Safe standing - time to act

[SemperEadem]

 

[steveherbe]

I recognise that handsome bloke on the 2nd E of legalise - its me!!

 

Edited 13 June 2018 by steveherbe

[Bayfox]

On 13/06/2018 at 19:08, steveherbe said:

I recognise that handsome bloke on the 2nd E of legalise - its me!!

 

 

See they got your bEst sidE

[davieG]

Leicester City should be allowed safe standing at the King Power Stadium in the next two years says EFL chief executive Shaun Harvey
A parliamentary debate is set to take place on the campaign to bring back standing areas

ByLeicestershire Live
08:00, 20 JUN 2018

English Football League chief executive Shaun Harvey believes clubs in the Championship and Premier League should be allowed to provide legal safe-standing sections within two years.

Speaking to reporters on the day the league has released a new video that explains its position on the debate, Harvey welcomed the government's recent announcement that it was willing to review the all-seater requirement for English football's top two divisions but said it was clear that clubs and fans want choice and the law must change.

Leicester City have said they are working with the Premier League on the matter, while supporter group Union FS have pledged their support for safe standing.

Last month, the EFL and Football Supporters' Federation (FSF) commissioned a survey that revealed more than nine in 10 supporters want the option to stand at football matches, two in three would prefer to stand and nearly one in two would attend more games if standing was officially allowed.

The two-in-three number is higher than several previous surveys conducted on this topic but the figure of at least 90 per cent backing the choice has been steady for more than a decade.

Despite this, in April, sports minister Tracey Crouch rejected a request from West Brom to pilot a safe-standing section next season and then told Press Association Sport only a "vocal minority" want to stand.

Celtic's safe standing area for over 2,000 fans (Image: PA)
That position became untenable when an online petition for a change in the law passed 100,000 signatures, forcing Crouch to call a p arliamentary debate on the matter next Monday. And since then, Labour has publicly backed safe-standing and the Premier League has called for a review, too.

"I will be disappointed if we haven't got to a point that by this time next year there hasn't been significant movement on this and by that I mean a (parliamentary) vote on the matter within 12 months," said Harvey.

Asked if this could mean the all-seater requirement is dropped in time for the start of the 2019/20 season, Harvey said: "That might be a bit of a stretch because you would need some time for implementation but certainly for the start of the 2020/21 season, that would be realistic.

"And there would be an immediate benefit because promoted clubs with licensed standing areas would not they would not have to install seats."

This last point is fundamental to the EFL's position on the current rules, which were brought in after the 1989 Hillsborough disaster: next season there will be 22 EFL clubs, in all three divisions, with legal standing areas, so the rule cannot be justified on safety grounds.

"In our view, it's not a safety issue, as any form of licensed standing has to be compliant with the (Sports Grounds Safety Authority's) Green Guide, so, by definition, it's safe as 22 clubs have satisfied this requirement," said Harvey.

He explained the EFL was "agnostic" on the various safe-standing options - Bundesliga-style rail seats, updated terraces, managed standing in seated areas and so on - but strongly believed this decision should be made locally, by those who best "understand the dynamics of the ground and those who use it".

In effect, this is the Labour policy of allowing clubs and their local safety advisory groups to make the appropriate decision for each stadium.

Harvey added that the EFL believes a maximum limit of 7,500 safe-standing spaces per "area", not stadium, would be sensible as he did not believe there is an appetite for returning to the pre-Hillsborough days of more than 20,000 fans standing on a terrace.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/leicester-city-should-allowed-safe-1692942

[Rob H]

On 06/06/2018 at 12:12, davieG said:

I sit in G1 and I love the view from there although my son wants to move into G2.

If they put SS in G1 I'd not be bothered about moving but you can bet there'd be plenty who'd be really annoyed to be made to move.

Posted a new topic on the view from G1 but just noticed this - I'm relocating from family stand and could only get 6 seats together in G1. Row K - around seat number 70 - do you know if that is looking down the goal line or is it looking diagonally out across the pitch?

