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bovril

Unpopular Opinions You Hold

By bovril, in General Chat

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Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Religion, far from being a force for good, is the biggest threat to humanity and World peace.

 

And the chief threat among them is not Islam but Christianity.

Definitely agree.

 

As for the second part I do agree that Christianity is a bigger threat than Islam (and it quite possibly has been for a long long time).

 

BUT I don't see the biggest threat as a particular religion (christianity), I see the biggest threat as "religious" people against other religions (and non religious people). 

 

Does that make sense?

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bovril

bovril

Posted
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Posted
1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Religion, far from being a force for good, is the biggest threat to humanity and World peace.

 

And the chief threat among them is not Islam but Christianity.

I think nationalism is a greater threat personally. The most destructive wars of the 20th century were not fought over religion. 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, FIF said:

Definitely agree.

 

As for the second part I do agree that Christianity is a bigger threat than Islam (and it quite possibly has been for a long long time).

 

BUT I don't see the biggest threat as a particular religion (christianity), I see the biggest threat as "religious" people against other religions (and non religious people). 

 

Does that make sense?

 

It makes sense, and I largely agree, but there is a reason why Christianity is specifically a threat, and that is because the most powerful nation in the world (politically, economically and militarily) - the USA - is largely controlled by fundamentalist Christians who believe in the Rapture. They are disproportionately ensconced in the higher levels of Trump's administration (Pence and Pompeo are both Evangelical fundamentalists) and he is increasingly reliant on them as a support base. One of the key preconditions for the Rapture is the return of the Jewish people to the 'Holy Land' (an area greater than the current borders of modern-day Israel) and is the main driver of Middle Eastern foreign policy, in which they see Iran as representing Satan. These people actually relish the idea of Armageddon (in precisely the same way that fundamentalist Muslims welcome martyrdom - something greeted with scorn on here and in the West generally) because they believe on the day of the Rapture only they will ascend to Heaven. One of the invited speakers at Trump's inauguration preaches that Hitler was part of God's plan to encourage the Jews to return to Israel. These are seriously dangerous people, to whom the capricious man-child is increasingly drawn.

Edited by Buce
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Guest MattP

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Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Buce said:

It makes sense, and I largely agree, but there is a reason why Christianity is specifically a threat, and that is because the most powerful nation in the world (politically, economically and militarily) - the USA - is largely controlled by fundamentalist Christians who believe in the Rapture. They are disproportionately ensconced in the higher levels of Trump's administration (Pence and Pompeo are both Evangelical fundamentalists) and he is increasingly reliant on them as a support base. One of the key preconditions for the Rapture is the return of the Jewish people to the 'Holy Land' (an area greater than the current borders of modern-day Israel) and is the main driver of Middle Eastern foreign policy, in which they see Iran as representing Satan. These people actually relish the idea of Armageddon (in precisely the same way that fundamentalist Muslims welcome martyrdom - something greeted with scorn on here and in the West generally) because they believe on the day of the Rapture only they will ascend to Heaven. One of the invited speakers at Trump's inauguration preaches that Hitler was part of God's plan to encourage the Jews to return to Israel. These are seriously dangerous people, to whom the capricious man-child is increasingly drawn.

Who was that? I'd like to read about it.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, MattP said:

Who was that? I'd like to read about it.

Perhaps I'm treading on Buce's toes here, but that I believe is one Robert Jeffress, who led the prayer on the morning of the inauguration (though I don't think he was part of the ceremony himself).

 

There's no denying the link between this current administration and the evangelists, though.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

It makes sense, and I largely agree, but there is a reason why Christianity is specifically a threat, and that is because the most powerful nation in the world (politically, economically and militarily) - the USA - is largely controlled by fundamentalist Christians who believe in the Rapture. They are disproportionately ensconced in the higher levels of Trump's administration (Pence and Pompeo are both Evangelical fundamentalists) and he is increasingly reliant on them as a support base. One of the key preconditions for the Rapture is the return of the Jewish people to the 'Holy Land' (an area greater than the current borders of modern-day Israel) and is the main driver of Middle Eastern foreign policy, in which they see Iran as representing Satan. These people actually relish the idea of Armageddon (in precisely the same way that fundamentalist Muslims welcome martyrdom - something greeted with scorn on here and in the West generally) because they believe on the day of the Rapture only they will ascend to Heaven. One of the invited speakers at Trump's inauguration preaches that Hitler was part of God's plan to encourage the Jews to return to Israel. These are seriously dangerous people, to whom the capricious man-child is increasingly drawn.

 

I see your point here, though I don't know enough about the ideas / Middle East policy of US Christian fundamentalists, Pence or Pompeo to opine on the scale of the threat.

