Portugal's radical drug policy is working...

[sylofox]

15 hours ago, toddybad said:

Personally I'd take a tougher line than we currently do as I fundamentally disagree with the idea cannabis does no damage. Life sentence for supplying, minimum 5 years for dealing, significant money into enforcement.

I'd also completely ban tobacco.

Don't worry, I'll allow you alcohol though!

While your at it why not put tax on breathing and sex.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Bryn said:

As a fundamental point of principle I agree with Toddy. I think the notion that drugs aren't harmful is bollocks. They are. Some of them might be less harmful of alcohol, which makes a mockery of the law, but they are still harmful and the people producing and supplying them are still *****. Even if cocaine was legal, the coca still has to come from somewhere pretty dodge.

 

That said, the evidence that legalisation reduces the societal and public health impact of drugs is really quite compelling.

Sugar is harmful, curry powder is harmful, in fact most products are harmful.

 

Education is the only way forward and no-one wants to listen to those left wingers preaching.

[Lionator]

The most important point in the article is that Portugal doesn't view drugs as damaging, rather it's peoples relationships with drugs which is what should be scrutinised. Alcohol isn't harmful if you drink in moderation, cannabis isn't harmful if you fancy a spliff every couple of weeks to help you chill out, ecstasy isn't harmful if you test what's in your pill before you take it and you only take it once in a while. They become harmful when they start to affect people's everyday life. If you need alcohol to help you sleep, then it's harmful, if you need cannabis to relax then it's harmful, if you take ecstasy everytime you hear Step on by the Happy Mondays then it's harmful. What Portugal does is focus on those relationships whereas pretty much all other governments take the easy option of just banning these substances so that they don't have to worry about underlying causes as to why people abuse drugs because in the majority of addicts there is something else going on which leads them to drugs.

[lifted*fox]

7 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

Whether cannabis is legalised or decriminalised, for me their still needs to be controls. I don't want to be going parks and other public places with my kids that are stinking of weed, the other week at my kids football training the people waiting to use the pitch after us were smoking, god knows how much, but the smell blowing across the football pitch was that strong that the kids were moaning, asking what the smell was and complaining that it was making them feel sick. Whatever they decide in the future there needs to be consideration to social responsibility. 

 

Many years ago when I used to smoke it a lot we used to discuss this, and I think decriminalisation would be better, which would allow it to be policed sensibly, and would encourage respectful usage by the users.

 

It is still frowned upon to smoke weed on the streets of Amsterdam, for example. On the many occasions I've been you very rarely see people smoking in the streets - the coffeeshops and people's homes are sufficient smoking spaces. It's not illegal but 'Amsterdammers' will look down upon you and the police will most likely ask you to put it out. 

 

You do occasionally smell people smoking a spliff in the park but that is the same the world over - legal or not. People just like a spliff in the park.

 

But yes, I agree to an extent - we should look to follow the Amsterdam model if we legalise, IMO. 

[Christoph]

The only reason we even have a war on drugs was so Nixon could go after black people (heroin) and hippies (weed) for his political gain. It was never an issue in the past and still isn't now. Why allow criminals to become rich. You only have to see the amount of tax created from weed in the USA to see the benefits. You can use that tax to service drug rehabilitation programmes etc. 

[Bryn]

6 hours ago, FIF said:

Sugar is harmful, curry powder is harmful, in fact most products are harmful.

 

Education is the only way forward and no-one wants to listen to those left wingers preaching.

 

I don't think making a bold unsubstantiated claim like cannabis causes zero deaths is any smarter than saying it causes millions of deaths, neither claim is conducive to a rational and evidence based discussion.

 

As I've already said, I find the evidence of favour of legalisation compelling, especially as someone who is actually dealing with victims of drug abuse face to face. 

 

If people could stop being so dogmatic in their views and acknowledge that all actions have consequences even if they are right in principle maybe we'd progress further as a society.

[thebartonfox]

The other issue of course is the numourous medical benefits to cannabis. While the formal research into it is limited by its legal status, it’s known to help with a huge range of things. 

 

For example it has use as an incredibly effective painkiller, which is what I use it for. Since starting I’ve enormously cut down on codiene, which I needed every few hours to manage chronic pain. Not only is a small dose of weed more effective than codiene (and more effective than anything shy of morphine for me), with a small dose of weed I can still be productive while the codiene often makes me to woozy to work. It also encourages an appetite, which I struggle with due to pain, and helps me sleep, which the pain also disturbs. As an added bonus I’ve also not had a migraine since using it, which I’d normally have at least once a fortnight. A friend also uses it as a painkiller to deal with her highly debilitating back pain, as nothing else she’s ever tried has helped. 

 

It’s also useful for epilepsy, helping people deal with the effects of chemotherapy, MS, arthritis, glaucoma, and it can help with PTSD.

 

Yes it can be abused, and yes I do believe it should be controlled. But why it should be completely illegal when it has the potential to help so many people really winds me up. I shouldn’t be made to feel like a criminal because I need effective pain relief, it’s just wrong. I’m currently working abroad and my health has taken such a dive since having to switch back to just codiene, I’m in constant pain that is so bad I’m struggling to walk at times, I’m struggling to sleep I’m in so much pain, and I haven’t been able to eat at all today I feel so ill. Feeling like this has reminded me just what a powerful medicine cannabis is, as what I’m experiencing at the moment was a regular occurrence until I started using it.

 

I feel that there has been no significant negative effect on me since starting, aside from maybe a slight decrease in my short term memory (and the cost of it...), I use it in a vaporiser to limit the harm to my lungs, and very rarely get properly high with it. Used responsibly, it can do amazing things for people. But, in all of societies wisdom, me and many others have to break the law. It’s just not right. 

 

Rant over. 

 

[Guest MattP]

Cheers guys, this has been an interesting read.

 

Still probably the one big issue I'm torn on, the idea of raising far more money for the treasury which is much needed is certainly extremely attractive, my own anecdotal evidence would be anti as I've seen the drug ruin a good friend - there is a personal freedom aspect though here as well, I do believe people should be free to do what they want with their own bodies and minds providing they don't expect everyone else to pick up the bill if it does make them ill or insane.

 

I do absolutely hate the argument put forward that "alcohol is worse" and that's legal, the reasoning has to be better than that, the only reason alcohol is legal is because it is ingrained in the culture over time - if we had never heard of alcohol and it came out today it would been banned within months as people watched peaceful town centres turn into the places they do on a Saturday night.

 

My personal concerns around legalisation would be.....

 

Could the government make it profitable and/or would private suppliers still be able to do it cheaper?

Can we guarantee it wouldn't lead to an increase in people with mental health problems (NHS direct says this is the case if you smoke it for a long time)

It wouldn't become "normal" to smoke it, as others have mentioned it should be looked down on in public and I certainly wouldn't want to have to smell the stuff every night in beer gardens as it is disgusting.

 

If those could be addressed I'd be happy to consider it, we've effectively legalised it in all but name anyway just without the state selling it. It would be a massive decision though for a government to go against the advice of it's own health service on such a crucial issue.