[davieG]

18 minutes ago, Rob H said:

Posted a new topic on the view from G1 but just noticed this - I'm relocating from family stand and could only get 6 seats together in G1. Row K - around seat number 70 - do you know if that is looking down the goal line or is it looking diagonally out across the pitch?

Both really, we're butted up to where the KOP starts so we get a view across the penalty area and across the pitch.

 

It's all down to personal preferences so don't take my word for it. You need to go down and ask them to try the seats out.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Really positive discussions in Parliament yesterday. Tracey Crouch confirmed there would be a review and is commissioning research by the end of the year. 

 

The MPs that attended were all apparently very well educated and a lot of them thanked their constituents and Supporter groups for being so tenacious in their campaigning. 

 

It inches closer again 

[Rob H]

15 minutes ago, davieG said:

Both really, we're butted up to where the KOP starts so we get a view across the penalty area and across the pitch.

 

It's all down to personal preferences so don't take my word for it. You need to go down and ask them to try the seats out.

Thanks mate - we had no choice if we wanted to sit together, there were only singles/pairs available behind the goal. Gutted because we had great seats in the kop when they built the ground, moved to family stand in great seats when the kids were little 10 years ago but we've effectively been tipped out now they are too old. Can't work out seat numbering - we've got 70 upwards - do you know what number they start at where it joins SK1?

Edited 26 June 2018 by Rob H
Meant SK1

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, Rob H said:

Thanks mate - we had no choice if we wanted to sit together, there were only singles/pairs available behind the goal. Gutted because we had great seats in the kop when they built the ground, moved to family stand in great seats when the kids were little 10 years ago but we've effectively been tipped out now they are too old. Can't work out seat numbering - we've got 70 upwards - do you know what number they start at where it joins SK1?

 

It's hard to tell because of the curve and how far up you are we're 61/62 and i sit next to the kop barrier

[Golden Fox]

Having signed up to the petition, I had the following email this morning:

Quote

 

Parliament debated the petition you signed – “Allow Premier League and Championship football clubs to introduce safe standing”

Watch the debate: http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/7860c4f1-7b1e-49da-84c8-5ffe5917515f

Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-06-25/debates/8A09C8B2-14D5-4E2D-8F3E-1D7FF3838818/FootballSafeStanding

Read the research: https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CDP-2018-0147

The petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

It was interesting reading the transcript of the debate: much of it is rather petty and embarrassing "I support this club..." "I have a story about football" and at 2 and a half hours painfully long.

 

However virtually every speaker was pro-standing, with the exception of about 2 objectors: as would be expected, quoted Hillsborough's families. However, in response to this, it was subsequently noted that "The Hillsborough Justice Campaign has not taken an official position on standing at football grounds" which is why it is frustrating to see people putting words into their mouths.

 

However well worth reading Tracy Crouch's comments at the end. She seems well informed, and aware of all the safety implications: her turning down of WBA was purely on the basis that there was no legal option for a pilot (and her choice of words were poor which she regretted).

 

She does seem open to reviewing the process, but it just looks painful to make changes to the law - there need to be external reviews, studies and reports and then more debates etc, but it looks as though these will all be happening.

 

However, the biggest issue I see is seemingly the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. The all-seater approach has been so widely adopted by FIFA and UEFA that it is now the standard for all big competitions, so the idea of actively changing the law away from that seems like a backward step.

 

But the fact that the petition gained the required number of signatures, and the fact that this debate has happened and was seemingly open to the arguments does look to indicate a shift in the perception of this, so as...

