian Nacho

Is Shakespeare the right man for the job?

By Ian Nacho, in Leicester City Forum

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chicagofox

chicagofox

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Congratulations to Burnley. How did their positive attitude get on last season? United Lost, Everton Lost, Spurs Lost, Liverpool, Lost, Arsenal Lost, Man City Lost, Spurs Lost, Man City Lost, Arsenal Lost, Chelsea Lost.

 

It's wonderful to look at other teams results in isolation of a couple of games. But the reality of it is that they usually lose those games, just like most other teams. There will be games where we pick up results against the bigger clubs, but in the main we will lose. That's not negative, that's reality.

What has Burnley's results last season got to do with their results this season against three top sides?  You say they usually lose these games but this season they haven't.  

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, chicagofox said:

What has Burnley's results last season got to do with their results this season against three top sides? 

It shows that peoples comments about Burnleys positive attitude being something to do with the results is bunkem. You think he's only just started with a positive attitude that people are alluding to?

 

They picked up a few points against the big teams last season, just as they have done this (and just as we did last season). The results last season are a far bigger sample and they show in the main, like everyone else Burnley will mostly lose those games. Whether they are defensive or attacking or have a positive attitude or not... they lose those games because the other teams have spent huge amounts on their teams.

 

17 minutes ago, chicagofox said:

You say they usually lose these games but this season they haven't.  

Lets see what their record is come the end of the season shall we. Happy to wager anything you like they don't keep it up.

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, chicagofox said:

What has Burnley's results last season got to do with their results this season against three top sides?  You say they usually lose these games but this season they haven't.  

I think Babylon's point is that you can take any select number of matches to argue a case either way.

 

In arguing against Shakespeare, there are two sets of results being used. Burnley's performances against the bigger sides against our own and Shakespeare's recent record. Babylon used a similar set of 'select results'. He could have also pointed out that Burnley had benefiting circumstances in each of their results against the top sides. A similar set of officiating decisions which assisted the bigger clubs against us - borderline decisions which we resulted off on Saturday. 

 

The only reasonable way of assessing a manager's performance is over a sustained period of time which would encompass firstly a true indicator of how a team performs and allows for beneficial circumstances. Over a sustained period, Shakey's performance is average. 

 

I question I always ask myself when people advocate a replacement; who do you suggest for a replacement? Without spending an awful lot of money, it's slim pickings out there. 

Edited by Cardiff_Fox
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Col city fan

Col city fan

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How on earth anyone can base any decision on the opening few games of the season is beyond me.

There is no divine right to win games in the Premiership. Huddersfield away, for instance, was never going to be an easy fixture.

And Shakey seems to have been let down by the club who seem to be being run in a shambolic way over recent times. I doubt Shakespeare, given a choice, would have wanted to lose Drinkwater and he definitely has been shafted by the whole Silva nonsense.

Cos that's what it is btw. Utter nonsense.

The next few games will tell us more about Shakespeare as a manager who is learning how to manage at the top level (or not) and also whether the playing personnel at the club are going to be good enough.

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Babylon

Babylon

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Posted
Just now, Col city fan said:

How on earth anyone can base any decision on the opening few games of the season is beyond me.

There is no divine right to win games in the Premiership. Huddersfield away, for instance, was never going to be an easy fixture.

And Shakey seems to have been let down by the club who seem to be being run in a shambolic way over recent times. I doubt Shakespeare, given a choice, would have wanted to lose Drinkwater and he definitely has been shafted by the whole Silva nonsense.

Cos that's what it is btw. Utter nonsense.

The next few games will tell us more about Shakespeare as a manager who is learning how to manage at the top level (or not) and also whether the playing personnel at the club are going to be good enough.

Sickens me to see you being so patient and thoughtful :D

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Livid

Livid

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Posted

It's really hard to say.

 

Our performances against the top sides are nowhere near good enough.

 

Our transfer dealing leaves a lot to be desired and when we do get players in they tend to get injured straight away. Not his fault.

 

His team selection is ok, the fact Andy King was in on Saturday was more due to the lack of options than anything else.

 

His substitutions and tactical changes baffle me at times. Thinking Andy King was going to be a game changer against Chelsea?

 

We'll know more in a couple of months.

 

 

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HankMarvin

HankMarvin

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I think Babylon's point is that you can take any select number of matches to argue a case either way.

 

In arguing against Shakespeare, there are two sets of results being used. Burnley's performances against the bigger sides against our own and Shakespeare's recent record. Babylon used a similar set of 'select results'. He could have also pointed out that Burnley had benefiting circumstances in each of their results against the top sides. A similar set of officiating decisions which assisted the bigger clubs against us - borderline decisions which we resulted off on Saturday. 

 

The only reasonable way of assessing a manager's performance is over a sustained period of time which would encompass firstly a true indicator of how a team performs and allows for beneficial circumstances. Over a sustained period, Shakey's performance is average. 

