Crypto Currencies : ponzi or legit

[RobHawk]

15 minutes ago, FIF said:

It's not going to fill any void. It'll all end in tears for many.

Of course it will end in tears for many! They put money into something they don't understand and then are surprised when things go tits up.

Crypto-currencies are going nowhere though. They are the future, not because of the currency per say, but the tech thats behind them. 

Best example from a trading point of view is the internet - remember when the .com bubble burst, alot of people lost a lot of money! Internets still around though yeah, used by more and more people. Getting faster and faster. 

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

You can buy as much or as little bitcoin as you like. Its not like you need £15,000 to buy a whole coin. 

People will use it, and it will fill the void because all you need is internet access and it will not depreciate like a tanking national currency. Turning to the likes of bitcoin is what will finish the currency off IMHO. Then it will fill the void. 

Things like bitcoin ATM's and Bitcoin methods of online payment are already available - Its just a matter of time.

BUT - like i said originally, we are 100% in bubble territory now, simply because no-one is spending it. 

Ok, but how does Bitcoin come into it as an alternative?  Surely it would be easier and more practical to substitute USD in as a buffer.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Ok, but how does Bitcoin come into it as an alternative?  Surely it would be easier and more practical to substitute USD in as a buffer.

Some people just want to believe that an anarchic currency can succeed. For me the reason that it has been created is the reason that it cannot succeed. And then of course we have litecoin, namecoin, swiftcoin, doge, gridcoin, omni, prime, ripple, dash, monero, etherium, IOTE, Zcash and another 20 or more crpytocurrencies.

[Benguin]

I don't understand them so therefore I don't trust them. 

[whoareyaaa]

40 minutes ago, FIF said:

Some people just want to believe that an anarchic currency can succeed. For me the reason that it has been created is the reason that it cannot succeed. And then of course we have litecoin, namecoin, swiftcoin, doge, gridcoin, omni, prime, ripple, dash, monero, etherium, IOTE, Zcash and another 20 or more crpytocurrencies.

Asian markets are having a massive impact on the price of bitcoin and all other crypto currencies will become irrelevant as most are selling and buying into bitcoin pushing the value up even further... there is no evidence to suggest its will burst and banks are moving into the market.

[howlinmadmurfdoc]

I think most of the money to be made in bitcoin has already been made. Now every man and his dog is trying to sell it on Facebook  a la juice plus and all those cosmetic brands it’s only going to end in tears.

[RobHawk]

3 hours ago, howlinmadmurfdoc said:

I think most of the money to be made in bitcoin has already been made. Now every man and his dog is trying to sell it on Facebook  a la juice plus and all those cosmetic brands it’s only going to end in tears.

Its a currency not an MLM scheme

[RobHawk]

19 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Ok, but how does Bitcoin come into it as an alternative?  Surely it would be easier and more practical to substitute USD in as a buffer.

Why would it be easier and more practical to convert to USD?

Bitcoin is alot more transparent than other currencies and is not controlled by any country or company. I would say the exact opposite to what you have said and that is exactly why bitcoin will fill the void. 

 

19 hours ago, FIF said:

Some people just want to believe that an anarchic currency can succeed. For me the reason that it has been created is the reason that it cannot succeed. And then of course we have litecoin, namecoin, swiftcoin, doge, gridcoin, omni, prime, ripple, dash, monero, etherium, IOTE, Zcash and another 20 or more crpytocurrencies.

If enough people see value in something it can be used as currency, whether thats £, $, gold, cows, potatoes or crypto currencies. 

There are numerous currencies and many will fail, but theres many "conventional" currencies too - so i'm not sure on your point here?
 

[howlinmadmurfdoc]

51 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

Its a currency not an MLM scheme

I’m aware that it’s a currency, I’m also aware there are loads of people on Facebook who don’t know how to find their arse with both hands making out they’re brokers. This is contributing to the current upturn in price, but surely it’s a bubble that has to burst eventually.

[RobHawk]

48 minutes ago, howlinmadmurfdoc said:

I’m aware that it’s a currency, I’m also aware there are loads of people on Facebook who don’t know how to find their arse with both hands making out they’re brokers. This is contributing to the current upturn in price, but surely it’s a bubble that has to burst eventually.