On 26/06/2018 at 11:17, Sol thewall Bamba said:

It inches closer again 

 

[Mike the Metal Ed]

I remember listening to then-sports minister Hugh Robertson being interviewed on Today one morning in 2011, and his argument basically amounted to "There's no call for standing areas at football grounds", no further questions, end of, at a time when hundreds of fans were visibly standing in front of seats at grounds. He hadn't seen that, he hadn't listened, he didn't care. Labour still opposed safe standing, following on from policy from when they were the previous government, afraid of upsetting their Merseyside heartland. When Don Foster introduced a Ten Minute Rule motion to bring in a bill on safe standing, the second reading was twice delayed until the after the end of that Parliament, killing it without so much as a meaningful vote. 

 

We've come so far these past few years, keeping it on the agenda until finally, the Tories are ready to at least look into it, and Labour are actively introducing safe standing as policy. Good work from everyone who kept the pressure on.

[UniFox21]

FA backs safe-standing proposals in Premier League and Championship - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45341192

Big step forward here, the FA backing it for both Prem and Championship clubs to use

[Voll Blau]

Fewer and fewer excuses for LCFC not to have a public position on this now.

Edited 29 August 2018 by Voll Blau

[Guest Markyblue]

Really hope you get standing back. Personally I sit but surely there's room for a standing area to the kp with the expansion coming. Good luck. 

[Izzy]

I watched the Man Utd v Spurs match on Monday and it looked like everyone in the Strettford End was standing.

There was also a picture of Leeds fans in a crumpled pile at Norwich after they scored on Saturday with a poor Steward crushed at the bottom.

Loads of fans want to stand so let's make it safe for them FFS

[Harry - LCFC]

We've been making progress for years but it feels like our campaign has really gathered pace in the last 12-18 months.

LCFC and the government should seriously reconsider their position on this.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

More changes coming from the Sports Grounds Safety Authority soon leaving massive gaping holes in the existing legislation 

[Bunyip]

Can somebody explain what anyone gets out of standing? I mean does it make the game better? can you see more ?  do you feel less controlled? Just what is wrong with sitting down for goodness sake.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

6 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Can somebody explain what anyone gets out of standing? I mean does it make the game better? can you see more ?  do you feel less controlled? Just what is wrong with sitting down for goodness sake.

Why do you have an issue? I have no issues with you or anyone else sitting down so why do you want to deny me the opportunity to watch the game how I want to? 

[Ted Maul]

6 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Can somebody explain what anyone gets out of standing? I mean does it make the game better? can you see more ?  do you feel less controlled? Just what is wrong with sitting down for goodness sake.

Nothing, if that's how you want to view the game. Safe standing wouldn't interfere with that either, there will still be a majority of seating sections in the ground. Some of us like to stand, sing, get more involved and experience better atmospheres- not sure why any football fan is intent on getting in the way of that when it won't affect them in any way whatsoever, but there you go.

[yorkie1999]

6 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Can somebody explain what anyone gets out of standing? I mean does it make the game better? can you see more ?  do you feel less controlled? Just what is wrong with sitting down for goodness sake.

Ever been to a rock/pop concert and stood up to watch and join in, well the join in bit is the key phrase.

[goose2010]

So say if the FA and Government allow it in the premier league, what is the next step? To get the clubs to get folk out to change their seating to rail seats? don't you think this is where you are going to hit a brick wall? I think the premier league will allow it eventually but the biggest issue surely is the then getting the club to install surly? Why would they when they already sell out the stadium?

This is not me being negative at all its more is there any plan if stage 1 (allowing safe standing in the premier league) gets approved for how stage 2 (getting the clubs to convert) will be implemented?

[Bunyip]

20 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Why do you have an issue? I have no issues with you or anyone else sitting down so why do you want to deny me the opportunity to watch the game how I want to? 

You do realise it was a question, not an issue?

[Bunyip]

16 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Ever been to a rock/pop concert and stood up to watch and join in, well the join in bit is the key phrase.

Go back to why standing was banned in the first place is the real key phrase.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

3 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

You do realise it was a question, not an issue?

Ok, becasue I enjoy myself more when I stand up. That's all the justification I need to give you. 

Now please, answer my question