 

I question I always ask myself when people advocate a replacement; who do you suggest for a replacement? Without spending an awful lot of money, it's slim pickings out there. 

but you cant really compare teams over two seasons either, case and point being Winning the league results - against the following seasons results.

Plus that was their first season back, Im sure there players will be feeling a lot more positive about the season ahead given their good start.

 

Time will tell how it pans out

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Monsell1976

Monsell1976

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1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

How on earth anyone can base any decision on the opening few games of the season is beyond me.

There is no divine right to win games in the Premiership. Huddersfield away, for instance, was never going to be an easy fixture.

And Shakey seems to have been let down by the club who seem to be being run in a shambolic way over recent times. I doubt Shakespeare, given a choice, would have wanted to lose Drinkwater and he definitely has been shafted by the whole Silva nonsense.

Cos that's what it is btw. Utter nonsense.

The next few games will tell us more about Shakespeare as a manager who is learning how to manage at the top level (or not) and also whether the playing personnel at the club are going to be good enough.

You are right col, but in fairness performances for me tells me more about where we are, and as I have said, I'm not convinced by him yet, and we look bereft of ideas at times, which concerns me, as we should be stronger than when we survived the first season, and after freakishly winning the league, stronger than we are now.

 Then investment hasn't strengthened us much, either down to wrong players recruited for inflated prices, or a management team sticking to the players from the title winning team, and players not getting a run to get to their best, or in mendy, nacho, Iborra injury preventing a place.

 I have seen enough of Shakespeare to realise he is going to struggle as manager, but believe he needs time to turn the struggle into a success, but once he has a fully fit squad, there is no hiding place for him, results and performances will have to improve, or he will go, the owners, and club cannot afford relegation, and looking at us as we speak, I can see another season down the lower end of the table.

 Fingers crossed he sorts it out, and things click, as I have said before, don't really want another management change.

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mozartfox

mozartfox

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Posted (edited)

Considering he has been 'seemingly' tucked-up like an 'Arbroath Smokey' by our DoF, I think he definitely deserves more time.

 

How can anyone seriously blame a man that had an integral part of his midfield removed with no readily available replacement??   We were weak enough before Drinkwater was sold off and Mendy was ushered out of the door.   Add to this the injuries and I think he has some justifiable gripes and excuses.  Personally, I think there are others that need binning before Shakey is at the head of the queue.

Edited by mozartfox
why not
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Jimmy

Jimmy

Posted
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7 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

His midfield options for the first five games have been two mid table championship players

and a 20 year old kid. Alex Ferguson would have struggled with those options.

 

Alex Ferguson wouldn't leave his midfield exposed game after game after game

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

but you cant really compare teams over two seasons either, case and point being Winning the league results - against the following seasons results.

Plus that was their first season back, Im sure there players will be feeling a lot more positive about the season ahead given their good start.

 

Time will tell how it pans out

You're missing the point, you can take pretty much any team outside the top 7 or 8 and each season it's the same. The odd win and draw against the bigger teams but generally they lose. It's not even an argument it's fact, because if it wasn't true the big boys wouldn't be top they'd be midtable or lower because they would be dropping points constantly.

 

We all hope to get those results, but they are rare it's just a fact of life when you can't pump half a billion on teams. Burnleey are highly unlikely to keep it up, at some point we'll have our day and get results and it will just even itself out.

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Col city fan

Col city fan

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Monsell1976 said:

You are right col, but in fairness performances for me tells me more about where we are, and as I have said, I'm not convinced by him yet, and we look bereft of ideas at times, which concerns me, as we should be stronger than when we survived the first season, and after freakishly winning the league, stronger than we are now.

 Then investment hasn't strengthened us much, either down to wrong players recruited for inflated prices, or a management team sticking to the players from the title winning team, and players not getting a run to get to their best, or in mendy, nacho, Iborra injury preventing a place.

 I have seen enough of Shakespeare to realise he is going to struggle as manager, but believe he needs time to turn the struggle into a success, but once he has a fully fit squad, there is no hiding place for him, results and performances will have to improve, or he will go, the owners, and club cannot afford relegation, and looking at us as we speak, I can see another season down the lower end of the table.

 Fingers crossed he sorts it out, and things click, as I have said before, don't really want another management change.

Very good post as usual mate. 

Like you, I go on performances rather than points.

I just think it's too soon to tell an awful lot. Only a fortnight back, people were slating Mike Ashley and Newcastle for insufficient investment and now, two wins later, all the talk is of a 6/7 place finish.

Our fixture list has been a nightmare and I expected nothing much from the opening games.

It really is over the next run of games that more analysis should be made, I think.

Edited by Col city fan
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HighPeakFox

HighPeakFox

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Blah blah blah. You are a spectacularly one track pessimistic individual. You really remind me of some banned former posters on here. Is that a coincidence I wonder.....?

Sometimes it takes a poster like that to put more reasonable people in a respectful conversation together. It gives me pause to think 'ok, how do I come across?' 

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