Oh yeah, we are in bubble territory right now without a doubt. And your right there are some douchebags that are now "Bitcoin Experts". 

Realistically theres no such thing, this is a seismic shift in currency like we have never seen before, so nobody can be sure what will happen. 

I've done alot of research and have made my conclusions which i have shared in the thread - but i could be very very wrong and thats true of every person who makes any sort of comment on the topic. 

[James.]

"Experts" called this a bubble that was about to burst when it was at around $4,000 (when I bought it). Back then being bullish meant thinking it would get to $10,000 within a couple of years. It's now > $17,000. The reality is no one knows what will happen as we have seen nothing like this before.

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, James. said:

"Experts" called this a bubble that was about to burst when it was at around $4,000 (when I bought it). Back then being bullish meant thinking it would get to $10,000 within a couple of years. It's now > $17,000. The reality is no one knows what will happen as we have seen nothing like this before.

What price will you sell at James, just as a matter of interest?

[RobHawk]

1 hour ago, James. said:

"Experts" called this a bubble that was about to burst when it was at around $4,000 (when I bought it). Back then being bullish meant thinking it would get to $10,000 within a couple of years. It's now > $17,000. The reality is no one knows what will happen as we have seen nothing like this before.

We got in at a similar time - you bought any other coins?

We are in bubble territory but how far it goes before a pop is anyone's guess. 

[Carl the Llama]

3 hours ago, RobHawk said:

Why would it be easier and more practical to convert to USD?

Bitcoin is alot more transparent than other currencies and is not controlled by any country or company. I would say the exact opposite to what you have said and that is exactly why bitcoin will fill the void. 

Well for one thing dollars are something you can physically pass between each other.  Can you seriously imagine a street market in smalltown Nigeria functioning off of people's cyber-wallets?  When I was in Zambia a few years back the Kwacha was in freefall and everybody there happily traded in USD instead, dunno if it's still the same there now but I imagine that's an easier thing to do than have everybody start using a currency restricted to the digital world, requiring all of these people in 3rd world countries to own computers or smartphones and have reliable internet access before they can even participate in the economy.  Perhaps some time in the distant future you will be proven right but it's not a practical solution right now.

Edited 13 December 2017 by Carl the Llama

[Rogstanley]

There are quite a few countries that use USD as a de facto currency due to domestic currency issues and I don't know what incentive exists to get them to swap to Bitcoin. As I said earlier it seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.

[RobHawk]

12 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well for one thing dollars are something you can physically pass between each other.  Can you seriously imagine a street market in smalltown Nigeria functioning off of people's cyber-wallets?  When I was in Zambia a few years back the Kwacha was in freefall and everybody there happily traded in USD instead, dunno if it's still the same there now but I imagine that's an easier thing to do than have everybody start using a currency restricted to the digital world, requiring all of these people in 3rd world countries to own computers or smartphones and have reliable internet access before they can even participate in the economy.  Perhaps some time in the distant future you will be proven right but it's not a practical solution right now.

You can use bitcoin via VISA. Theres no physical monty like with USD but VISA is pretty universally accepted around the world. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

53 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

What price will you sell at James, just as a matter of interest?

This @James.

[RobHawk]

John McAfee vows to eat his dick on live TV if bitcoin doesn't hit $1million by 2020 

[Carl the Llama]

32 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

You can use bitcoin via VISA. Theres no physical monty like with USD but VISA is pretty universally accepted around the world. 

You're confusing "accepted" and "logistically practical".

[RobHawk]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

You're confusing "accepted" and "logistically practical".

OK, lets see. I may be wrong - who knows. 

Only time will tell

[Carl the Llama]

4 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

OK, lets see. I may be wrong - who knows. 

Only time will tell

Do you honestly not understand that electronic money isn't as practical in a 3rd world economy as it is in a developed nation like ours?  I mean even here in England lots of people rely on cash or simply don't have the means to commit to a fully digital currency, how do you expect all of Nigeria to do it?  In the far flung future when literally everybody on the planet is online and literally every financial transaction all the way down to buying apples at a market stall is made electronically you may be proven right but before then it simply won't be feasible to dispense with physical cash and run Bitcoin as a primary currency and I'd be very surprised if either of us were alive to see it presuming that's even the solution when it happens and we don't simply continue trading in existing major currencies 

 

I'm not arguing against the benefits you see in it, I'm arguing that the infrastructure doesn't exist for it to be practicable on the scale you imagine.