 

On the more general issue of religion, as a convinced atheist myself, I'd recommend "Religion for Atheists" by Alain de Botton to anyone who wants to challenge their thinking:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Religion-Atheists-non-believers-guide-religion/dp/0141046317

Religion has a lot of good ideas and does a lot of good, as well as being misguided on the science and having done an awful lot of harm (or at least those advocating particular religious interpretations have done a lot of harm). Even as an atheist, I'm not convinced swapping religion for materialist consumerism has been a great idea.

 

Assuming that US Christian fundamentalists do NOT destabilise global politics, cause a civilisation-destroying conflagration in the Middle East and/or bring about Armageddon (I'm optimistic about such things - possibly naively).....

 

I see unreformed capitalism in the era of globalisation as a bigger threat in the medium-term, particularly when combined with an upsurge in nationalism, climate change and shifts in global power balances.

That's not an attack on capitalism in general, which has simultaneously powered great material/social progress and great misery/social disruption. I'm referring more to this particular stage and form of capitalism, which has created a global society that is destroying the environment and climate, burning through resources, disrupting societies, destroying lives - and generally creating the conditions for the breakdown of human civilisation on a global scale, unless it can be reformed in the next few decades. Add in the likelihood of a much greater growth in nationalism, things look tricky...........

 

But maybe you're right and Trump & co will get there first. You can almost imagine Trump being egotistical enough to enjoy "going down in history" as the man who destroyed human civilisation (er, slight problem with that Donald!), even if it is only his right-hand men who truly believe in the cause (Trump may declare himself to be a Christian, but his convictions must be shallow as hell - he's all about narcissism and capital gains).

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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

I don’t really like Andy Murray.

I didn't to begin with, but I've definately warmed to him over the years.

 

One thing that changed my mind about him was when I realised what a huge impact the Dunblane massacre had on him as a kid. The fact he knew the gunman and he'd given him lifts in his car etc. beforehand. God knows how you come to terms with that so young.

 

Listening to the tributes yesterday I didn't realise how much he's given back to kids tennis and how much he's done to promote equality. Just reading what his fellows pro's have to say about him suggests he's highly liked and highly respected.

 

I know he comes across as a 'dour scott' sometimes but he also takes the piss out of himself about it which suggests he's got a SOH.

 

I think he's a genuine bloke and I like the way he shows his vulnerability in public. Good luck to him I say...

 

Edited by Izzy
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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I didn't to begin with, but I've definately warmed to him over the years.

 

One thing that changed my mind about him was when I realised what a huge impact the Dunblane massacre had on him as a kid. The fact he knew the gunman and he'd given him lifts in his car etc. beforehand. God knows how you come to terms with that so young.

 

Listening to the tributes yesterday I didn't realise how much he's given back to kids tennis and how much he's done to promote equality. Just reading what his fellows pro's have to say about him suggests he's highly liked and highly respected.

 

I know he comes across as a 'dour scott' sometimes but he also takes the piss out of himself about it which suggests he's got a SOH.

 

I think he's a genuine bloke and I like the way he shows his vulnerability in public. Good luck to him I say...

 

 

Agree with you 100% Muzzett ...   perhaps I should have said as a sportsman not a human being ...   too much of a whining ‘I’m Scottish not British’ misery chops for me ...  

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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Agree with you 100% Muzzett ...   perhaps I should have said as a sportsman not a human being ...   too much of a whining ‘I’m Scottish not British’ misery chops for me ...  

Fair enough mate, I know a lot of people think the same. Apparently the "anyone but the English" thing he said was meant in jest but he's been tarred with it ever since and some people won't forgive him for it!!

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Fair enough mate, I know a lot of people think the same. Apparently the "anyone but the English" thing he said was meant in jest but he's been tarred with it ever since and some people won't forgive him for it!!

 

Never did get the said in jest thing ..   if you say it you say it ...     but it’s mainly that he’s such a miserable cvnt ...   :)

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SouthStandUpperTier

SouthStandUpperTier

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Agree with you 100% Muzzett ...   perhaps I should have said as a sportsman not a human being ...   too much of a whining ‘I’m Scottish not British’ misery chops for me ...  

I always got the impression, especially during Olympics and Davis Cup, that he was proud to be Scottish AND British. 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Never did get the said in jest thing ..   if you say it you say it ...     but it’s mainly that he’s such a miserable cvnt ...   :)

 

That seems like an odd thing to believe.

 

Do you never say anything in jest?

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

That seems like an odd thing to believe.

 

Do you never say anything in jest?

 

All the time Bucey ...    and if it offends I always say ...   it was only a joke mate ...

 

Anyway ..   the suns out and I need to catch a few rays and read the papers before the match ...   :thumbup:

 

 

44FD2AD1-6B7F-4538-A6F8-9EB503BCD881.jpeg

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