[RobHawk]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Do you honestly not understand that electronic money isn't as practical in a 3rd world economy as it is in a developed nation like ours?  I mean even here in England lots of people rely on cash or simply don't have the means to commit to a fully digital currency, how do you expect all of Nigeria to do it?  In the far flung future when literally everybody on the planet is online and literally every financial transaction all the way down to buying apples at a market stall is made electronically you may be proven right but before then it simply won't be feasible to dispense with physical cash and run Bitcoin as a primary currency and I'd be very surprised if either of us were alive to see it presuming that's even the solution when it happens and we don't simply continue trading in existing major currencies 

 

I'm not arguing against the benefits you see in it, I'm arguing that the infrastructure doesn't exist for it to be practicable on the scale you imagine.

I 100% see your point. But the same would have been said about Nigerians accessing the Internet 20 years ago.

 

The world is changing fast, and I believe that crypto has a huge part to play in its future. Do I think it will happen in 2018? Hell no, but who knows where we might be by 2025.

 

if 10 years ago I'd have told you that the likes of uber and Airb&b would be so big without actually owning anything, you wouldn't have believed that either.

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

I 100% see your point. But the same would have been said about Nigerians accessing the Internet 20 years ago.

 

The world is changing fast, and I believe that crypto has a huge part to play in its future. Do I think it will happen in 2018? Hell no, but who knows where we might be by 2025.

 

if 10 years ago I'd have told you that the likes of uber and Airb&b would be so big without actually owning anything, you wouldn't have believed that either.

I'd probably have been dubious that Uber would become quite as big as they are, you're right, I wouldn't have seen why people would turn to it instead of a local private hire company (in many ways I still don't and I gotta say that down here in Cambridge the 2 big local taxi firms - CamCab and Panther Cabs - still seem to be ubiquitous, I reckon Uber has a ways to go to be competitive in this particular local market but that's pure guesswork I know nothing of the figures) but they do own something:  They own the software that makes it all possible.  Profiting off software in some way, shape or form is not an unusual business model in the digital age and has been happening since the early days of computers before the world wide web was even a thing, though I will concede that Uber is a particularly innovative way of doing so. 

 

I'm far less surprised by AirB&B:  Back before the internet was everywhere home exchanges used to be a very popular way of holidaying on the cheap, I can remember my parents leafing through huge booklets of houses each year in search of homes in far off places whose tenants were looking to swap with an English family for a few weeks.  AirB&B erased the need for that, it has brought that attitude towards holiday cost-saving into the digital age and as long as the website and booking software worked and the customer service was passable they were always onto a winner (providing they didn't get out-competed by equivalent websites).

 

Bitcoin I simply don't see being practical in the same way as those examples, not for a good many year anyway.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, RobHawk said:

Oh yeah, we are in bubble territory right now without a doubt. And your right there are some douchebags that are now "Bitcoin Experts". 

Realistically theres no such thing, this is a seismic shift in currency like we have never seen before, so nobody can be sure what will happen. 

I've done alot of research and have made my conclusions which i have shared in the thread - but i could be very very wrong and thats true of every person who makes any sort of comment on the topic. 

So you won't mind if I think that you are very wrong.

 

People with bitcoin are simply gambling and gamblers rarely win - even those that got Leicester at 5000-1. But of course anyone who has got bitcoin needs to talk it up because otherwise they'll lose their investment.

 

Statistics also show that most of the bitcoin owners are people in their teens and 20's.

[RobHawk]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

So you won't mind if I think that you are very wrong.

 

People with bitcoin are simply gambling and gamblers rarely win - even those that got Leicester at 5000-1. But of course anyone who has got bitcoin needs to talk it up because otherwise they'll lose their investment.

 

Statistics also show that most of the bitcoin owners are people in their teens and 20's.

Well im not in my teens or twenties, and if you read my posts on here i've been agreeing that people shouldn't buy it right now.

As for gambling, i'm into matched betting so rarely lose! 

BUT, I 100% respect your right to disagree with me  And for the record have loved the discussion in the thread - been ages since i posted so much.